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[The Twilight God]

double post

Modifié par The Twilight God, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:12 .

[The Twilight God]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

I've always hated that speech.

wow I didn't think people like you existed.

As I view it as indoctrinated rambling I can't hate it, per say, but I think it's pretty stupid and doesn't reflect the current situation. 

"I die knowing I did everything " to stop the Reapers? Everything except actually stopping the Reapers. The means to put an end to the Reaper threat is right in front of Shepard. Instead, Shepard allows the Reapers to choose his fate and every other organics' fate. "Freedom" isn't even an issue. Shepard is free as far as he knows. So exactly how does destroying the Reapers strip him of his freedom? Exactly, it doesn't. But Shepard isn't free. Quite the opposite. He is under the control of the Reapers, just as The Illusive Man before him. Unless Shepard's "terms" are being harvested by the Reapers the war cannot possibly end on his terms.

[Jadebaby]

Because of so many reasons. The fact you need to ask proves you didn't pay attention to the story.

Replay the trilogy.

[foilpainter]

I usually pick destroy but all the choices seem like they belong to a different game, doesn't feel like Mass Effect but refusal has that Mass Effect vibe...to me, anyways.

[Annie_Dear]

frostajulie wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...



It was crystal clear.

It was known going in that conventional victory was not a possibility. Refuse could only end in total defeat. Claiming ignorance of the outcime is a load of horse sh*t.

People who say this are either stupid or have not played the previous 2 installments in the trilogy or video games since their inception.  Every video game that has ever been made has ended with victory.  it is the standard expectation that if you push on to the end of a ideo game that you will beat it as in win.

ME1 and ME2 BOTH said you were up against impossible odds and in both games you win.ME3 should have been NO different.  Yeah characters tell you conventional victory is not a possibility its called story, ambience, mood and tone.  But I again will say look at the previous games they said the same mother****ing thing and both times Shepard kicks ass.

Every game from Super mario bothers to Diablo and ME1 and 2 ends with winning the game if you play it write.  Refuse could have and should have been a potential victory because the precedent had been set and no one sets out to play 30 hours of video game just to feel like an utter failure at the end because in the end nothing even matterred.

[Haravikk]

I chose Refuse because I thought I was just being thorough in finding out what all the options were before I actually chose one of them…

Ah well! I'll still go back and try some of the other endings in playthroughs with my other characters, but I don't really like any of the options. I do agree that Refuse seems more in character; attempting to destroy the Catalyst would have made far more sense than accepting one of its bogus solutions.

[LiarasShield]

Maybe because I have a different idea of no surrender then maybe a few others do


And if the creator is flawed then its creation may be no better the leviathans feared synthetics would destroy organics yet they made a ai synthetic in order to preserve life they made the very thing they thought would destroy organics with their own flawed logic

And because a ai doesn't think like a organic is logic can be more flawed or more twisted then the creator its self

All of the reapers sought to destroy us and burn our worlds and finally everyone can just say ok to the one that leads them really

Why is their such a group consensus on being ok with the enemy?

Modifié par LiarasShield, 14 octobre 2012 - 12:37 .

[Xilizhra]

Why is their such a group consensus on being ok with the enemy?

Because the enemy's existence and opinions, in this case, don't matter. What matters is stopping the harvest. Nothing else. The choice here is just to pull the best outcome possible out of that.

ME1 and ME2 BOTH said you were up against impossible odds and in
both games you win.ME3 should have been NO different.  Yeah characters
tell you conventional victory is not a possibility its called story,
ambience, mood and tone.  But I again will say look at the previous
games they said the same mother****ing thing and both times Shepard
kicks ass.

I do hope you people who use this as an argument for conventional victory will back up those who choose Control, despite everyone saying that was impossible as well.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 octobre 2012 - 12:39 .

[LiarasShield]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why is their such a group consensus on being ok with the enemy?

