27 réponses à ce sujet

[Donatelllo]

Is anyone else finding this?  I for one find it time consuming and tedious to keep dying and restarting having to go through all the characters and the various automations.  Yeah I can get them to work eventually but it just seems to take away from the gameplay.  It's like playing a new FPS with someone who hasn't played one ever before and trying to teach them.

Oh well, just having a minor whinge...don't get me wrong, I still love the game.

Having your main character as a warrior/tank class and playing with one of your NPC's seems to work a treat at times.  Has anybody else got a gripe with the seemingly unresponsive tactics system in the game?

[Shadewarp]

Tactics on the PS3 is nearly non-existant... Can't even command a NPC to go slay a certain enemy, without using some kind of skill to make him attack it. The lock doesn't really do much, other than keep the target if you move the screen away...



The PS3 needs more tactics options...

[Cuthlan]

With proper Tactics settings, I haven't had much of an issue. If I play through without setting up Tactics the way I want them it can get pretty awful.

[Bathead]

I would suggest maybe playing on casual until you get the hang of it.

[Awaitingdoom]

Shadewarp wrote...

Tactics on the PS3 is nearly non-existant... Can't even command a NPC to go slay a certain enemy, without using some kind of skill to make him attack it. The lock doesn't really do much, other than keep the target if you move the screen away...

The PS3 needs more tactics options...

wat? Could you explain that a little more please?   If I understand you correctly, your simply wrong.

[Eshme]

Yea sadyl the clumsy Interface and hehaviour control is the greater difficulty, than is the battles in itself. And so it gets in the way. Try it with a low difficulty and find out.

It wont be better that way, but you arrange the puzzle which is the controls, so it is for me.

[Donatelllo]

Awaitingdoom wrote...

Shadewarp wrote...

Tactics on the PS3 is nearly non-existant... Can't even command a NPC to go slay a certain enemy, without using some kind of skill to make him attack it. The lock doesn't really do much, other than keep the target if you move the screen away...

The PS3 needs more tactics options...

wat? Could you explain that a little more please?   If I understand you correctly, your simply wrong.

I agree...it does exist, it's just a pain in the bum!  Practise.....Practise...(but it's spoiling the fun!)

[saberaxe]

I actually find that micro managing my characters is quite fun. I'm just cruising through hard like its on casual atm playing a PC backstab double daggers cunning rogue, wynne (healer/CC), Shale for a tank he is amazing alistar always dies on me for whatever reason he just goes splat, and Leliana doing ranged dps/cc. The trick to it is to hold up the radial menu and do a quick scan of who is attacking you then have wynne crushing prison/forcefield the biggest non boss threat(s) or if there are mages group in the back earthquake since they have very little physical resistance. Have leliana shatter shot and 3+ mobs and put shale to run over to the mobs she is about to stun I'll run over there as well on the rogue. Soon as shatter shot stun is off bellow with shale soon as his stun in off mind blast with wynne all the while dpsing with mad momentum backstabs. Yeah it's fun as hell. Though thats just me and I know alot of people don't like but I agree your going to have to do it on my first playthrough on normal I didn't really do it at all and alot of the battles were pretty challenging but it appears on hard you can micro manage beat down anyone you want to. e.g I just beat Zatharian in the ruins I cc/ed both trees with wynne. Pinning shot with leliana (missed) bellow with shale already backstabbing by this time reposte stilling backstabbing dirty fighting trees are out still backstabbing he runs off leliana finishes with arrow of slaying stamina coming from wynne.     

Don't you guys just love huge walls of text?

Modifié par saberaxe, 31 décembre 2009 - 05:53 .

[Vixvis]

idk y u complaining? evrything u saying i have no problem with,either u suck and need to get on lower difficulty or buy the game on the pc

[saberaxe]

If you don't know why they are complaining let me explain. They don't like micro managing. Its not about sucking its about them hating to micro manage and trying to avoid it which ramps up the difficulty

[Sacrificial Bias]

I've played Halo Wars, which is a real-time strategy game, and I've never seen as much demand for micromanaging compared to this game.



