475 réponses à ce sujet

[string3r]

I agree that some of it was nitpicky, but the whole Normandy getting to Earth so fast was a bit silly imo. It took longer for Joker to get to Shepard in the opening, and he was already on Earth.

[Applepie_Svk]

string3r wrote...

I agree that some of it was nitpicky, but the whole Normandy getting to Earth so fast was a bit silly imo. It took longer for Joker to get to Shepard in the opening, and he was already on Earth.

He was even somewhere in the same town, if not in same complex of buildings... but you know art...

[Seival]

Why do some people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but do not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

This is called double standards.

Both evac scenes are fine if you analize them without unneeded emotions, and without a goal just to make complaint no matter what it will be about.

Modifié par Seival, 14 octobre 2012 - 12:55 .

[dreamgazer]

Seival wrote...

Why do people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

Oh, they do. 

You inadvertantly bring up an interesting point, though: Shepard and Anderson have to wait a good deal longer for the Normandy to arrive at the beginning than the crew does at the end, and the stakes are fairly comparable. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival wrote...

Why do people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

Oh, they do. 

You inadvertantly bring up an interesting point, though: Shepard and Anderson have to wait a good deal longer for the Normandy to arrive at the beginning than the crew does at the end, and the stakes are fairly comparable. 

There's another bit that makes me wonder. If the Normandy can just fly next to the beam, and the Reaper IFF is what's keeping Harbinger from recognizing it. Why the hell do we just not fly to the beam on the Normandy to begin with, drop of a few guys next to it, and make a run for it?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 octobre 2012 - 01:07 .

[hukbum]

Seival wrote...

Why do some people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but do not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

Glad you know what others are thinking, or that you watched the other vids as well.

Seival wrote...

Both evac scenes are fine if you analize them without unneeded emotions, and without a goal just to make complaint no matter what it will be about.

Jep. Of course they are. Why were shuttles needed again in ME2? Ah, who cares ...

[hukbum]

Greylycantrope wrote...

There's another bit that makes me wonder. If the Normandy can just fly next to the beam, and the Reaper IFF is what's keeping Harbinger from recognizing it. Why the hell do we just not fly to the beam on the Normandy to begin with, drop of a few guys next to it, and make a run for it?

Sshhh ... don't tell 'em ...

[Seival]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival wrote...

Why do people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

Oh, they do. 

You inadvertantly bring up an interesting point, though: Shepard and Anderson have to wait a good deal longer for the Normandy to arrive at the beginning than the crew does at the end, and the stakes are fairly comparable. 

Never seen complaints about evac scene in the beginning. Because it's clear that Normandy managed to get so close unnoticed because of Reaper IFF and stealth systems. When Reapers got the visual contact it was too late. This is what makes Normandy unique.

Waiting time was far too short even in the beginning. In real life they had to wait several hours. So what? It's just a cutscene from the game, not a "documentary film".

Evac scenes are fine.

[GreyLycanTrope]

hukbum wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

There's another bit that makes me wonder. If the Normandy can just fly next to the beam, and the Reaper IFF is what's keeping Harbinger from recognizing it. Why the hell do we just not fly to the beam on the Normandy to begin with, drop of a few guys next to it, and make a run for it?

Sshhh ... don't tell 'em ...

but...but...okay...

[Seival]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Probably should bring up.
The collectors easily spotted a stealthy Normandy SR2 and proceeded to try and destroy it.
You could say they knew the signal could not be a another Reaper.
But then again if a Reaper landed in front of Harbinger and didn't do anything, he would know it was not a Reaper.

It doesn't hold well.

Collectors spotted SR2 by visual contact. Normandy's initial path was too open, and too close to collector automated fighters hidden in the debris, remember?

Harbinger has to have a confirmation that it's not going to shoot another Reaper. When it got the visual confirmation, it was too late - Normandy started to fly away. Do you really think it's easy to get a visual on some low-altitude flying vessels? Especially when explosions, dust, and debris all around? That was not a short-distance space combat.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Seival wrote...

Why do some people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but do not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

This is called double standards.

Both evac scenes are fine if you analize them without unneeded emotions, and without a goal just to make complaint no matter what it will be about.

Because there are different set of circumstances occurring in each scene. The first evac, the Normandy is already within Earth's atmosphere. In fact, it likely has a comparable altitude to your everyday 747 at this junction. In addition, the Reapers are not specifically targeting or defending a particular point of interest. They are merely attacking en masse. While the scene is far from perfect, namely due to the Normandy suddenly being capable of landing on planets at will. It does not break the lore or have to teleport to its destination from outer space.

I also fancy your assumption people only call to question the narrative simply to whine. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the scene not being well written.

Seival wrote...

Collectors spotted SR2 by visual contact. Normandy's initial path was too open, and too close to collector automated fighters hidden in the debris, remember?

Harbinger has to have a confirmation that it's not going to shoot another Reaper. When it got the visual confirmation, it was too late - Normandy started to fly away. Do you really think it's easy to get a visual on some low-altitude flying vessels? Especially when explosions, dust, and debris all around? That was not a short-distance space combat.

If the Collectors determined the Normandy as an adversary after it crossed the Omega-4 Relay, despite the activation of the IFF. What prevented Harbinger from doing the same? I do, seeing any warship worth its salt would be equipped with on board software that would not be hindered by explosions or dust. If that were the case, the Reaper war ought to be a snap for the Krogan.

