697 réponses à ce sujet

[UnknownMercenary]

I noticed I was dropping a lot more off-host, when shield/health gate used to save me.

I did some solo attempts today and noticed the shield and health gates working as intended, so I'm inclined to believe it's a lag issue.

[Sable Dove]

Why exactly do you reduce the gate times so drastically in higher difficulties? Since on Gold/Platinum most enemies already do so much damage that they hit each gate with a single shot, all reducing the gate time does is make the basic troopers into murder-machines while the bosses and heavies get trivialized.

I mean, it takes about 2 seconds for Primes, Scions, Atlas, Ravagers, etc. to kill you on gold, but a single Marauder will kill you from half the map away in less than half a second.

You should pick one: Enemies do ridiculous amounts of damage with 95% accuracy at any range on higher difficulties, or they do slightly more, and gate time is reduced. Not both.

[MattLeft99]

Once you look for it, it seems easy to point out what the problem (at least the end result) is. As far as the computer/coding math crap, no idea. Whether "lag" is the word to use or not, I don't know. Lag used to be a noticeable, definable thing. This seems, instead, to be stealth lag. Hidden delay. Maybe it's a result of the vanguard fix?

Basically, as you run around shootin' & lootin' it is a common site to see badguys in your visual field, shooting their guns. Maybe you're awesomely doing a serpentine maneuver, maybe they're shooting at one of your buddies, whatever. What triggers your "Oh, ****e! Time to dodge/find cover/focus on that baddie" reaction is when said badguy starts shooting YOU. With this stealth delay now in the game, what seems to be happening is the Assault Trooper or Cannibal has actually been blazing away at you on full auto for a whole second (or .05 second or whatever), before it registers on your side of the computer screen.

Examples high-lighting probable evidence of this have been mentioned in this thread. When you die, you suddenly zip back (still dead) to where you were a second ago. Also, since the patch, have you noticed that when you kill a Brute heading your way, it's collapsing corpse flickers forward much closer to where it seemed to be?

Stealth delay (trademark pending).

[Daihannya]

Outrider42 wrote...

Here is how the game has become harder folks:

While so many adjustments have been made to stop camping, the problem is that so many of the mission objectives REQUIRE players to in fact camp a little. The activation and hack objectives are 10x harder than before because the enemies all have ways to force you out of the zone. Activations are getting ridiculous, one player simply cannot afford to sit defenseless for the amount of time required to activate something anymore. New enemies like Dragoons can rush right up to you in no time flat, Scions bomb you from across the map, geth bombers dive over head. This makes any activation harder, and even more so when the location is out in the open.

I just don't think Bioware thought this through. Its fine to discourage camping, but when your missions require players to hold a spot, you have to be very careful about how you do that. Dragoons need to be less aggressive. Phantoms will sometimes run away if they take damage, why don't Dragoons? And the entire Collector faction is just wack. They are superior to the reapers in every possible way, from their upgraded exploding husks to Scions which are much more powerful than brutes and ravangers combined, to their upgraded seekers over swarmers. Getting hit by seekers and loosing your cooldown is fatal for a power dependent class, not to mention they screw over the Fury with her AF.

Something needs to be done to make these objectives a bit easier for players. What if having multiple people activate the same object sped up the timer?

This has nothing to do with the new factions/enemies.  This issue showed up before Retaliation.  The patch right before Retaliation was released.  Basically when/how you die seems to be more senstive than before.    

[UpirNoir]

Daihannya wrote...

Outrider42 wrote...

Here is how the game has become harder folks:

While so many adjustments have been made to stop camping, the problem is that so many of the mission objectives REQUIRE players to in fact camp a little. The activation and hack objectives are 10x harder than before because the enemies all have ways to force you out of the zone. Activations are getting ridiculous, one player simply cannot afford to sit defenseless for the amount of time required to activate something anymore. New enemies like Dragoons can rush right up to you in no time flat, Scions bomb you from across the map, geth bombers dive over head. This makes any activation harder, and even more so when the location is out in the open.

I just don't think Bioware thought this through. Its fine to discourage camping, but when your missions require players to hold a spot, you have to be very careful about how you do that. Dragoons need to be less aggressive. Phantoms will sometimes run away if they take damage, why don't Dragoons? And the entire Collector faction is just wack. They are superior to the reapers in every possible way, from their upgraded exploding husks to Scions which are much more powerful than brutes and ravangers combined, to their upgraded seekers over swarmers. Getting hit by seekers and loosing your cooldown is fatal for a power dependent class, not to mention they screw over the Fury with her AF.

Something needs to be done to make these objectives a bit easier for players. What if having multiple people activate the same object sped up the timer?