And really, I thought the point of having tactics to automatically manage your party for you was to reduce the demand of micromanaging each and every step your party members take. Perhaps some people don't mind having everything on the screen move half an inch, then stop moving, then start moving again, then stop again and so on like someone mashing the pause and play buttons on a video as fast as they can. I personally prefer combat to be smooth and seamless, and if I do have to pause the game to do something, it should only be once in a while.



The difficulty scaling is also frustrating as hell, as the "normal" difficulty is far from average, while casual is almost boringly easy, there's no middle ground. I've also heard a few complaints about how the Brood Mother is harder than the "last" boss of the game, which is ironic since you need to beat the Brood Mother first before you can fight the last boss, without the benefit of the various post-Landsmeet equipment available in the shops.



I also found the available parameters to be a bit lacking in tactics(hp increments are only available in 25% for a "less than" parameter when telling your healer when to heal).

[PlaneShaper]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

And really, I thought the point of having tactics to automatically manage your party for you was to reduce the demand of micromanaging each and every step your party members take. Perhaps some people don't mind having everything on the screen move half an inch, then stop moving, then start moving again, then stop again and so on like someone mashing the pause and play buttons on a video as fast as they can. I personally prefer combat to be smooth and seamless, and if I do have to pause the game to do something, it should only be once in a while.

QFT

I have no issues doing it.  But for christ's sake, I wish I didn't feel like it was mandatory.  Totally ruins the flow -- they could have just made the game turn-based and it would have worked out about the same.  Not to mention the bug where their tactics settings don't kick back on and they just stand there with their thumbs up their rears until you manage to tell them the next thing to do.

[Jawson]

saberaxe wrote...

If you don't know why they are complaining let me explain. They don't like micro managing. Its not about sucking its about them hating to micro manage and trying to avoid it which ramps up the difficulty

Wow, go to school and learn to spell correctly, it is a major pain on the ps3, it can be done, but annoying.

[Finch204]

Learn the interface, learn the tactics, it will all come naturally eventually. Bioware RPGs almost always need to be micromanaged at some point in the game. The AI combat tactics the developers gave to the players are golden provided they learn how to set it up.



I for one have no issues with playing the game on PS3 and I love customizing the tactics for my companions. When I see Leliana use Critical Shot on an enemy mage, when I see Alistair disengage from the mob to attack the enemy attacking Morrigan, when I see my main character (who is a tank) taunt enemies attacking Leliana or Morrigan while I am not controlling him, I smile because I just love how the AI combat tactics are working just like I want it to.

[dlavizzo]

I can't say I was impressed by the AI - here's why. Rogues don't automatically move into a backstab position, and as far as I can tell there is no way even through tactics to make them do so. Which means I have to manually switch to the Rogue, move him or her into a backstab position then switch characters again - effectively negating the very point of setting up their tactics in the first place. Further, thanks to memory leaks and other minor glitches on the PS3, many of the skills don't work as intended and require you to use them intelligently. Personally, just to get through the game, I had to go round by round and set up exactly what I wanted my people doing every round, just about.



Last but not least, there are a large number of skills that you can't even tell your party to use thanks to the console-unfriendly Area of Effect selection tool, which seems like it was cribbed from World of Warcraft, to be honest. I would guess roughly half of Morrigan's damaging spells still need to be activated manually, meaning I'm playing her rather than my main character a disproportinate amount of the time.



To be honest, the most fun I've had playing this game so far is having Shale, Oghren, and my 2H Warrior Warden with Wynne healing. Least micromanaging I've found.

[Red_Wizard]

I love the game, and have had minimal trouble playing it through on Nightmare. That said however, the computer AI, and tactics are possibly the worst I've seen to date. You are more than welcome to call me a terrible player, however that will not change the fact that when it falls apart, it really falls apart.