Because the enemy's existence and opinions, in this case, don't matter. What matters is stopping the harvest. Nothing else. The choice here is just to pull the best outcome possible out of that.

ME1 and ME2 BOTH said you were up against impossible odds and in
both games you win.ME3 should have been NO different.  Yeah characters
tell you conventional victory is not a possibility its called story,
ambience, mood and tone.  But I again will say look at the previous
games they said the same mother****ing thing and both times Shepard
kicks ass.

I do hope you people who use this as an argument for conventional victory will back up those who choose Control, despite everyone saying that was impossible as well.

Shepard was able to make the impossiable happen before why not now on the cusp of victory why must shepard be utterly defeated when he or she wasn't that way before?

Also I'm still wondering why control was even a option for shepard because he or she fought the illusive man during the whole course of the game about it and told him that their was no way to control the reapers or that we have to destroy them or they destroy us or how shepard told the illusive man that he was getting too close to the enemy.

[Xilizhra]

Shepard was able to make the impossiable happen before why not now on the cusp of victory why must shepard be utterly defeated when he or she wasn't that way before?

Also I'm still wondering why control was even a option for shepard because he or she fought the illusive man during the whole course of the game about it and told him that their was no way to control the reapers

So you don't see the contradiction in your statements here?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 octobre 2012 - 12:47 .

[LiarasShield]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard was able to make the impossiable happen before why not now on the cusp of victory why must shepard be utterly defeated when he or she wasn't that way before?

Also I'm still wondering why control was even a option for shepard because he or she fought the illusive man during the whole course of the game about it and told him that their was no way to control the reapers

So you don't see the contradiction in your statements here?

Unless your using them as a contradiction no I don't see one I'm talking about shepard wining with his or her own ability with their squad in the past


And I'm wondering why shepard would do 380 character flip after fighting with the illusive man about control why would he or she automaticlly pick control now when he or she just killed the illusive man about it 5 minutes earlyer?

[Xilizhra]

Unless your using them as a contradiction no I don't see one I'm talking about shepard wining with his or her own ability with their squad in the past

I'm saying that Shepard can still do what was claimed to be impossible.

And I'm wondering why shepard would do 380 character flip after fighting with the illusive man about control why would he or she automaticlly pick control now when he or she just killed the illusive man about it 5 minutes earlyer?

TIM was indoctrinated, and at the time, Shepard didn't know that Control was possible. She can change her mind based on new information.

[LiarasShield]

Xilizhra wrote...

Unless your using them as a contradiction no I don't see one I'm talking about shepard wining with his or her own ability with their squad in the past

I'm saying that Shepard can still do what was claimed to be impossible.

And I'm wondering why shepard would do 380 character flip after fighting with the illusive man about control why would he or she automaticlly pick control now when he or she just killed the illusive man about it 5 minutes earlyer?

TIM was indoctrinated, and at the time, Shepard didn't know that Control was possible. She can change her mind based on new information.

She probably could you're right on that but the question would remain as to why when he or she thought it wasn't the way to go and didn't agree with the illusive man all the way up to his death

[Xilizhra]

She probably could you're right on that but the question would remain as to why when he or she thought it wasn't the way to go and didn't agree with the illusive man all the way up to his death

Shepard assumed that TIM was indoctrinated from the very beginning, as Cerberus was basically helping the Reapers by attacking the allied forces, as seen from the line "Thought Cerberus and the Reapers were getting along... what changed?" on Horizon. Horizon was the first place she saw Cerberus' control ideas as an actual threat to the Reapers, and by that time, TIM had already shown obvious signs of indoctrination on Thessia, and did so more on Cronus Station (along with the video of him getting Reaper implants). Hence, it was an easy assumption to make that even if TIM hadn't started out indoctrinated, he became so, and his ideas needed to be argued against then. But that changed upon meeting the Catalyst, when new possibilities opened up.

[LiarasShield]

Xilizhra wrote...

