18 réponses à ce sujet

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

I have a most unusual situation with respect to the "droppable" tick box on a creature's inventory with respect to its armour.

The creature is a goblin that has leather armour, a morningstar and a light shield. (I also have the exact same goblin, but armed with a light crossbow and bolts and a dagger in its inventory.)

The leather armour is made NON DROP for both creatures. Here is the problem :-

I save the toolset, knowing the armour is non drop - even pop back into the creature and triple check. I then close the toolset and open it again. When I check the melee goblin, its armour has been made droppable! The range creature's goblin is still non drop!

I really have no idea how this has happened and am at a loss. I even copied the melee goblin from the ranged goblin template, just in case something was corrupt there, but no!

Does anybody have any idea why this is happening, or if they have also had this happen?

I will even make a short video I think to show it happening. (I decided to upload a small mod instead. See below.)

Cheers.
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:52 .

[I_Raps]

First, the obvious. Do you have another copy of the goblin.utc overriding your changes?

BTW - "I" before "E" is the norm, but "weird" isn't normal;  it's weird.

Modifié par I_Raps, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:31 .

[Lance Botelle]

I_Raps wrote...

First, the obvious. Do you have another copy of the goblin.utc overriding your changes?

BTW - "I" before "E" is the norm, but "weird" isn't normal;  it's weird.

Hi I_Raps,

That was also my "typing before brain" going into action ....  You caught it before I did. (I normally try to correct all my typos before anybody else can see them, but you beat me to it there.)

As for the copy of the goblin, I believe the short answer is no, but I will go and check.

Back soon.

Lance.

[Lance Botelle]

Hi Again,

No, I even erfed the two goblins out and tried a new module and still had the same problem.

I have uploaded a very small mod to test this if you like:

https://docs.google....REJ2dWJHNy1taWc

Could you test it for me (or anybody else who may be interested to try)?

Thanks,
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:47 .

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

This problem actually gets worse (for me at least), as when I do a debug test, the armour says it is non droppable - I have the creature call out the droppable flag state - and yet I have had the armour drop!

Anybody else?

Lance.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

It's an old bug. When you save, all the equipped items get the same droppable flag state, and all the unequipped items get the same flag state. The way around it is to set all the equipped items to be undroppable, and then to add a second set of droppable items to the unequipped inventory. So when the goblin dies, you'll be able to loot the second morningstar.

Your other option is to go through the inventory at runtime, either on-spawn or on-death to set the appropriate flags.

[Lance Botelle]

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

It's an old bug. When you save, all the equipped items get the same droppable flag state, and all the unequipped items get the same flag state. The way around it is to set all the equipped items to be undroppable, and then to add a second set of droppable items to the unequipped inventory. So when the goblin dies, you'll be able to loot the second morningstar.

Your other option is to go through the inventory at runtime, either on-spawn or on-death to set the appropriate flags.

Hi Lugaid,

Thank you for that! (EDIT: Although my own creatures are the same with what they drop apart from the weapons and one drops the armour and the other does not. Oh well, I will still try what you say.)

I do recall discovering a weird problem once before with this, but that was to do with my own campaign items (that used the same resref as the OC) would revert to OC items instead of my equipped campaign ones on death, but this was a slightly different problem.

The way you explained it makes sense when I look at what is supposed to drop and what is not. At least now you have given me the cause and a couple of potential fixes. I wil now sort that problem out before getting back to module building proper.

Much thanks again.
Lance.

EDIT: I tried doing the fix by script (at spawn and on death but had no joy. I will use the first method ... and if you don't hear from me again, you know it worked. )

EDIT: On a quick test, that does appear to have worked, but I will spend a little more time trying to find a scripted method to fix it because I am bound to forget this when equipping creatures at build time.

EDIT: Actually, this problem is even worse than I realised. For instance, as a test, I thought I would add a scroll to the goblin (even though he cannot cast it) and even though everything was set as droppable, he still only dropped a ring that was alongside the scroll.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 13 octobre 2012 - 10:48 .

[MarshallV]

 I can suggest another alternative.  You can just make any items that are equipped non droppable and any loot you want to drop, use my Legends Loot Plugin.  It works for both PW and most SP modules (just ignore the database part for SP modules).   You can get it here:  http://www.nwn2legends.com

You can see the how to use videos for it HERE

Cheers!

