697 réponses à ce sujet

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

cgj wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

cgj wrote...

Spencercl wrote...

The what is it that is causing a large group of us to feel the game has fundamentally changed?

As others have stated, I LOVE this game but overnight the game has become significantly more frustrating. Not that it is harder, which I do not care about but frustrating. Before the patch I normally knew I was in trouble and about to go down. Now I continually go down without any warning. I am not playing different, something has caused it.

i am a redundant guy,
massive patch, new enemies you still have yet to figure out completely?

We're talking about even Reapers here. The videos proving the health/shield gates are bugged are of players fighting Reapers.

Reapers were not altered in any way by the DLC or patch, excpet their execution behavior.

again, i'll be redundant
reapears didn't change but other factions did, which made you more aware of the lethality of troopers in general

...

No words.

Okay, one last try:

1. Situation one: I fight Reapers before the DLC like I've fought them since launch, nothing strange.

2. Situation two: I fight Reapers after the DLC. I notice my shield and healthgate seem to have lost heir invincibility frames.

This has NOTHING to do with Collectors, Geth or Cerberus.

Cannibals haven't changed. What changed is the shieldgate. "Not being aware of their lethality" is not what saved me from dieing before, it's the now gone invincibility period.

[Grunt_Platform]

It might be a mistake to assume the issue is Shield Gate. I'm assuming you guys have checked for anything causing a quicker than normal kill? I did notice that in both confirmation vids in the thread are using a Turian Ghost—can anybody replicate it with other classes?

And thanks for working so hard on this issue. It's really bizarre, and I wouldn't have blamed you for writing it off at least for another week.

Modifié par EvanKester, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:15 .

[Dunvi]

lazysundae wrote...

First of all, thank you for taking the time to respond to this issue.

I also feel the gates are working differently since the DLC, and want to add that I have had an increase of deaths by "suicide" - where I seem to hit the gate, take no further damage, and drop anyway (while not under a DoT power). These show as suicide on the killfeed, and in some cases nothing shows at all - I am dead and have no idea by what. I wonder if people are encountering this as well.

This. I have had games where I would go down every minute or more, and no killfeed notifications at all. This is usually accompanied with the missing red damage overlay.

[JSLfromBx]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Hey Guys,

I've spent a good chunk of my day today focused on this issue. I've been running various combinations of old patches and old DLC, and none of my testing has turned up any differences in the shield gates and the delay between them on any difficulty.

Well, my theory is wrong then, that's unfortanute it would have been an easy fix. I guess the gap betwen your data and player perception just grew quite a bit larger.

[Ion 929]

If the shield/health gates are working properly, could the difference be how damage is calculated from the enemy?

i.e.. before it calculated all damage as if it came from one enemy where as now it is calculating damage based upon each individual enemy?

3 grunts firing = only 1 grunt damage
3 grunts firing = 3 different damage totals added together

Thank you all for working on what the majority of the community has noticed as a change in the game we love.

Modifié par Ion 929, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:20 .

[Khranitel]

Thanks for your reaction, Eric.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The following enemy attacks ignore the player health and shield gate mechanics, which means they can instantly kill you.
- Any sync kill
- Enemy grenades
- Possessed Abomination explosions

So, as I understand, Praetorian beam do not ignore shield/health gates.
Then how we could explain this moment:
www.youtube.com/watch
1:27. He was downed by Praetorian beam, from about half his shields.

Modifié par Khranitel, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:19 .

[Kristen Schanche]

Khranitel wrote...

Thanks for your reaction, Eric.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The following enemy attacks ignore the player health and shield gate mechanics, which means they can instantly kill you.
- Any sync kill
- Enemy grenades
- Possessed Abomination explosions

So, as I understand, Praetorian beam do not ignore shield/health gates.
Then how we could explain this moment:
www.youtube.com/watch
1:27. He was downed by Praetorian beam, from about half his shields.

Praetorian beams rapidly hit a number of times in succession, similar to the way the players Particle Beam does.  It's not a single damage attack.  You can see by closely watching in that video that he does hit each of the gates, with an adequate amount of time for the 0.01 platinum gate to tick.  All of my tests today show that issuing damage to the player at that rate produces the same result prior to the patch.

[Walhorin]

The problem I have noticed with the reapers is that that banshee ball does dmg upon impact and after impact. And that is the thing that kills me since it increases the time before my shields can regenerate. Regeneration once it kicks in is quick, just the time before one can regenerate is not.

And I presume it is this change which kills people now after the implementation of the dlc.

[JSLfromBx]

I have been thinking, we all feel like we die more easily and more often and that we fail even silver match, but our feeling are unecessary.There is more trustable data that human perception.

