422 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Thinking your alternative "seems fishy" isn't a great reason for choosing a path that leads to certain destruction

Well certainly with that logic jumping into to random beams of energy or blowing up a tube is are much more viaible options.

Sure. Any chance beats zero chance.

[frostajulie]

Xilizhra wrote...

2. You know what lse was impossible besides getting to the citidel? Going through the Omega 4 relay. Surviving the Omega 4 relay, defeating the collectors in their own base and coming out alive. Destroying Sovereign. All that was impossible yet we did it and won thats not BS thats Fact Hackett knows we are losing? SO what? Is he god now? Garrus, the illusive man, your entire cast of characters in ME2 KNEW that going through the Omega 4 relay was a suicide mission. Guess what. dee-deedee they were wrong.

Interestingly, everyone else was also wrong when they said the Reapers couldn't be controlled.

I know right?  I have no issue with control being 1 potential ending. Just as I have no issue with refuse and lose being a potential ending but refuse and win was the ending that matched precedent with the entire industry and as Bioware has stated thats why it was not an option, artistic integrity (read high off sniffing their own farts) Personnally I feel the control epilogue to be the most emotonally satisfying speech since ME1 when Shepard boards the Normandy and giver her full on paragon speech before going after Sovereign.  I do not choose control because it did not fit any of my Shepards characters.  Killian woud have refused had I imported her.  JD understands sacrifice and does not consider synthetics to be alive she chose destroy easily.  Calli is the destroyer of worlds she got off on destroy. Bathsheba chose synthesis because I wanted to see the EC version of that ending. It did not fit her character but I had already chosen refuse with her.  After that the only ending for me and all my Shepards is refuse, it is the only ending that does not assassinate the character of my ladies.

Modifié par frostajulie, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:49 .

[The Spamming Troll]

in ME2 i completed what was a called a "suicide mission" and the only person that i lost, was NO ONE.

hell one time i almost saved kaiden AND ashley in ME1.

i used to tell people i picked destroy because thats what i did on both my runs. but now i tell people i pick refuse and just turn the game off and headcannon a epicly awesome conventional victory ending.

as if im gonna allow myself to go along with mac and hudson refuse ending. what a bunch of fools.

[Davik Kang]

frostajulie wrote...

you can get your dick hard slamming people ...
Guess what. dee-deedee they were wrong...
Thank you so much for magically looking inside of my head ...
according to you all knowing all seeing grand master wizard I am just a mass of constipated contradictions...
I look like a loon?  Thank you oh Jesus for looking inside myself and revealing the depths of my sin Praise you ...
There there sweet thing.  Don't cry...
Thank you daddy...
Ah the joys of self delusion...
Bazinga...
my dear all-wise-all-knowing-all-powerful-reader-of-the-minds-of-men...
Water is dry?  Oh it is very real...
Fire is wet?...
Ah..ahhhh...ahhhhhhhh<3  Anybody got a cigarette?

wtf just happened

Modifié par Davik Kang, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:54 .

[AlanC9]

The Twilight God wrote...

As I view it as indoctrinated rambling I can't hate it, per say, but I think it's pretty stupid and doesn't reflect the current situation. 

"I die knowing I did everything " to stop the Reapers? Everything except actually stopping the Reapers. The means to put an end to the Reaper threat is right in front of Shepard. Instead, Shepard allows the Reapers to choose his fate and every other organics' fate. "Freedom" isn't even an issue. Shepard is free as far as he knows. So exactly how does destroying the Reapers strip him of his freedom? Exactly, it doesn't. But Shepard isn't free. Quite the opposite. He is under the control of the Reapers, just as The Illusive Man before him. Unless Shepard's "terms" are being harvested by the Reapers the war cannot possibly end on his terms.

While this is a valid interpretation of the speech, I don't think it's a necessary one. Shepard really could be reacting like some players, who find the Reapers so abhorrent that they refuse to do anything that even feels like cooperation with them. Thus turning a virtue into a tragic flaw, and dooming Shepard to total failure with victory in his grasp.

Haven't played a Shep like that yet, but I'm considering it for my no-import run.

[babachewie]

Die free? No surrender? That doesnt even make any sense in the context of what is happening. What are you surrendering to? By choosing refuse you don't die free. You die ignorant. Using the crucible is the only option. It seems the reason people dont choose is because they catalysts options....which I'm gonna stop right there and say they arent the catalysts options. They are the millions of cycles that came before's options. So by not using it you basically ignore that.The catalyst didnt build it. You did. The galaxy did. How can it be against your own interests?

[wantedman dan]

babachewie wrote...