She probably could you're right on that but the question would remain as to why when he or she thought it wasn't the way to go and didn't agree with the illusive man all the way up to his death

Shepard assumed that TIM was indoctrinated from the very beginning, as Cerberus was basically helping the Reapers by attacking the allied forces, as seen from the line "Thought Cerberus and the Reapers were getting along... what changed?" on Horizon. Horizon was the first place she saw Cerberus' control ideas as an actual threat to the Reapers, and by that time, TIM had already shown obvious signs of indoctrination on Thessia, and did so more on Cronus Station (along with the video of him getting Reaper implants). Hence, it was an easy assumption to make that even if TIM hadn't started out indoctrinated, he became so, and his ideas needed to be argued against then. But that changed upon meeting the Catalyst, when new possibilities opened up.

Yeah but I think he only became indoctrinated after he imputed the reaper implants into his body and made the reapers move the citadel to earth.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah but I think he only became indoctrinated after he imputed the reaper implants into his body and made the reapers move the citadel to earth.

Maybe, but the implants happened before Cronos Station, and seemingly before Thessia. And Vendetta referred to the whole of Cerberus as "indoctrinated forces." Simply put, Cerberus and TIM were too far gone for Shepard to agree with anything they did by the time she learned their ideas might actually work.

[LiarasShield]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yeah but I think he only became indoctrinated after he imputed the reaper implants into his body and made the reapers move the citadel to earth.

Maybe, but the implants happened before Cronos Station, and seemingly before Thessia. And Vendetta referred to the whole of Cerberus as "indoctrinated forces." Simply put, Cerberus and TIM were too far gone for Shepard to agree with anything they did by the time she learned their ideas might actually work.

But why would the ideas actually work when those who were indoctrinated before only caused harmed to their friends or caused others to destroy themselves why would the reapers be right now or why would the illusive man be considered right after being indoctrinated we have seen how far the reapers have gone from the doctor from arrival


Way back to saren from me1

Modifié par LiarasShield, 14 octobre 2012 - 01:09 .

[LiarasShield]

I thought the whole reason we were fighting them was because they're wrong or because they're trying to destroy us all while we fight for our survival

[Xilizhra]

But why would the ideas actually work when those who were indoctrinated before only caused harmed to their friends or caused others to destroy themselves why wolud the reapers be right now or why would the illusive man be considered right after being indoctrinated we have seen how far the reapers have gone from the doctor from arrival

Henry Lawson, while certainly very far from morally upstanding, showed no signs of indoctrination; probably he was exempt from the usual Cerberus control procedures because his mind needed to be completely intact. His plan of co-opting the Reapers' control signal was probably moving too slowly to actually bear fruit in time to save the galaxy. but it was working to control husks, at the least; the principle was sound.

I thought the whole reason we were fighting them was because they're
wrong or because they're trying to destroy us all while we fight for our
survival

I fight because they're trying to harvest everyone. If they stop doing that and won't start again...

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 octobre 2012 - 01:12 .

[Davik Kang]

The Twilight God wrote...snip

It's a relief to see that you are making rational points to back up your claims.  It is tiring arguing without logic as seems to be common on forums in genreal, but especially this one  - many threads read like a YouTube comment list.

The Twilight God wrote...
For me it was always Destroy. The idea that because you don't like what has to be done excuses you from doing what has to be done is childish. Tough. You have no choice. You either destroy them, thinking you will kill the Geth, or the Geth all die anyway along with everyone else. Or worst, become a  brainwashed reaper themselves and end up doing the exact same thing to the next cycle. There is no rationalizing Refuse.

I went against refuse for the same reasons you mentioned, though I think it can be ratioanlised.  I seriously disagree with the rationale but that doesn't mean it's objectively wrong.  Also I said it was arguably instinctive for players to initially lean towards refuse, and yes that is childish, but children are more instinctive creatures having not had instincts tempered by social norms.  Nonetheless, I do consider Refuse to be the choice of the righteous college student, and a deeply selfish act.