Marshall

Modifié par MarshallV_ForgotMyAccount, 14 octobre 2012 - 12:34 .

[I_Raps]

This thread had me digging into my toolset. Just Thursday night, I was playing SOZ again and encountered one of my custom encounters, the Ogre Warband; and the Warlord dropped his blade, just like he's always done. So you had me wondering, "how the heck did I do that?"

Looking at the Ogre Warlord in the toolset provided the answer - he has a half-dozen items equipped and undroppable, and a droppable copy of the sword in his backpack. Apparently I knew this approach two years ago but have forgotten in the meantime.

[diophant]

I had the same trouble with goblins, too. Not knowing what was the reason, I solved it by destroying the leather armor on death. Just another workaround for this annoying bug...

[Shaughn78]

I ran into this same issue. In the changing to droppable flag the game draws a distinction between equipped and non-equipped items. I generally do the same as I_raps and add items to the non_equipped items that I want to have dropped and leave the equipped items as undroppable.

[Lance Botelle]

MarshallV_ForgotMyAccount wrote...

 I can suggest another alternative.  You can just make any items that are equipped non droppable and any loot you want to drop, use my Legends Loot Plugin.  It works for both PW and most SP modules (just ignore the database part for SP modules).   You can get it here:  http://www.nwn2legends.com

You can see the how to use videos for it HERE

Cheers!
Marshall

Hi Marshall,

What a fascinating system! I just watched every video and wished I had seen it some time ago. One half of me wants to try to incorporate it, the other half is concerned about how much it would interefer with my own systems currently in place. This is definitely something I would have used if I had not already done what I have, and I am still considering taking a look and see if it is possible to incorporate some of it.

Thanks for sharing this system and making some excellent infomrative videos. Now to really give this some thought.

EDIT: I just looked at some of your world's screenshots .... I love seeing people design and use new GUIs in their games .. and yours looked great! Makes me want to take a closer look at your code ... if I only had more energy and time in a day.

I_Rapps wrote...

This thread had me digging into my toolset. Just Thursday night, I was playing SOZ again and encountered one of my custom encounters, the Ogre Warband; and the Warlord dropped his blade, just like he's always done. So you had me wondering, "how the heck did I do that?"

Looking at the Ogre Warlord in the toolset provided the answer - he has a half-dozen items equipped and undroppable, and a droppable copy of the sword in his backpack. Apparently I knew this approach two years ago but have forgotten in the meantime.

Hi I_Rapps,

I did some digging around in my own scripts and have currently (I have only just come back to looking at it again) come to the conclusion that when you first set the droppable items, it will drop or not drop what you set - and you should basically ignore whatever you see when you go back into the properties to look at it again, because they will mislead you to what is actually set. Furthermore, what it displays when you go back into the properties after checking it the first time wil vary according to whatever you first had set (similar to what you had said before). So, if you go back to look at what you set th efirst time, you can basically ignore whatever it syas, because if you try to chang eit, the chances are you are messing with what you had first set (and appears to work - although I am still testing). I am still uncerain about the goblin drops though, and will test a little more to be "sure".

EDIT: I still have the armour drop problem, so I am still looking at this.

Diophant wrote...

I had the same trouble with goblins, too. Not knowing what was the reason, I solved it by destroying the leather armor on death. Just another workaround for this annoying bug...

Hi Diophant,

The goblins do appear to be the first culprit I found that has given me more grief than usual. I wonder if there is something particular with them, or it just happens to be the first type of creature we notice the problem. I also considered destroying the leather armour, but in my last test (where I simply ignored what the toolset was telling me and tried anyway) and the armour decided not to drop anymore. Confusing to say the least, but if I don't intend to go back and change anything, then maybe and as long as I do set it right in the first place, I just don't go back into the creature's properties. As I say though, I am still testing this and won't take these results as good until I have more certainty. Furthermore, I had (and now removed) another script which was checking inventory drops that (while should not have affected what was being dropped) may have complicated matters. As I say, I have removed that for now, and will look at that again if need be. I need the original drops to work as they should before I go with that script as well.

EDIT: I still have the armour drop problem, so I am still looking at this.