Die free? No surrender? That doesnt even make any sense in the context of what is happening. What are you surrendering to? By choosing refuse you don't die free. You die ignorant. Using the crucible is the only option. It seems the reason people dont choose is because they catalysts options....which I'm gonna stop right there and say they arent the catalysts options. They are the millions of cycles that came before's options. So by not using it you basically ignore that.The catalyst didnt build it. You did. The galaxy did. How can it be against your own interests?

Genocide, authoritarianism, or eugenics is against my interests.

[TheHugoGamer]

I chose refuse in extended cut, just because it had the best writing and dialogue in the entire ending. It said exactly what I wanted Shepard to say, and the starbrat with reaper voice gave me goosebumps.

Makes what happened afterwards even more of a shame, really. Almost thought they would make a good ending, but you cant always get what you want.

[babachewie]

wantedman dan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Die free? No surrender? That doesnt even make any sense in the context of what is happening. What are you surrendering to? By choosing refuse you don't die free. You die ignorant. Using the crucible is the only option. It seems the reason people dont choose is because they catalysts options....which I'm gonna stop right there and say they arent the catalysts options. They are the millions of cycles that came before's options. So by not using it you basically ignore that.The catalyst didnt build it. You did. The galaxy did. How can it be against your own interests?

Genocide, authoritarianism, or eugenics is against my interests.

Also understanding the story it seems.

[AlanC9]

wantedman dan wrote...
Genocide, authoritarianism, or eugenics is against my interests.

Which would make sense if Refuse actually prevented genocide. It doesn't.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 octobre 2012 - 04:17 .

[wantedman dan]

babachewie wrote...

Also understanding the story it seems.

Your mother.

[AlanC9]

wantedman dan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Also understanding the story it seems.

Your mother.

Really?

[wantedman dan]

AlanC9 wrote...

It doesn't.

So?

[wantedman dan]

AlanC9 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Also understanding the story it seems.

Your mother.

Really?

Considering that was the intellectual equivalent of his response, it was warranted. You actually thought that was serious reply?

[babachewie]

AlanC9 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Also understanding the story it seems.

Your mother.

Really?

hahaha!

[Mello]

The endings suck.
Might as well lose the game by choosing refusal.

[Maxster_]

AlanC9 wrote...

Which would make sense if Refuse actually prevented genocide. It doesn't.

Yeah. That is why it ... well, bad. Not choice by itself, it's consequences.
It is only ethical choice, and it leads to everyone ending up dead.
Real realistic choice would be surrendering and picking destroy. But it doesn't fit series, and changes themes.
I don't like that in game. It is written very badly, it contradicts spirit of series. Bad way to end trilogy.

[babachewie]

wantedman dan wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

Also understanding the story it seems.

Your mother.

Really?

Considering that was the intellectual equivalent of his response, it was warranted. You actually thought that was serious reply?

All I said is you didnt understand the story. Which you clearly didnt if that was your response. You should be mad at yourself. By the way my mother doesnt understand it either. So you were correct anyway. 

[wantedman dan]

babachewie wrote...

All I said is you didnt understand the story. Which you clearly didnt if that was your response. You should be mad at yourself. By the way my mother doesnt understand it either. So you were correct anyway. 

So basically, I don't understand it because you say so. Thanks for your wonderful exposition of intelligence.

[babachewie]

wantedman dan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

All I said is you didnt understand the story. Which you clearly didnt if that was your response. You should be mad at yourself. By the way my mother doesnt understand it either. So you were correct anyway. 

So basically, I don't understand it because you say so. Thanks for your wonderful exposition of intelligence.

No you didnt get it because you didnt get it. I'm not trying to trash you but if you paid attention to the story or heck even read the wikis, you would have a different opinion. I'm not gonna try to change your mind . It would take to long to explain everything. 

Modifié par babachewie, 14 octobre 2012 - 04:33 .

[wantedman dan]

babachewie wrote...

No you didnt get it because you didnt it. I'm not trying to trash you but if you paid attention to the story or heck even read the wikis, you would have a different opinion. I'm not gonna try to change your mind . It would take to long to explain everything. 

wantedman dan wrote...

So basically, I don't understand it because you say so. Thanks for your wonderful exposition of intelligence.

[frostajulie]

babachewie wrote...

Die free? No surrender? That doesnt even make any sense in the context of what is happening. What are you surrendering to? By choosing refuse you don't die free. You die ignorant. Using the crucible is the only option. It seems the reason people dont choose is because they catalysts options....which I'm gonna stop right there and say they arent the catalysts options. They are the millions of cycles that came before's options. So by not using it you basically ignore that.The catalyst didnt build it. You did. The galaxy did. How can it be against your own interests?

Actually by choosing refuse my Shepards are not choosing to die because we already know the ending many people forget that Shepard does not. Shepard however in choosing refuse is open to the fact that defeat is possible but given the alternatives a risk worth taking.

