155 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Aldora92 wrote...

About retcon... in the DA prim guide it says you can ****** oghren off enough that he fights you, you can then choose to kill him or not... yet he is a main character in awakenings...

you can choose to kill/abandon leliana in lothering or urn quest, yet she is important in DA2...

in Lelianas DLC she says something about choice being a luxury... the story is told but some details are not as they actually happened... she knows what happens at the end, but she cannot decide how she should tell it.

Oghren can't be killed after the fight, only leave.

Lelaina is a retcon but I don't find it to be a big deal.

About the song, Lelaina is a bard and the story is from her prespective. For all we know, Leliana song might be a total lie made up by Leliana while talking to someone. Also she mentions something about changing the story for the person she's saying it for.

[unbentbuzzkill]

some people's wardens were with morrigan so how can she return but they can't.

[Aldora92]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Aldora92 wrote...

About retcon... in the DA prim guide it says you can ****** oghren off enough that he fights you, you can then choose to kill him or not... yet he is a main character in awakenings...

you can choose to kill/abandon leliana in lothering or urn quest, yet she is important in DA2...

in Lelianas DLC she says something about choice being a luxury... the story is told but some details are not as they actually happened... she knows what happens at the end, but she cannot decide how she should tell it.

Oghren can't be killed after the fight, only leave.

Lelaina is a retcon but I don't find it to be a big deal.

About the song, Lelaina is a bard and the story is from her prespective. For all we know, Leliana song might be a total lie made up by Leliana while talking to someone. Also she mentions something about changing the story for the person she's saying it for.

That is my point, from a narrative point of view the whole tale with the warden can be changed to canon.

For each playthrough, we do things differently, this is either who we play as, or the choices we make. there are 14 possibilities of who the warden may actually be... they are male/female versions of every origin/race combo, I am sure of them 16, there is one that is canon, even if we do not know which.

We can choose from 16 wardens to play as, and are given atleast 2 options at almost every stage on the game, these are accept the quest, decline the quest, kill this guy or let him live, side with this guy or that guy... there are so many choices in the game that we must assume that there is a complete list of what is considered cannon, which would more then likely be what adds most depth to the story... this may mean that you sided with Branka in the anvil, because killing her adds no value to the story, siding with her pits you against a friend (if present) gives the dwarves some lost glory, a new set of golems and the posibility of a character returning in future installments... so even if you never once sided with her during each of your playthroughs, because of the depth added to the story, this may be a choice that will be forced upon us in some installment yet to come... (this is an example, and by no means what is actualy going to happen)

[Aldora92]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

some people's wardens were with morrigan so how can she return but they can't.

We have been told that we will not play as the warden again, but his/her story is not yet over...

HAs Morrigan been confirmed as returning? Nope. But the story with Morrigan/Flemeth/OGB/Warden is too deep to leave any of these aspects out of the game, even if you never went through with the ritual, it is clear that it is a major point of the game, you do not introduce such a thing and never make mention of the consequences... Witch Hunt was supposed to tell us what happened, but it raised more questions than it answered,

[shirespartan]

Be nice to see her return, hopefully Bioware get it right bringing her back

[Androme]

Aldora92 nailed it!

[LanceSolous13]

I never understood why we can't leave a quest arc out if someone choose differently in a previous game?

Didn't do the Dark Ritual with Morrigan? You don't get 'x' Quest Line in DAIII and 'x' Companion.

It would certianly make things a lot more diverse if entire quest arcs change or are absent depending on previous actions. Would certainly make the world feel more like clay, you mold it.

If someone complains, the answer is simply that ' if you wanted to do that questline, you should have done the Dark Ritual with Morrigan.

Maybe I'll miss out on a quest or two because I didn't kill that High Dragon protecting the Urn of Ashes in DA:O. Maybe I'll miss out on stuff for not crowning Harrowmont King or siding with the Templars. Oh well, I missed out on some things. I'll have to check them out on a different playthough.

I'd apprecieate it if the game really promoted the idea of multiple playthroughs a bit more.

[unbentbuzzkill]

when morrigan makes her return and i don't get some answers about my warden im gonna throw a fit

[Vicious]

It would certianly make things a lot more diverse if entire quest arcs change or are absent depending on previous actions.

Sure, but dev time isn't limited. It's more cost effective to make stuff everyone can play and enjoy.