Even building custom actions for each party member has done nothing to alleviate the issue. More often than not, Leliana stands around shooting at nothing, or running into AOE's. The warriors either run away not attacking when combat starts, leaving me, a wizard fleeing instead of casting, or run in and stand clustered for AOE's on both sides. Morrigan to date, is the best at implementing her spells, but she plays a game of survival, over usefulness, never using spell combos, unless I dial to her and set them up. All in all, bouncing around isn't fun.

Maybe the argument could be made, that everything works out fine for some on casual, but I don't want to play casual. I want a challenge. However, I don't want that challenge to come via a flawed system. When you go up in difficulty, enemy AI increases accordingly. This means they intelligently attack one person at a time, while my party splits their focus, or simply doesn't attack, even when I personally go in to set their actions. Add to this the cut scenes forcing you in to the most tactually inept position, with no hope of ever setting a battle field the way you like, and it's enough to pull the hair out of someones head.

The only times things work out well in such cases, is 1) they are all clustered in a room, and you have played the encounter through several times, to intimately know the opponents actions, thus thwarting them with fast and fancy radial work. Or 2) You get damn lucky with some spell saves, and infrequent opponent ineptness, and manage to squeak out a win, albeit losing 3 out of your four party members.

All in all, definitely not a viable tactics system. You are of course quite welcome to like it, and even pull it off on occasion. But that doesn't make it good, or others for having complaints, incompetents.

-RW

Modifié par Red_Wizard, 04 janvier 2010 - 05:00 .

[TimeLordCat]

Just to add a little to the stew, I spent a few minutes studying the various preset for tactics for each character and settled for best for my party and game play style. Going into the custom settings is there if you want to micro manage. And very skill and talent you level up you have to go and update there unless you use a pre-set. And make sure you didn't disable tactics. Scared me good.

[mocaxu]

I think it'll be nice to have a "turn-based" mode.

where you decide how to position and take what action, at your leisure...

[Shadewarp]

Awaitingdoom wrote...

Shadewarp wrote...

Tactics on the PS3 is nearly non-existant... Can't even command a NPC to go slay a certain enemy, without using some kind of skill to make him attack it. The lock doesn't really do much, other than keep the target if you move the screen away...

The PS3 needs more tactics options...

wat? Could you explain that a little more please?   If I understand you correctly, your simply wrong.

Explain what? That tactics is NEARLY non-existant? That you have to use skills to make them attack (and stay on target)

What is wrong about that?

By tactics I don't mean the tactics that you can put in to tell them what to cast and when... I mean that you can't put your tank, to attack a certain point, without having him shieldbash first (Shale has NO direct attack skills at all in tank mode, thus making you have to attack a target, have him run towards it, before switching to your main again)

So what do I need to explain? I would love some more options...that is it...

[Finch204]

Shadewarp wrote...

Awaitingdoom wrote...

Shadewarp wrote...

Tactics on the PS3 is nearly non-existant... Can't even command a NPC to go slay a certain enemy, without using some kind of skill to make him attack it. The lock doesn't really do much, other than keep the target if you move the screen away...

The PS3 needs more tactics options...

wat? Could you explain that a little more please?   If I understand you correctly, your simply wrong.

Explain what? That tactics is NEARLY non-existant? That you have to use skills to make them attack (and stay on target)

What is wrong about that?

By tactics I don't mean the tactics that you can put in to tell them what to cast and when... I mean that you can't put your tank, to attack a certain point, without having him shieldbash first (Shale has NO direct attack skills at all in tank mode, thus making you have to attack a target, have him run towards it, before switching to your main again)

So what do I need to explain? I would love some more options...that is it...

I don't understand what you mean when you say you need to use skills like Shieldbash to have your tank attack. Try this ai rule:

Enemy -> Nearest Visible --- Attack.

Just above the Use Ability, Activate Mode, there are action options for Attack and Wait. You don't need to use a skill for your AI companions just to have them attack.

Modifié par Finch204, 07 janvier 2010 - 01:41 .

