61 réponses à ce sujet

[VenomStriker]

So I was just starting yet another mage and finished playing through the origin story when I came to a sudden realisation and begun to question myself on said subject.

This all happened while I was watching Jowan escape, when I came to the realisation that simply knocking 5 guys on their ass and running off screen can't possibly have been the end of his escape...

My question is:  How exactly does Jowan (An apprentice mage who has merely dabbled in blood magic) fight his way out through not only a small army of templars, but also manage to break his way through a special "Metal Door" that can hold off abominations for days, break through another door that takes at least four grown men to open it, and then steal the one and only boat to make his way across the lake to freedom (all the while still fighting the small army of templars in his path)?

Expecially after Duncans story of how a single blood mage was defeated by only 5 templars, not an army.

It seems such a small thing to overlook, but if he cannot escape then he can not be in redcliffe later, and so on...


Edit:  Also, once the other mages saw Jowan fighting his way out with blood magic, I'm sure some/all of them would of joined in on the fight also. So yea...

Modifié par VenomStriker, 30 décembre 2009 - 06:41 .

[Nemesis Shield]

That is an interesting plot hole, to be sure. I have not thought of it before. Maybe we should just make up some implausible, but still possible, rationalization to explain it away.

For example, maybe Jowan studied some teleportation spell using blood magic in anticipation that he might have to make a quick getaway some day; so, on the day in question, he just teleported himself out of the Circle Tower and away to safety. (Teleportation doesn't exist in the regular, "user-friendly" magic of the Circle, but who knows what one can achieve with that nefarious blood magic.)

That's one way to rationalize it, I guess. But, good job catching this!!!

Modifié par Nemesis Shield, 30 décembre 2009 - 06:51 .

[Kepha]

Big Metal Door wasn't closed. It isn't normally kept closed, just there in case of abominations.

Given that Jowan and Lily intended to leave immediately after you deal with his phylactery they probably already had an escape route set up. Lily might have been able to procure another boat, or they had an excuse ready to give the ferryman. Jowan just went through with whatever plan they had all on his own.

Only those in the room, who were all knocked out, knew what was going on. If Jowan was quick enough he could get away before the alarm could be raised.

Modifié par Kepha, 30 décembre 2009 - 06:52 .

[TheMadCat]

I don't think it ever really says. There didn't seem to be anything set up aside from the couple of Templar's brought by Gregoire and Irving so I'm assuming he used Blood Magic to control the few Templar's left at the door as they'd be caught off guard. The man with the boat wouldn't know what was going on, and the rest I think is stated well enough in the game.

[VenomStriker]

After coming up with the idea of teleportation I decided that this would of made it much too easy for him to escape to begin with since he would of destroyed his vial of blood (can't remember the spelling for the correct word) on his own and not needed us at all...

Hence fourth I came to the conclusion that perhaps he sprouted wings of blood and jumped out of said window that the front door guard was talking about, then gave up on ideas and came here!


Edit: Yes the metal door already being open had also crossed my mind, but Jowan could not of made it through the front door without alerting somebody else due to how many people it takes to open.

[Namirsolo]

I just kind of assumed that he got away in the confusion. I guess you can call that suspension of disbelief.

[VenomStriker]

Btw, don't forget that Irving also knows when you break into the blood vial chamber, as well as everyone knowing about Jowan already (hence the need to tranquil Jowan).

Also, surely they would of alerted the other templars before confronting us, blood mage on the loose who just broke into the chamber with his vial and all that...

[Namirsolo]

To quote someone far funnier than I "That's not really a plothole, that's just something that is... stupid"

[VenomStriker]

True, but they are just part of a lot of conflicting things that turn the whole charade into a plothole imo.

Modifié par VenomStriker, 30 décembre 2009 - 07:09 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

I thought everyone knew that every Blood Mage besides you and your party get godlike powers from Blood Magic.

Y'know, like the ability to invade heaven.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 30 décembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

I thought everyone knew that every Blood Mage besides you and your party get godlike powers from Blood Magic.

Y'know, like the ability to invade heaven.

Holy double-post, Batman!

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 30 décembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[Sabriana]

I always assumed that he and Lily had a plan all set up for escape, and that he just used it. Perhaps they didn't alert the whole tower that they were going to apprehend a potential blood mage. It seems that the Knight Commander didn't even believe Irving at first. He seems surprised that Irving was right about Lily.

It's also possible that they thought that Knight Commander + First Enchanter + several Templars would be enough to thwart any plan of escape. A bit arrogant perhaps, but feasable. After all, Templars do kick mage-but pretty well. As my mage had to find out doing the mage quest.

[reepneep]

Nemesis Shield wrote...

That is an interesting plot hole, to be sure. I have not thought of it before. Maybe we should just make up some implausible, but still possible, rationalization to explain it away.