This has nothing to do with the new factions/enemies.  This issue showed up before Retaliation.  The patch right before Retaliation was released.  Basically when/how you die seems to be more senstive than before.    

While you are correct, his point is also vaild. Hack circles and 4 objective activations have become even harder, with bombers or Dragoons just swarming you.

[78stonewobble]

lemon00 wrote...

jotun04 wrote...


My feeling is that enemies have been less restricted in where they respawn, creating more situations where you just suddenly have enemies flanking you from a direction you just came from, and much more difficult hack circle objectives because the enemies just keep respawning 10 feet away.

There were always a few places where this happened, but lately it seems to be happening all over the place.

on this note, if the enemies have the AI to anticipate where we are going to be (like collectors camping at upload spots), doesn't it make sense that when enemies spawn, they would strategically spawn in a safe (i.e. away from us) spot? And again along those similar lines, doesn't also make sense that they don't float in anywhere, but actually have to come into the game at "landing zones". It is kinda ridiculous when you are data uloading and clear everyone away, only to have the same exact enemy collection spawn in the exact same place, right on top of you. I know it is to up the difficulty a bit, but it seems there would be better, more logical ways to do this on upload/activate objectives.

To me, if you clear a zone (like the upload zone), you should be given some sort of repreive while the enemy regroups and advances again.

This.

It kinda adds frustration and well... futility more than a feeling of success. That the enemies spawn riiight next to you. Sometimes while you're looking makes it feel very cheap as well. I'm not quite sure how it should work but...

[Daihannya]

UpirNoir wrote...

Daihannya wrote...

Outrider42 wrote...

Here is how the game has become harder folks:

While so many adjustments have been made to stop camping, the problem is that so many of the mission objectives REQUIRE players to in fact camp a little. The activation and hack objectives are 10x harder than before because the enemies all have ways to force you out of the zone. Activations are getting ridiculous, one player simply cannot afford to sit defenseless for the amount of time required to activate something anymore. New enemies like Dragoons can rush right up to you in no time flat, Scions bomb you from across the map, geth bombers dive over head. This makes any activation harder, and even more so when the location is out in the open.

I just don't think Bioware thought this through. Its fine to discourage camping, but when your missions require players to hold a spot, you have to be very careful about how you do that. Dragoons need to be less aggressive. Phantoms will sometimes run away if they take damage, why don't Dragoons? And the entire Collector faction is just wack. They are superior to the reapers in every possible way, from their upgraded exploding husks to Scions which are much more powerful than brutes and ravangers combined, to their upgraded seekers over swarmers. Getting hit by seekers and loosing your cooldown is fatal for a power dependent class, not to mention they screw over the Fury with her AF.

Something needs to be done to make these objectives a bit easier for players. What if having multiple people activate the same object sped up the timer?

This has nothing to do with the new factions/enemies.  This issue showed up before Retaliation.  The patch right before Retaliation was released.  Basically when/how you die seems to be more senstive than before.    

While you are correct, his point is also vaild. Hack circles and 4 objective activations have become even harder, with bombers or Dragoons just swarming you.

Agreed, but the topic is about health/shield gate.   Although harder it is not impossible to do those objectives. People just have to learn how to deal with the new elements.   That takes time.  It's only been out for a week.  

But changes to the gates or whatever is causing the changes in death perception is something a little more fundemental.   We can adapt to this as well, but it really "feels" different from before.   Which is completely different from new enemies, requires new tactics.  

[Outrider42]

My main point is that regardless of whatever the shieldgate issue is, the primary reason the game is harder now relates to how everything is built to stop camping. This effects the extraction wave as well, even when you try to time it so that you run to the extraction zone with a few seconds left, there is always a freshly spawned Dragoon or 3 swarming you at the zone. In my opinion, this effects the game far more than this phantom shield gate. I can deal with the gate, but getting swarmed on these objectives has killed me more than anything else.

I did not have a major issue after the patch. I was clearing gold with pugs quite frequently before the new dlc, after the patch. I was saving up credits for the dlc. After the dlc, it seems like a total shift in power among the factions. Now the reapers are the easiest, and I even put the geth at #2 easiest. While the geth bomber is annoying, more bombers means fewer pyros, which frankly is a good thing. But the Dragoon has completely changed Cerberus. Now I am certainly fine with the Dragoon in principle, Cerberus needed something, and the Dragoon is fine except for his insane aggressiveness. And they spawn in groups, often 2 or 3 at a time. We'll be hacking away and nearly finished, and then BAM, 3 Dragoons sprint in out of freaking nowhere along with a phantom. I'd rather fight 3 phantoms.
The Collectors are a whole different deal. I can work with them on normal waves, but its always on the objective waves when trying to hold a spot that things go to hell. The Scions have an insane amount of firepower, but you can't just deal with them alone, you have to take on walking suicide bombers, seekers, and everything else. And I did not even mention the Protean, which is even more mobile than Banshees (At least a Banshee tops moving sometimes.) I'd rather fight the geth.