[dlavizzo]

One thing I wish is that you didn't have to use 2 tactics slots to tell your main tank to assist the healer. Currently I have my mage's tank (Alistair at the moment, Shale once I do the DLC on this char) set to the following:



5. Morrigan >> Being Attacked By Type >> Melee or Ranged = Use Ability >> Shield Bash

6. Morrigan >> Being Attacked By Type >> Magic = Use Ability >> Taunt



So I think what Shadewarp is saying is that it doesn't look like the "Attack" command is accessible if you're assisting, only if you're setting up a self-based response such as "Self >> Any" or "Self >> Under Attack By Type". This may be on purpose or it may just be on the PS3 version. If anyone else has seen "Attack" under a party member based submenu, please let me know, cos I could make good use of it as well.



Also, I don't see an "Assist" option, IE I would like to see a simplified way of inputting "Party Mage >> Under Attack by Type >> Any = Assist" meaning that the tank would attack and generate threat on any enemy attacking the mage. I do understand, however, that this would take pages and pages of code, and would be rather hard to implement, so that's just a personal nitpicky thing.

[l0rd_Rastas]

I feel that I'm fighting the AI and tactics a lot which is detracting from the enjoyment of the game. I'm regretting buying it on the PS3 and should have picked it up on the PC. Trying to micromanage so many elements on the console is not enjoyable at all. I'm 30 hours in, and the more skills/spells/talents I'm getting the greater the frustration is. Much of my time playing is spent tweaking this stuff.

[AL_Gordi]

i think the games able for pc should be bought first than the normal console ones, because they are easier fixable and it gives a lot more of fun creating our own campaigns, items or characters in this case.

I neither have the ps3 so... :-/

[Finch204]

dlavizzo wrote...

One thing I wish is that you didn't have to use 2 tactics slots to tell your main tank to assist the healer. Currently I have my mage's tank (Alistair at the moment, Shale once I do the DLC on this char) set to the following:

5. Morrigan >> Being Attacked By Type >> Melee or Ranged = Use Ability >> Shield Bash
6. Morrigan >> Being Attacked By Type >> Magic = Use Ability >> Taunt

So I think what Shadewarp is saying is that it doesn't look like the "Attack" command is accessible if you're assisting, only if you're setting up a self-based response such as "Self >> Any" or "Self >> Under Attack By Type". This may be on purpose or it may just be on the PS3 version. If anyone else has seen "Attack" under a party member based submenu, please let me know, cos I could make good use of it as well.

Also, I don't see an "Assist" option, IE I would like to see a simplified way of inputting "Party Mage >> Under Attack by Type >> Any = Assist" meaning that the tank would attack and generate threat on any enemy attacking the mage. I do understand, however, that this would take pages and pages of code, and would be rather hard to implement, so that's just a personal nitpicky thing.

I wouldn't advise setting up taunt like that. I noticed that Taunt has an AOE range associated with it, the farther away the target from your tank is, the less the effect of the taunt. And since a magic type enemy would not be rushing towards your party I don't think it would be that effective (unless your party is actually near the enemy). I personally leave Taunt off the tactic rules and trigger manually, usually when an enemy rushes past my tank, thats the time I use Taunt. They'll usually stop a couple of steps after and turn back to attack my tank.

The "Attack" option is available for that kind of scenario. I have my hound setup like that, attack enemies attacking Morrigan or Leliana. And I use the "Attack" action so that my hound will switch targets right away as soon as the AI picks it up. The problem with using skills for this situations is that skills have cooldowns. While the skill is cooling down, the action won't trigger (that's one reason why sometimes companions just stand around doing nothing) .

Yeah desfinitely the AI needs some work. And I'm certainly excited to see how much improvement they could put into the next Dragon Age game. One thing I would like them to add is a an action that can trigger when enemies are surrounding a party member. There are options for clustered enemies, and when self is surrounded by enemies, but there are no options for triggering an action when a party member is surrounded or swarmed. Leliana's Scattering Shot, and Morrigan's AOE spells can definitely benefit from a rule like that.