Shaughn78 wrote...

I ran into this same issue. In the changing to droppable flag the game draws a distinction between equipped and non-equipped items. I generally do the same as I_raps and add items to the non_equipped items that I want to have dropped and leave the equipped items as undroppable. 

Hi Shaughn78,

If I have to, then I will do the same. However, if I can cover myself with a script or a method that avoids having to remember this extra step I will, as I am bound to forget this otherwise. As I say, I have had success with NOT going back into the settings to check the properties ... and if I leave them alone (and ignore what they now say), it has (so far in my testing) worked as I thought it should. Until I have done a few more days testing, I will not believe it as a safe and secure means of dropping.

EDIT: I still have the armour drop problem, so I am still looking at this.

And of course, that then makes me think of Marshall's system again .... it appeals to me a great deal, but I am not sure I want to look at the time I may need to spend trying to integrate that one.

Anyway, thanks everyone .... I will continue testing and let you know if I do "discover" anything more than what people have already mentioned. And of course, I am still ready to listen to other people's experiences and resolutions.

Many Thanks all,
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:26 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

How did I never know about this bug???

[kamal_]

What Lugaid and I_Raps said is true. I'd forgotten about this bug as well, but their statements jogged my memory.

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

For the time being, I am opting for the "simplest" method available (which is basically what you guys are saying), that appears to work consistently from testing to date. (I will let you know if that changes.) And that is to resign to the fact that I will simply keep the right hand pane (equipped items) always NON DROP and place whatever I want to DROP in the left hand "inventory" pane.

OK, so it will mean placing the item I want equipped and droppable in both panes, but at least that is the easiest thing for me to remember to do. And if this method works with my other inventory script, then I will be good to go (again).

Thanks again all.
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:58 .

[Lance Botelle]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

How did I never know about this bug???

Hi Kaldor,

You may have been like me and not thought of it as being as insiduous as it turns out to be. Also, for myself, I simply had not had to test "normal" monster drops as much as I have lately, because that is the stage of my module I am at.

kamal_ wrote...

What Lugaid and I_Raps said is true. I'd forgotten about this bug as well, but their statements jogged my memory.

Hi Kamal,

The frustrating thing is, I did know a little about this bug because I had come across something similar to this many months (possibly years) ago, but did not realise it was a bad as this turned out to be. It just shows you only really find things when you reach that point of the module creation really.

Lance.

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

The problem I had before (which you may also want to know about and may have mentioned above, but will mention again here, because it does still occur), is that if you make a campaign version of an item, but keep the same template/tag (which you can do in a campaign), and add the campaign version of the item to a creature placed in an area. On death, the item changes to the OC version of the item and not my version that has a description that I want instead of the OC version.

I mention that in case other builders do the same - and may have missed the difference with the item that drops. (NB: It only goes wrong for creatures already placed in an area and not ones spawned as far as I can see.) Of course, the argument may be that I should always use spawnings rather than have creatures directly placed, but there you go.

Lance.

[I_Raps]

That's another one I've sort-of-known about without knowing I knew it since the first days of SOZ. To wit, I would make a composite bow out of a piece of timber, enchant it to +1 and sell it, then when you come back to the merchant, the enchantment is gone.  And of course, enchanting anything and having its original name string show up.

I would never rely on anything not reverting unless its tag and resref are unique.

Modifié par I_Raps, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:26 .

[Lance Botelle]

I_Raps wrote...

That's another one I've sort-of-known about without knowing I knew it since the first days of SOZ. To wit, I would make a composite bow out of a piece of timber, enchant it to +1 and sell it, then when you come back to the merchant, the enchantment is gone.  And of course, enchanting anything and having its original name string show up.

I would never rely on anything not reverting unless its tag and resref are unique.

Hi I_Raps,

I never knew the "store" version of the problem. That's a nuisance. I will have to check that for my own module as well now ...

EDIT: SOME GOOD NEWS: I tested my enchanting a longbow and altering its name and selling it. When I bought it back, it still had all the correct properties and the same name! Yeh! So that works at least.

On the other problem (loot drops), I am a little closer to solving the problem. I just have an identify issue to deal with now. Why do I feel like I am always "fixing" something before actually using it!

Cheers,
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:40 .