[Mafia_Steve]

Outrider42 wrote...

My main point is that regardless of whatever the shieldgate issue is, the primary reason the game is harder now relates to how everything is built to stop camping. This effects the extraction wave as well, even when you try to time it so that you run to the extraction zone with a few seconds left, there is always a freshly spawned Dragoon or 3 swarming you at the zone. In my opinion, this effects the game far more than this phantom shield gate. I can deal with the gate, but getting swarmed on these objectives has killed me more than anything else.

I did not have a major issue after the patch. I was clearing gold with pugs quite frequently before the new dlc, after the patch. I was saving up credits for the dlc. After the dlc, it seems like a total shift in power among the factions. Now the reapers are the easiest, and I even put the geth at #2 easiest. While the geth bomber is annoying, more bombers means fewer pyros, which frankly is a good thing. But the Dragoon has completely changed Cerberus. Now I am certainly fine with the Dragoon in principle, Cerberus needed something, and the Dragoon is fine except for his insane aggressiveness. And they spawn in groups, often 2 or 3 at a time. We'll be hacking away and nearly finished, and then BAM, 3 Dragoons sprint in out of freaking nowhere along with a phantom. I'd rather fight 3 phantoms.
The Collectors are a whole different deal. I can work with them on normal waves, but its always on the objective waves when trying to hold a spot that things go to hell. The Scions have an insane amount of firepower, but you can't just deal with them alone, you have to take on walking suicide bombers, seekers, and everything else. And I did not even mention the Protean, which is even more mobile than Banshees (At least a Banshee tops moving sometimes.) I'd rather fight the geth.

I'm convinced now that the difficulty mainly stems from where enemies spawn and how quickly they spawn. Hacks/uploads and extractions are an absolute clusterfck. Using missiles doesn't even earn you a few second breather. This probably also explains why people are getting downed by mooks. Mooks are spawning closer, meaning more accurate and concentrated fire from more sources.

[Josh.de]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Hey everyone, the team does feel the game has become more difficult with the latest content and patch and we think there are a lot of reasons for this, but we don't believe it is the health/shield gate issue. We will continue to investigate the gates to see if we've missed any edge cases, but at this time we are working on other solutions to the jump in difficulty.

Thanks for the response. You guys sure that the shieldgate invlunerability time wasn't 0.5s on ALL difficulties before? Maybe some unrelated fix fixed that too? Because my basic standard is still my fitnessless Asari Adept going from full shields to dead against a Cerberus turret in the time it takes to use 'warp' from cover. Didn't use to happen... can't imagine what could relate to that besides the gates working differently.

After playing silver a few times for the solo banner, I'm almost sure this has to be it.

Well after the last DLC and some rounds Cerberus Geth and Collectors, I´ve had enough until something about the health/shieldgate gets fixed to how it was before.

Since then I´ve played only Reapers, as they had nothing changed, but on gold the marauder shots weren´t the same like before the DLC came out.

Tried it hosting, was a bit better, but not equal as to before DLC.
Off-host it´s just annoying to play, as I go down once out of any cover, no matter how much shields or health I have.

Then I repeated the same as above (hosting, off-host) vs Reapers on Silver and I found that this is what it was like before the DLC on Gold.

If it´s not lag related it has to be the 0.5sec delay ("immunity") that before was 0.5sec on all levels.

Modifié par Josh.de, 16 octobre 2012 - 12:25 .

[Chaoswind]

Outrider42 wrote...

My main point is that regardless of whatever the shieldgate issue is, the primary reason the game is harder now relates to how everything is built to stop camping. This effects the extraction wave as well, even when you try to time it so that you run to the extraction zone with a few seconds left, there is always a freshly spawned Dragoon or 3 swarming you at the zone. In my opinion, this effects the game far more than this phantom shield gate. I can deal with the gate, but getting swarmed on these objectives has killed me more than anything else.