Bioware has had a 1 game every 2 years schedule since Baldur's Gate came out in 1998. Except DA:O [which got to sit in limbo due to making significant engine alterations to keep up with modern graphics, no one wanting to publish it until EA showed up, and then porting it to consoles etc] they have kept to it pretty well.


Making a huge game like that would take a lot more time than I think they are willing to perform.

Besides, as they pointed out, people want their choices to have certain effects. when they don't get those effects, or it plays out differently, they get mad, and internet psychosis sets in.

[LanceSolous13]

If you're going to do something, Take the time to do it right.

Learn from the mistakes of Mass Effect 3.

[Phantom089]

I'm not a D.A fan but I hope they make the game right. I hope they don;t forget about Mass Effect. I always liked that Morrigan character. I only played Dragon Age 1. The only reason why I didn't like the game it was because of the gameplay and layouts. I at first thought it was more like Mass Effect and Elders. I can't wait for Mass Effect 4, I'm sure DA3 be great too.

[Saberchic]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I never understood why we can't leave a quest arc out if someone choose differently in a previous game?

Didn't do the Dark Ritual with Morrigan? You don't get 'x' Quest Line in DAIII and 'x' Companion.

It would certianly make things a lot more diverse if entire quest arcs change or are absent depending on previous actions. Would certainly make the world feel more like clay, you mold it.

If someone complains, the answer is simply that ' if you wanted to do that questline, you should have done the Dark Ritual with Morrigan.

Maybe I'll miss out on a quest or two because I didn't kill that High Dragon protecting the Urn of Ashes in DA:O. Maybe I'll miss out on stuff for not crowning Harrowmont King or siding with the Templars. Oh well, I missed out on some things. I'll have to check them out on a different playthough.

I'd apprecieate it if the game really promoted the idea of multiple playthroughs a bit more.

^This. Sweet Maker, make it happen. I love it when my choices have consequences.

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

when morrigan makes her return and i don't get some answers about my warden im gonna throw a fit

They'll probably say something like the warden got to spend some time with Morrigan, but he had to leave for [insert whatever reason the other wardens are doing that is super important]. If your warden went with Morrigan, I doubt he got to stay by her side the whole time.

[SilentK]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

I remember David confirmed recently that the child wouldn't exist if you or Alistair/Logain didn't do the ritual. He said it in response to a poster who adamant that the child would exist no matter what.

Great! I've had a few Wardens who did not allow the Dark Ritual to happen. Very happy that it won't turn up in the story then.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

So if we going by the Pormetheus layout. Now the kid (boy) , had to screw with the archdemon (probably Flemeth) to born some new type of *being*.

[Eshaye]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

-snip-

Could provide quite the interesting varriation.

If the Warden never went through the Eluvian, He was raised by Morrigan and has much the same values as she does.

If the Warden raised him at Morrigan's side, His persionality takes more after his father's but he has his Mother's sarcastic and cynical way of speaking.

If the Warden killed/stabbed Morrigan, The child will be rather agressive and hate the Warden for killing/stabbing Morrigan.

Heck, this could even refect on his class.

If the father was a mage, Then he wields two Mage's staffs and is extremely powerful in terms of spellcasting. (Though, I'm not entirely a fan of this as I had a really awesome Battle Mage which I would love to be passed on to the child)

If his father was a Warrior, He fights with a giant sword and staff, playing the role of Battle Mage.

If his father was a Rogue, He is some Rogue-Mage Hybrid.

If Morrigan's son was never concieved, His lack of presence will be noted and effect how the game progresses.

And if the warden is a woman then the child is Alistair's and a Therein.... Which MAY have significance since 'canon' wise (In the comics) Alistair is king and the Therein family seems to be bound up with Flemeth and Morrigan's story pretty intensely. Or not, but there's all kinds of things Gaider could do with that. 

I just want everything from DA1 and some of 2 to come together and get resolved, hopefully with massive explosions involved... 

[Aulis Vaara]

Han Shot First wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Or, you know, Morrigan's son wouldn't exist in that playthough then...

Sure it would.

Riordan is a perfect out for a writer, if that writer wants to make the OGB a major canon plot point.

Oh right, because ignoring important plot decisions has gone over so well with the fans in the past.

A lot of fans have playthroughs with both the Dark Ritual and without. It felt like a massive decision at the time, and they're expecting big consequences. Not living up to that would possibly ****** fans off even more than the ending of Mass Effect 3.