What are you surrenderring to: well you surrender your free will to the arbitrary whims of an AI you have no reason to trust at its words particularly if in your mind the synthetic vs organic issue was settled on Rannoch.

In destory you surrender to the belief that shooting a pipe will allow you to destroy the reapers. You surrender to death and you surrender to genocide as a viable and goal worthy alternative to doing what Shepard has always done and fight to the end and win.

In choosing synthesis you surender to the reapers, its what they want all organic minds fused with synthetics and one big happy collective of beings.  Synthesis sounds to me like exactly what Sanctuary and the collector base was doing to the people of the galaxy only like a modified shortcut.

In control you surrender to the idea that the illusive man was right and Control is the only way which reminds me of Harbinger wanting to use my organic goo to power his synthetic goo in ME2

By choosing refuse I die no more ignorant than in any of the other three options destroy hass me gasping one last breath under a pile of rubble, synthesis has me mind melding with space robots, not Shepard anymore, control has me mind melding with space robots and bossing them around, not Shepad anymore but AI shepard.

Based on those decisions and how I and by extension my Shepards view them only I have metagame knowledge of the outcomes of each, it is only logical and resonable to expect my Shepard to choose refuse and do what she has always done since ME1, fight her hardest, unify everyone and kill all the bad guys and win.  I for one would always rely on myself and my own proven capabilities before I would take the word of a 3D holographic image torn from my own mind no less that told me I could not win I could only choose from 3 flavors of fail.

Yes we built the catalyst but we did not design it as such when the options it gives me to end the conflict all sound like options for surrender and not fight and win I and Shepard choose to be suspicious, worry that something got missed and then in the end depend on what has repeatedly saved ours and the galaxy's ass many times over- Humanity and the allied races collective will, skill and ability to win.

While loss is a possibility, victory seems surer when you go with what you know rather than dicey alternatives offerred up by an AI that turns into Harbinger after you refuse.

I really like your interpretation that the catalysts options are not the catelysts options but rather the options of all the races from previous cycles that built the crucible but wouldn't Leviathan invalidate this belief since the catelyst is the creation of the Leviathans and then he turns into harbinger when you refuse or shoot him in the face?  It seems to me that the crucible was a way to interact with the catelyst but the choices he gives all seem to serve his own ends. Part of the reson why refuse is so attractive to me the player. We built the crucible and thus can use it to interface with the catelyst we did not however build the catelyst he was built by the Leviathans... or am I missing something?

And respectfuly I will disagree with you when you say Die free and no surrender make no sense in the context of the ending.  I think I explained why and to the best of my ability have presented my perspective. From that perspective I think it makes sense.

But I am a self deluded constipated loon with no notion or understanding of whats going on in my own mind so pfft don't listen to me:O

[Davik Kang]

Maxster_ wrote...
Yeah. That is why it ... well, bad. Not choice by itself, it's consequences.
It is only ethical choice, and it leads to everyone ending up dead.

It is only ethical for the individual.  You'd actually rather let everybody die than make a disgusting decision?  Seriously?  

What do you think they'd have you do, the people of the galaxy?  Some would beg you to choose Destroy, others plead with you to go with Control, more still would pray that you chose Synthesis.  

But who would go "oh yeah man, it's hard on you, pick Refuse.  We all die but the important thing is, your moral integrity is intact."?

If there was a moral decision which also saved everybody, everyone would pick it.  It wouldn't be a choice.  I get that a lot of players didn't want a choice.  They wanted ME1 and ME2 to matter more.  But then, if the result of ME3 was just a consequence of ME1 and ME2 choices, what did ME3 matter for?  Every game had a difficult choice to make at the end.  In ME1 and ME2 there were more blatant Paragon choices.  In this it was more difficult.  If it were a simple chioce of Good Ending and Bad Ending, would that have been better?  No.  The final choice was based on your understanding of the ME universe, your interpretation of the events leading up to it, and your views on life, on politics, and being a soldier.  It was actually an interesting choice, not a basic Hope vs Practicality choice.

[Xilizhra]

It was actually an interesting choice, not a basic Hope vs Practicality choice.

Personally, I consider Destroy the practicality and everything else the hope, in various forms.

[AlanC9]

wantedman dan wrote...

babachewie wrote...

No you didnt get it because you didnt it. I'm not trying to trash you but if you paid attention to the story or heck even read the wikis, you would have a different opinion. I'm not gonna try to change your mind . It would take to long to explain everything. 

wantedman dan wrote...

So basically, I don't understand it because you say so. Thanks for your wonderful exposition of intelligence.

Was he maybe making the same point I was? Refuse doesn't lead to less genocide than Destroy; it leads to even more genocide.