I did not have a major issue after the patch. I was clearing gold with pugs quite frequently before the new dlc, after the patch. I was saving up credits for the dlc. After the dlc, it seems like a total shift in power among the factions. Now the reapers are the easiest, and I even put the geth at #2 easiest. While the geth bomber is annoying, more bombers means fewer pyros, which frankly is a good thing. But the Dragoon has completely changed Cerberus. Now I am certainly fine with the Dragoon in principle, Cerberus needed something, and the Dragoon is fine except for his insane aggressiveness. And they spawn in groups, often 2 or 3 at a time. We'll be hacking away and nearly finished, and then BAM, 3 Dragoons sprint in out of freaking nowhere along with a phantom. I'd rather fight 3 phantoms.
The Collectors are a whole different deal. I can work with them on normal waves, but its always on the objective waves when trying to hold a spot that things go to hell. The Scions have an insane amount of firepower, but you can't just deal with them alone, you have to take on walking suicide bombers, seekers, and everything else. And I did not even mention the Protean, which is even more mobile than Banshees (At least a Banshee tops moving sometimes.) I'd rather fight the geth.

sorry but no

I never camped, **** I hardly ever grab cover and the game is harder to me because Strafing is USELESS.
Hit and run has not changed, yet the game is harder to us as well and is only because the enemies start to shot at you and the Host says you didn't dodge so your health evaporates.

I will concede that Objectives are a tad harder now with the addition of Dragoons/Geth Bombers, but nothing a good team player can't handle

Modifié par Chaoswind, 16 octobre 2012 - 12:31 .

[BattleCop88]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Hey everyone, the team does feel the game has become more difficult with the latest content and patch and we think there are a lot of reasons for this, but we don't believe it is the health/shield gate issue. We will continue to investigate the gates to see if we've missed any edge cases, but at this time we are working on other solutions to the jump in difficulty.

Thank you. We would like to know what the actual problems are. As for me, I am in college now, but there isn't an Xbox I can play. I haven't played me3 since August and I've been wanting to play since then, but I think I'll wait until this gets resolved. The last thing I need is more frustration.

[drmoose00]

I ahve to say, tonight I played after several days, several gold and silver matches, and things seemed more normal to me. I know I ahve had experiences lately that my health sheilds dropped so fast I ddin't even know what hit me (literally had no idea). Tonight things were dropping more normally.

I was playing mostly duration and durability spec'ed ghost, so aggo was elsewhere a lot of the time.  So perhaps i wasn't experieneing the full onslaught of rapid fire weapons.

No question the difficulty is up, but tonight I didnt' fell like see any shiedl/health issues.

that said, 1/2 the team was down nearly every level, so....

[Elindile]

I'm starting to wonder if its the fact that you constantly have enemies rushing to be in your face, and unload on you from every direction. As long as I'm not surrounded it doesn't seem to be a problem.

[ZiRK]

Cool - atleast im not the only one spontaneously dropping dead.

[ParatrooperSean]

I wish I had a way to take a video. I've noticed high powered, single enemy shots (like from the Scion) to be taking off all of my shields plus some health.

Bioware, do you test this in a quarantined, internal environment or do you have your testers play on a public server (on and off host) like everyone else?

[hawgwild5757]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I wish I had a way to take a video. I've noticed high powered, single enemy shots (like from the Scion) to be taking off all of my shields plus some health.

This happens in about 1 out of 5 games I play against the Collectors.  Even on Bronze and Silver.  One shot from a Scion and Boom! Sheilds gone, health down to half or even less.  And it takes forever for your shields to regenerate.  And on a Krogan or Batarian specced for fitness no less.  When it's happening a wave 10 hack on Silver, London is damn near impossible.

[anddill]

Yes, some games are fine, and the next you hit the dust in wave 1 without seeing an enemy. Same lobby, same host.

[LukC]

This isn't funny, over 2000 shields and I die from 1 centurion :/

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Healthgate at the very least is not working properly. I have video proof that I will be uploading ASAP. I hope you take the time to check it out when I do so.

When a dyed-in-the-wool cynic like Sirian posts something like this, you damn well pay attention to it, people.

[megabeast37215]

I notice them working ON HOST consistently. Off host is another story all together...

[Stinja]

megabeast37215 wrote...

I notice them working ON HOST consistently. Off host is another story all together...

When i was doing my solo mastery, i'm sure there were times they werent working.  Ditto solo-ing with a Novaguard, i'd get "WTF dead?  how!" moments, when i thought my invincibility frames should of been working.

Maybe it's all to do with checks / timings / invincibility?

At least BW are looking into it.

[greghorvath]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

E71 wrote...

Is there even a point to 0.01 seconds? I mean, come on...

The point is that even a massive single shot of damage won't pass through your shield and hit your health, so you can't die in one shot.

awwww, that is so cute...

Enemies that fire strong enough weapons to do that shoot (homing projectiles) in bursts of threes and the first one already staggers you. A stagger from which you don't recuperate fast enough to even notice the 0,1 invincibility...
The only biggies that don't shoot in threes are the Banshee and the Praetorian. One deals DoT and the other shoots thorugh cover.