The Twilight God wrote...
Shepard and Kasumi? Yes. A grey box cannot ever be removed. If it fails she is braindead. Shepard has an synthetic spine in three places. One of which is at the neck (looked like c3 or c4 vertebrae). He would not be able to breathe on his own if that piece failed. If the Quarian ships fail all their food dies so they all starve (if the liveships weren't already destroyed, the air filters on the suits fail, their antibiotic injectors fail. It will cause epidemics for sure.

I think the wiki entry says that removal of the greybox carries a risk of brain damage.  To me that means that greybox failure could kill her, but also implies that it might not.  The fact that it doesn't necessarily have serious implications means that it won't necessarily lead to her death.  For all we know it could be the removal process that actually causes the damage, which would actually lend credence to the possibility that its failure won't kill her.  About Shepard's spine, I don't actually know what the spinal augmentations on Shepard do.  Are they demonstrably so life-vital that their failure or destruction would kill Shepard?  And the thing about Quarian food and medical supplies depends on how long it would take to repair the damage.

The Twilight God wrote...
Davik, the effects on so-called "living synthetic material" isn't really implied. There is no such thing as living synthetiic material other than maybe synthesized material (i.e. husks and reaper "terminators"). Geth are software only. At no point is "synthetic life" ever mentioned. "Synthetics" are defined by the Kid itself as "technology you rely on" ... 

Yep, you're right, no argument here.  I can see how this fuels your Deception theory too.  There are facts in the game, inculding the breath scene, that suggest the Kid is just blatantly lying, when following your logic.  I admit I assumed that Destroy involved some kind of violent shock to computer-based machines (like an EMP but not actually an EMP) that would sabotage and shut down such machines, via overload, with the consequence of severely damaging the core programming of such things, and therefore killing any such programming that had come to resemble consciousness or life.  And I admit I have no actual evidence to believe that, aside from the veiled threat that all synthetic material would be 'destroyed', which I presumed to imply death to Geth, EDI and others (otherwise the threat lacked the immediate credibility and impact required).  Got no concrete evidence for it, just an assumption based on his vague words.  I imagined that the implication meant system failure rather than actual physical destruction, because the Kid did suggest that the damaged technology could be repaired.  But again, it's more an attempt to piece together what the Kid said in a reasonable way on the spot (though this is what Shepard has to do by the way).

Anyway, back OT and in regard to the rest of your post, I pretty much agree to the lot.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:08 .

[wantedman dan]

The Twilight God wrote...

Emotional psychobabble

No, you're simply a petulant child with whom I have no interest in debating. That's pretty much the extent of my disinterest.

[RebelTitan428]

silentassassin264 wrote...

So you are spoiled and didn't get what you wanted so you doomed your entire cycle who was counting on you using the Crucible to save them? Okay.

yeah pretty much, i dont think they would be thanking me after control, When there is no more Shepard to explain why the Reapers are still here.

or Synthesis where every male in the galaxy is now worried because his dick turned green.

[frostajulie]

The Twilight God wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

ME1 and ME2 BOTH said you were up against impossible odds and in both games you win.ME3 should have been NO different. 

You do win if you destroy the Reapers. ME3 is no different. Just getting to the Citadel was supposedly impossible. So don't give me that BS. Hackett is fighting the war. He KNOWS we are losing. He doesn't THINK we are losing. It IS happening. We ARE losing. And you KNOW this. You can lie to yourself and look like a loon all you want, but you KNOW you're full of sh*t. You can no more think conventional victory was possible than you could think water is dry and fire is wet.

You reveal the real reason you choose to delude yourself. You WANT a different ending. Tough. You're not getting a conventional victory. Deal with it.

