frostajulie wrote...
babachewie wrote...
Die free? No surrender? That doesnt even make any sense in the context of what is happening. What are you surrendering to? By choosing refuse you don't die free. You die ignorant. Using the crucible is the only option. It seems the reason people dont choose is because they catalysts options....which I'm gonna stop right there and say they arent the catalysts options. They are the millions of cycles that came before's options. So by not using it you basically ignore that.The catalyst didnt build it. You did. The galaxy did. How can it be against your own interests?
Actually by choosing refuse my Shepards are not choosing to die because we already know the ending many people forget that Shepard does not. Shepard however in choosing refuse is open to the fact that defeat is possible but given the alternatives a risk worth taking.
What are you surrenderring to: well you surrender your free will to the arbitrary whims of an AI you have no reason to trust at its words particularly if in your mind the synthetic vs organic issue was settled on Rannoch.
In destory you surrender to the belief that shooting a pipe will allow you to destroy the reapers. You surrender to death and you surrender to genocide as a viable and goal worthy alternative to doing what Shepard has always done and fight to the end and win.
In choosing synthesis you surender to the reapers, its what they want all organic minds fused with synthetics and one big happy collective of beings. Synthesis sounds to me like exactly what Sanctuary and the collector base was doing to the people of the galaxy only like a modified shortcut.
In control you surrender to the idea that the illusive man was right and Control is the only way which reminds me of Harbinger wanting to use my organic goo to power his synthetic goo in ME2
By choosing refuse I die no more ignorant than in any of the other three options destroy hass me gasping one last breath under a pile of rubble, synthesis has me mind melding with space robots, not Shepard anymore, control has me mind melding with space robots and bossing them around, not Shepad anymore but AI shepard.
Based on those decisions and how I and by extension my Shepards view them only I have metagame knowledge of the outcomes of each, it is only logical and resonable to expect my Shepard to choose refuse and do what she has always done since ME1, fight her hardest, unify everyone and kill all the bad guys and win. I for one would always rely on myself and my own proven capabilities before I would take the word of a 3D holographic image torn from my own mind no less that told me I could not win I could only choose from 3 flavors of fail.
Yes we built the catalyst but we did not design it as such when the options it gives me to end the conflict all sound like options for surrender and not fight and win I and Shepard choose to be suspicious, worry that something got missed and then in the end depend on what has repeatedly saved ours and the galaxy's ass many times over- Humanity and the allied races collective will, skill and ability to win.
While loss is a possibility, victory seems surer when you go with what you know rather than dicey alternatives offerred up by an AI that turns into Harbinger after you refuse.
I really like your interpretation that the catalysts options are not the catelysts options but rather the options of all the races from previous cycles that built the crucible but wouldn't Leviathan invalidate this belief since the catelyst is the creation of the Leviathans and then he turns into harbinger when you refuse or shoot him in the face? It seems to me that the crucible was a way to interact with the catelyst but the choices he gives all seem to serve his own ends. Part of the reson why refuse is so attractive to me the player. We built the crucible and thus can use it to interface with the catelyst we did not however build the catelyst he was built by the Leviathans... or am I missing something?
And respectfuly I will disagree with you when you say Die free and no surrender make no sense in the context of the ending. I think I explained why and to the best of my ability have presented my perspective. From that perspective I think it makes sense.
But I am a self deluded constipated loon with no notion or understanding of whats going on in my own mind so pfft don't listen to me:O
Well at least the last sentence makes me not have to point that out to you. haha! JK. Defeat isn't just possible. Its a sure thing knowing what you "should" know by the end. No reason to trust? Heres the thing. People say reapers lie. I've never seen once where Soveriegn or Harbinger or any Reaper lied to you. They don't really need to. They are all powerful. They are not even at war in their mind. They're doing a job and they check out their time card for another 50,000' years and wake up to do it again. And you can say Indoctrinated forces are being lied to but they are tools to use to complete their job. You wouldnt lie to your lawnmower to cut grass. You'd turn the key or pull the cord.
The Reapers always showed up when tensions between synthetic and organic races were at its apex. The Crucible is a machine built and added to over countless cycles originally designed to destroy the reapers. Destroy. That was its purpose from the get go. It didnt discriminate against friend or foe synthetics because they're werent any friendly ones as far we know. So it didnt matter. Then Control was added sometime after that in one of the previous cycles. Synthesis was the only one added by our cycle. Everything the crucible is, is because of races who are on our side. Who wanted to end the cycle. And its called cycles for a reason. You learn the prothean cycle is coincidentially simular to ours. They had their Cerburus type faction as well that wanted control. I'm sure the one before that was just as simular and before that as well and so on. The irony about control is you can't control whats already controlling you. Thats why it worked for Shepard and wouldnt of for TIM. The same with synthesis. It would of never worked for Saren. He was corrupted. His DNA mixture would of infected the entire universe and everyone probably would of been indoctrinated. Even the lesser species the reapers didnt want to mess with. Shepard is pure and untainted. Thats why it works. Plus Saren was going in a more brutal cyborg route in merging synthetics and organics. Synthesis isnt like that.
Also the catalyst doesnt turn into harbinger. Its just its regular voice when not in kid avatar mode. Its basically like whatever. I told you what was up and you just wanna sit here and die. no skin off my back. i still gotta job to do and he did it.
Personally I don't see any ending,except refuse, being any better or worse than the other. Its all about the what ending goes well with what shepard you're trying to create.
Modifié par babachewie, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:12 .
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:O turned his arguments against me and the weakness imposed upon my arguments by his clever name calling and off color statments and assimilated them to make me stronger.
:kissing:Loon loon loony! WHOOT!