Bioware have metrics for all that, player death, player revive, mission faillure, etc all that data is collected and often used by the balance team to makes changes to the game. Now cerberus and Geth data will be biased with the new unit BUT if the metrics data clearly show an increased mortality and faillure rate during Reapers games then that's hard proff that the game difficulty changed overnight.

Modifié par JSLfromBx, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:25 .

[UpirNoir]

Well thanks again Eric and Chris (and anyone else working on this). We greatly appreciate all your work. It is just strange as a lot of players have the feeling that they die more quickly and often now than before, and have trouble on difficulty settings they could handle before .The new units can't be the only reason for that, because it happens against Reapers as well, who did not get new units.....

[blacklight309]

A big thank you to Eric and the others who helped, I really appreciate the clarification and your continued testing!  

Modifié par blacklight309, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:40 .

[Zkyire]

Edit2: Yeah nevermind, it must have been lag (hit again later in the match and it only drained the barrier and not the health.

Modifié par Zkyire, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:49 .

[SimJoseph7]

Quick question(s) for Chris or Eric; In all of your testing/playing, haven't you noticed that post patch/DLC that the players are dropping at a much higher (and in my opinion, unusual) rate?

If so, what do you attribute this to? Maybe not shield/health gate but something definitely does not feel right.

I don't believe it is because of the new enemies either (and quick stomps are not a factor as you are already down). I'm sure I haven't gotten THAT much worse but I've been wrong before (even though I am not in the top 5% of great players), LOL.

Joseph

[Nylon Angel]

lazysundae wrote...

First of all, thank you for taking the time to respond to this issue.

I also feel the gates are working differently since the DLC, and want to add that I have had an increase of deaths by "suicide" - where I seem to hit the gate, take no further damage, and drop anyway (while not under a DoT power). These show as suicide on the killfeed, and in some cases nothing shows at all - I am dead and have no idea by what. I wonder if people are encountering this as well.

Yep, me too.

Sudden death and nothing on the feed. Apart from taking sweet sweet revenge on whatever took me down, I use that info to try and learn to be a better player, you know, learn from ones mistakes and all that jazz.

[Eric Fagnan]

Khranitel wrote...

Thanks for your reaction, Eric.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The following enemy attacks ignore the player health and shield gate mechanics, which means they can instantly kill you.
- Any sync kill
- Enemy grenades
- Possessed Abomination explosions

So, as I understand, Praetorian beam do not ignore shield/health gates.
Then how we could explain this moment:
www.youtube.com/watch
1:27. He was downed by Praetorian beam, from about half his shields.

Behind the scenes, beams are like really fast firing weapons, so a few of the hits will hit the gate, but then afterward it will continue to chew away at your defenses.

[Kanadood]

Ugh. This thread is not giving me a lot of hope that this issue is going to be fixed quickly, which is a shame because it's absolutely sucking the fun out of enjoying new content.

Let me just add in my voice to say that there's definitely something wrong with how damage is getting applied, and it was noticeable enough for me to come hunting through the forums to find some kind of explanation. Now even matches where my whole team appears to be doing everything right results in constant deaths. Even on silver I'm regularly taking shots that finish off shields and immediately cut into health, it's like everything is using the platinum shield gate timing or something.

[Doctor Derp]

While it's true that no one has been able to find any reason for the supposed "change", I still find it very hard to believe that this supposed gating issue is just a wide scale placebo.  But I do have a bit of crazy theorizing going on in my head right now. Many people have been referencing the reapers as "the faction that got no changes". The control group. Which is in fact true. But what if the reapers have changed in a way that people have seemingly overlooked? Bare with me for a sec.

With the other factions you have obvious changes. The geth have working combat drones, geth bombers, and stomping/no grab Pyros. They were in many ways considered the strongest faction pre-patch in terms of sheer damage output. Cerberus got buffed greatly by the addition of the Dragoon and the faster/stronger Atlases. The Dragoons and Phantoms work together in a way that's very hard to play around. That synergy between units is what made the Geth so difficult in the first place. Personally, I have not noticed a difference in my ability to play against these two factions other than those obvious additions.

The Collectors are extremely powerful for the same reason. The Abominations and Troopers keep you from focusing on the more dangerous long range attacks from the Praetorians and Scions. And on top of that there are seeker swarms which prevent powers from activating, a completely new hazard no one has seen up until now.

Now the data shows no change to shield gate or health gate, correct? And there are no claims of any AI changes either. But what about Cannibals? They needed both the patch and the dlc to be able to execute downed players so they obviously had some issues with the way Cannibals behave. Now this is nothing but a personal feeling but it seems to me that Cannibals are shooting their gun off MUCH more often than they used to. Is there a possibility that when patching the AI for the Cannibals it somehow managed to fix another bug where they weren't firing to their greatest capacity? Cannibals, overall, have always seemed like the weakest unit to me, and it isn't because they couldn't stomp (Er...eat). They would hardly ever fire off their gun, and when they did it wasn't to the extent you see playing now or in the videos posted here.