For example, maybe Jowan studied some teleportation spell using blood magic in anticipation that he might have to make a quick getaway some day; so, on the day in question, he just teleported himself out of the Circle Tower and away to safety. (Teleportation doesn't exist in the regular, "user-friendly" magic of the Circle, but who knows what one can achieve with that nefarious blood magic.)

That's one way to rationalize it, I guess. But, good job catching this!!!

One of the Codex entries you pick up in the Fade says that one can't teleport,  not just that they don't know how, that its literally impossible to do with magic.  Good move, IMO, as instantaneous travel is the mortal enemy of plot.

[Grommash94]

Well, the door was open, I presume that Jowan quickly took care of the two guards near the front door...ran away and took whatever transport Lily had arranged. Such are the powers of blood magic.

[Stuffy38]

He disguised himself as a tiger by making the suit out of old cereal packets and slipped out the door reserved for large felines.

[IronVanguard]

That's a good point. I'd have to go with Surprise, as well.





What I can't get is the timing. If he left when you do for Ostagar, fled for who knows how long, was captured but then taken by Loghain and sent to poison Eamon.... All before you get to Lothering. I just can't see it all fitting together. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Tirigon]

The templars are completely helpless if they aren´t prepared. A bloodmage can killm, injure or take control over a group of templars before they even realise they are attacked, if they aren´t prepared. And about the door.... IMO the plot hole is not that he could open it with magic but rather that you cant.... There is no steel door in the entire world that cant be opened with a big enough fireball.

And even if there was one, he could simply force the templars under his control to open the freaking door for him.

[VenomStriker]

Well don't forget Jowan is not an all powerful blood mage, I don't see him opening a massive door built to keep mages in on his own when he couldn't even get into the blood vial chamber on his own, especially before someone catches up to him, and there are also only two guards at the door, not enough to open it should he use mind control (though I doubt he's even powerful enough to use it on two people, maybe one..).



Overall, Jowan is quite a terrible mage when it comes down to it, he even got owned by the redcliffe guards...

[Creature 1]

VenomStriker wrote...
My question is:  How exactly does Jowan (An apprentice mage who has merely dabbled in blood magic) fight his way out through not only a small army of templars, but also manage to break his way through a special "Metal Door" that can hold off abominations for days, break through another door that takes at least four grown men to open it, and then steal the one and only boat to make his way across the lake to freedom (all the while still fighting the small army of templars in his path)?

I think most of what keeps the mages under control is the GPS keeping track of their every move.  The Templars don't need to lock up the Tower, since every mage knows if they leave without permission they will be hunted down and killed.  So if Jowan managed to stun his immediate opponents escape should be a matter of walking out the front door and heading across the lake to get a drink at the tavern.  He should be able to bluff that he had permission to go, since going without permission is insanity if they have your phylactery. 

[VenomStriker]

Creature 1 wrote...
I think most of what keeps the mages under control is the GPS keeping track of their every move.  The Templars don't need to lock up the Tower, since every mage knows if they leave without permission they will be hunted down and killed.  So if Jowan managed to stun his immediate opponents escape should be a matter of walking out the front door and heading across the lake to get a drink at the tavern.  He should be able to bluff that he had permission to go, since going without permission is insanity if they have your phylactery. 

Except that he's covered in blood from head to toe and has a gaping hole in the palm of his hand from the knife he just stabbed through it, I'd like to see him talk his way out of that one.

[Tirigon]

VenomStriker wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...
I think most of what keeps the mages under control is the GPS keeping track of their every move.  The Templars don't need to lock up the Tower, since every mage knows if they leave without permission they will be hunted down and killed.  So if Jowan managed to stun his immediate opponents escape should be a matter of walking out the front door and heading across the lake to get a drink at the tavern.  He should be able to bluff that he had permission to go, since going without permission is insanity if they have your phylactery. 

Except that he's covered in blood from head to toe and has a gaping hole in the palm of his hand from the knife he just stabbed through it, I'd like to see him talk his way out of that one.

Its DAO. So changing clothes, or simply leaving the tower will clean him up.
Yea, its a kinda magic, right?

[skotie]

Here's my somewhat short and simple theory. Irving and the templars don't know how much blood magic Jowan knows, they bring a few guards and think they had it under control. They got surprised and overwhelmed by Jowan when they tried to take Lily, after that Jowan runs out to the front door where he mind control's one of the templars to open the door and then has him fight the other once its open. There is only 2 guards at the exit and they never get much action, most of the mages don't blame Jowan for trying to escape so no they don't try to stop him.



Once hes out the front door all he has to do is mind control/threaten the lone boat man and steal the boat. The escape wasn't that hard honestly, once the five guards got knocked down he was basically at the front door of the tower.