1. You do NOT win when you pick destroy you kill EDi, the Geth, and risk killing anyone with synthetic implants.  NOT a win for many Shepards as a matter of fact as repeatedly pointed out to you (I guess you can't help full on retard) it is a war crime to all Shepards who cnsider the Geth as a synthetic life form- but hey feel free to ignore fact and evidence just so you can get your dick hard slamming people who disagree with you.

2. You know what lse was impossible besides getting to the citidel?  Going through the Omega 4 relay.  Surviving the Omega 4 relay, defeating the collectors in their own base and coming out alive.  Destroying Sovereign.  All that was impossible yet we did it and won  thats not BS thats Fact  Hackett knows we are losing?  SO what?  Is he god now? Garrus, the illusive man, your entire cast of characters in ME2 KNEW that going through the Omega 4 relay was a suicide mission.  Guess what. dee-deedee they were wrong. 

3. Thank you so much for magically looking inside of my head and suddenly understanding and knowing things about me that I myself was unaware of even though I KNOW we are not losing because we are building up our forces throughout the game which in all games everywhere ever doing so always results in snatching victory from the jaws of defeat I somehow Know we are losing- my my but according to you all knowing all seeing grand master wizard I am just a mass of constipated contradictions<------ see what I did there, I referenced our sarcastic remark about me being full of Sh*t I made a funny.

4. So I lie to myself and I look like a loon?  Thank you oh Jesus for looking inside myself and revealing the depths of my sin Praise you jeebus praise you for that remarkable insight into my character

Considering I backed up my argument pretty coherantly citing precedent both within and without the trilogy your remark clearly illustrates the desperate attack of someone who really has no counterargument to make and is just pissed off that my argument makes more sense than yours.

There there sweet thing.  Don't cry. Its alright your opinion is just as valid as mine from your perspective... its just completely wrong.

5.  Thank you again for pointing out to me what I can and cannot think however have I wived dis wong wifout your help in tewing me what I can and cannot weason on my own.:innocent:  Thank you daddy.

6.  Ah the joys of self delusion- only... wait... wait a minte- ah yes I can dig up 9 threads on the first few pages alone that agree with me completely.  Oh noes its a case of mass deception!!! Didn't that book violate the lore? Oh yes.  Yes it did.  Much like the ending to ME3! Bazinga.

7.  I actually have dealt with the fact that I won't get the ending I want  I never tried to hide the fact that I wanted a different ending one that was consistent with the mythos and lore of the ME universe, consistent with the precedent set in the prior games, an ending consistent with the ending of all games ever everywhere that has me winning rather than choosing between 3 flavors of fail.  However dealing with an issue and forgetting about it are 2 different things.  I will **** about the ME3 ending the loudest and longest that I can until Armegeddon in the hopes I will **** so loud and so long that we will NEVER have a travesty, mockery, horrible, disappointing end to any game ever like this again.  And you my dear all-wise-all-knowing-all-powerful-reader-of-the-minds-of-men can deal with THAT. or not  no skin off my nose.

Extra Credit

Water is dry?  Oh it is very real 
http://io9.com/56189...istic-batteries
Fire is wet?
Well I would contend that Lava is molten rock it is like liquid fire and there are 2 kinds of lava, dry and wet, wet lava is lava that is accompanied by gas and steam.  So as Obi-wan said it is true from a certain point of view


Ah..ahhhh...ahhhhhhhh<3  Anybody got a cigarette?

[Xilizhra]

2. You know what lse was impossible besides getting to the citidel? Going through the Omega 4 relay. Surviving the Omega 4 relay, defeating the collectors in their own base and coming out alive. Destroying Sovereign. All that was impossible yet we did it and won thats not BS thats Fact Hackett knows we are losing? SO what? Is he god now? Garrus, the illusive man, your entire cast of characters in ME2 KNEW that going through the Omega 4 relay was a suicide mission. Guess what. dee-deedee they were wrong.

Interestingly, everyone else was also wrong when they said the Reapers couldn't be controlled.