There may be another explanation in terms of the "suicide deaths" people are experiencing, but I feel like the game is mostly unchanged since the dlc.

Modifié par Doctor Derp, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:40 .

[Jetblackmoon]

Deaths by suicide occur by walking into Ravager blood I'm pretty sure, but it doesn't seem to consistently happen that way. There are also times when I'm downed and it doesn't say by what in the killfeed, but I don't think that's a big deal.

Things certainly feel different, but it hasn't and won't stopped me from playing Gold/Plat, the things I usually play.

[GroverA125]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Khranitel wrote...

Thanks for your reaction, Eric.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

The following enemy attacks ignore the player health and shield gate mechanics, which means they can instantly kill you.
- Any sync kill
- Enemy grenades
- Possessed Abomination explosions

So, as I understand, Praetorian beam do not ignore shield/health gates.
Then how we could explain this moment:
www.youtube.com/watch
1:27. He was downed by Praetorian beam, from about half his shields.

Praetorian beams rapidly hit a number of times in succession, similar to the way the players Particle Beam does.  It's not a single damage attack.  You can see by closely watching in that video that he does hit each of the gates, with an adequate amount of time for the 0.01 platinum gate to tick.  All of my tests today show that issuing damage to the player at that rate produces the same result prior to the patch.

Perhaps the minimum time needs to be increased. Currently, that makes the Praetorian undeniably superior to its counterparts (comes with barrier and respectable armor, moves very quickly, insta-kill-capable, capable of ranged, and has a long-range attack capable of downing players instantly). furthermore, this would dull any thoughts of a change being made.

[Eric Fagnan]

We've looked through basically all the code and data changes over the past couple months and we can't find any unintended changes that would account for the game feeling more difficult, other than the obvious ones listed in the patch notes and all the new content. None of the enemy weapons, firing behavior, AI, or damage systems have been changed other than what was listed in the patch notes.

[Kristen Schanche]

Deaths by suicide generally occur when the thing that killed a player was generated by a source that's no longer available. An example of this would be an Atlas fires a rocket, before the rocket connects with the player, the Atlas is destroyed. The rocket then connects and scores a kill. That can trigger a 'suicide' death in the ticker.

As for the main thrust of the thread, I'm certainly planning to dedicate most of my weekend to multiplayer, I gots me some challenges to get, so I'll be keeping an eye out as well for odd behavior. It's certainly true that live play can find issues that testing doesn't, but that said right now I'm still pretty confident in the tests we've run, and I don't see anything that indicates that the behavior is any different then it's always been. I'm very curious to find out what it is that's causing this perception though.

Modifié par Chris Schanche, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:48 .

[Farosyrn]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Hey Guys,

I've spent a good chunk of my day today focused on this issue. I've been running various combinations of old patches and old DLC, and none of my testing has turned up any differences in the shield gates and the delay between them on any difficulty.

And we all really appreciate it, thanks!
But, numbers aside, don't you feel like you're dying more easily when you play the game, even if you can't quite put a thumb on it yet?

[UpirNoir]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We've looked through basically all the code and data changes over the past couple months and we can't find any unintended changes that would account for the game feeling more difficult, other than the obvious ones listed in the patch notes and all the new content. None of the enemy weapons, firing behavior, AI, or damage systems have been changed other than what was listed in the patch notes.

Wow, so we are all seeing ghosts ? Very strange. When you guys play yourself, don't you notice the change players are reporting ? I mean, sure there is something like community paranoia but it is noticeable that many people have the same sense of "off-ness"....

[Kristen Schanche]

Farosyrn wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Hey Guys,

I've spent a good chunk of my day today focused on this issue. I've been running various combinations of old patches and old DLC, and none of my testing has turned up any differences in the shield gates and the delay between them on any difficulty.

And we all really appreciate it, thanks!
But, numbers aside, don't you feel like you're dying more easily when you play the game, even if you can't quite put a thumb on it yet?

I've been playing quite a bit at home and that hasn't been my perception no.  I generally play low or no fitness caster type builds though so I'm used to blowing up fast if I step out.

[Ryu Connor]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We've looked through basically all the code and data changes over the past couple months and we can't find any unintended changes that would account for the game feeling more difficult, other than the obvious ones listed in the patch notes and all the new content. None of the enemy weapons, firing behavior, AI, or damage systems have been changed other than what was listed in the patch notes.

I don't suppose the telemetry data is of some use to substantiate the issue?

Perhaps normalizing the death statistics against the in-rush of additional players?  Maybe filtering out the changed factions?  Some way to work the numbers and see if the numbers bear out an actual issue?