You COULD have the same companion for both situations with different birth parents. The character would have some differences in either situation, but he'd have the plot point of having to be there for something. However, if he's the OGB, the consequences of him being there would be significantly different from when he's not. Consequences do not always have to be: "the character is there or not", it can easily be: "can he prevent the world from being torn apart or not".

[Bfler]

You have to draw a line somewhere, if you want to tell a story and therefore you can't consider every decision of the player. The OGB is a very important part of the story and if they decide to make it canon, then that's how it should be.
It seems to me that players here want an independent-minded game, which generates the content on basis of every individual decision in the previous games.

[scootermcgaffin]

The more I think about it the more I kind of do want Morrigan to return. Just so I can find out if she's supposed to be a hypocritical little kid who wants to be badass and awesome like mommy but is just really, really, really bad at it or if the reason she was so hypocritical and inconsistent in the first game is because she's the writer's pet character so they just had her say whatever and assumed we'd think she was always right and wonderful and perfect, too.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

The more I think about it the more I kind of do want Morrigan to return. Just so I can find out if she's supposed to be a hypocritical little kid who wants to be badass and awesome like mommy but is just really, really, really bad at it or if the reason she was so hypocritical and inconsistent in the first game is because she's the writer's pet character so they just had her say whatever and assumed we'd think she was always right and wonderful and perfect, too.

I second this. I personally don't like Morrigan and neither do some of my Warden's, because I believe she's nothing but a lier. But I would be interested to see her in another game.....If only to discover what the sneaky Witch has been upto. And find out if she survived my Warden's murder knife of course.

[Bfler]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

I personally don't like Morrigan and neither do some of my Warden's, because I believe she's nothing but a lier. 

Morrigan is one of the most honest chars.  She doesn't reveal everything she knows, but she says what she thinks to your face.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Bfler wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

I personally don't like Morrigan and neither do some of my Warden's, because I believe she's nothing but a lier. 

Morrigan is one of the most honest chars.  She doesn't reveal everything she knows, but she says what she thinks to your face.

Sten is the most honest character.

[scootermcgaffin]

Bfler wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

I personally don't like Morrigan and neither do some of my Warden's, because I believe she's nothing but a lier. 

Morrigan is one of the most honest chars.  She doesn't reveal everything she knows, but she says what she thinks to your face.

That's called "tactless" not "honest."

[KENNY4753]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Bfler wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

I personally don't like Morrigan and neither do some of my Warden's, because I believe she's nothing but a lier. 

Morrigan is one of the most honest chars.  She doesn't reveal everything she knows, but she says what she thinks to your face.

Sten is the most honest character.

Nope, Dog is

[Bfler]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Bfler wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

I personally don't like Morrigan and neither do some of my Warden's, because I believe she's nothing but a lier. 

Morrigan is one of the most honest chars.  She doesn't reveal everything she knows, but she says what she thinks to your face.

That's called "tactless" not "honest."

You call it tactless, if somebody reveals to you what he really thinks?  Ok, then you are maybe a good victim for people like f.e. vacuum salesmen.

Modifié par Bfler, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:51 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Eshaye wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

-snip-

Could provide quite the interesting varriation.

If the Warden never went through the Eluvian, He was raised by Morrigan and has much the same values as she does.

If the Warden raised him at Morrigan's side, His persionality takes more after his father's but he has his Mother's sarcastic and cynical way of speaking.

If the Warden killed/stabbed Morrigan, The child will be rather agressive and hate the Warden for killing/stabbing Morrigan.

Heck, this could even refect on his class.

If the father was a mage, Then he wields two Mage's staffs and is extremely powerful in terms of spellcasting. (Though, I'm not entirely a fan of this as I had a really awesome Battle Mage which I would love to be passed on to the child)

If his father was a Warrior, He fights with a giant sword and staff, playing the role of Battle Mage.

If his father was a Rogue, He is some Rogue-Mage Hybrid.

If Morrigan's son was never concieved, His lack of presence will be noted and effect how the game progresses.

And if the warden is a woman then the child is Alistair's and a Therein.... Which MAY have significance since 'canon' wise (In the comics) Alistair is king and the Therein family seems to be bound up with Flemeth and Morrigan's story pretty intensely. Or not, but there's all kinds of things Gaider could do with that. 

I just want everything from DA1 and some of 2 to come together and get resolved, hopefully with massive explosions involved... 

Even if you put it in quotation mark, it still doesn't make it canon. It's Bioware's canon which should have no bearing on the game itself.