I also question your interpretation of the IFF. There is no indication it did anything except allow for a safe passage through the Omega-4 Relay. Where is there any evidence "Friend/Foe" extended beyond that one Relay?

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 14 octobre 2012 - 01:57 .

[OdanUrr]

Seival wrote...

Why do some people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but do not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

This is called double standards.

Both evac scenes are fine if you analize them without unneeded emotions, and without a goal just to make complaint no matter what it will be about.

I respectfully disagree. Forgetting for one moment the technical impossibility of having the SR2 land on Earth, the evac scene at the beginning of the game makes sense: Shepard needs to leave Earth in order to coordinate a galaxy-wide effort to defeat the Reapers. At the end, however, it's more than a little contrived. First, there's the fact that the SR2 arrives mere seconds after Shepard puts a call for it; second, would Shepard really order the evac of his companions (one of which is fine) while other troopers are dead or dying as well?; third, why doesn't Harbinger shoot the SR2 down?; fourth, if the SR2 can easily join the battle on the ground, why didn't the battle plan call for the SR2 attacking any Reapers near the beam?

No, what would've made more sense was if after Harbinger decimates the platoon, your companions get separated from you and, assuming (with some evidence, naturally) you died, they're ordered to retreat with the remaining survivors, where they board a shuttle and return to the FOB and then to the Normandy.

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival wrote...

Why do people complain about "Normandy evac" in the ending, but not complain about exactly the same "Normandy evac" in the very beginning of the game?

Oh, they do. 

You inadvertantly bring up an interesting point, though: Shepard and Anderson have to wait a good deal longer for the Normandy to arrive at the beginning than the crew does at the end, and the stakes are fairly comparable. 

Never seen complaints about evac scene in the beginning. Because it's clear that Normandy managed to get so close unnoticed because of Reaper IFF and stealth systems. When Reapers got the visual contact it was too late. This is what makes Normandy unique.

Waiting time was far too short even in the beginning. In real life they had to wait several hours. So what? It's just a cutscene from the game, not a "documentary film".

Evac scenes are fine.

Jesus every time when I see this argument I want to vomit...
Evac scene is not fine, it´s totally worthless piece of excuse how much did the writers screw up, when you are turning the rules of basic logic and your writting against yourself in order to excuse own mistake. 

Main differences betwen evac scenes in Vancouver and London:

Vancouver - 
waiting for extraction, Normandy is docked in the town and even better probably same complex of buildings, it tooks time till Normandy came to save Shepard and Anderson

London -
Normandy is on the orbit of Earth, Normandy is almost instantly teleported from the battle right in front of beam, Harbinger is like doll staying and watching how Shepard gives hugs to his/her LI, Harbinger stop shooting for awhile because you know little bit drama for hug scene or Vega´s monkey face, evac for 2 people in most crucial moment of battle, atleast 30 seconds of empty drama ...


Only thing which is common for both scenes is that Normandy escaping unharmed from the threat of Reapers because of art and space magic and if you have a better explanation than please tell me, but don´t try that crap with IFF. IFF is transmiter which allows Normandy travel thru Omega 4 relay and nothing more, it´s a key to gate and not disguisement for a Reaper.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:12 .

[Maxster_]

With Reaper IFF blinding reapers in point blank range, every character becomes even more dumb.
Entire priority:earth is completely unneeded then, not just ground assault.
You just load Normandy with support troops, and drop Shepard, squad and those troops right before the beam.
Reapers wouldn't even have the time to react, by turning off the beam, let alone descend from orbit.

[Seival]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Because there are different set of circumstances occurring in each scene. The first evac, the Normandy is already within Earth's atmosphere. In fact, it likely has a comparable altitude to your everyday 747 at this junction. In addition, the Reapers are not specifically targeting or defending a particular point of interest. They are merely attacking en masse. While the scene is far from perfect, namely due to the Normandy suddenly being capable of landing on planets at will. It does not break the lore or have to teleport to its destination from outer space.

I also fancy your assumption people only call to question the narrative simply to whine. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the scene not being well written.

It's unknown where was Normandy exactly when called for evac in both scenes. It could be not too far away in the Earth atmosphere in both cases. There is nothing illogical in that.

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
If the Collectors determined the Normandy as an adversary after it crossed the Omega-4 Relay, despite the activation of the IFF. What prevented Harbinger from doing the same? I do, seeing any warship worth its salt would be equipped with on board software that would not be hindered by explosions or dust. If that were the case, the Reaper war ought to be a snap for the Krogan.

I also question your interpretation of the IFF. There is no indication it did anything except allow for a safe passage through the Omega-4 Relay. Where is there any evidence "Friend/Foe" extended beyond that one Relay?

As I said, Normandy passed too close to debris with hidden collector fighters, which got the visual contact. After that each collector vessel was informed about the Normandy. There was no massive battle around. It was not too hard to track one ship in open space, when they already knew about the ship presence.

Modifié par Seival, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival wrote...

As I said, Normandy passed too close to debris with hidden collector fighters, which got the visual contact. After that each collector vessel was informed about the Normandy. There was no massive battle around. It was not too hard to track one ship in open space, when they already knew about the ship presence.

So you are saying that occuly which is Reaper tech can recognize enemy ship on visual range with installed IFF and attack it, but Harbringer cannot ? that´s logical ? ... cought

[dreman9999]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. You can go one and on about it was not directly told to you but it's a simple thing of something yu can see on you own. Story is also something the reader and viewer can also connect on there own.

2. The issues of why it's not shooting the normady is the issue here , not it shooting...But if you really want to know how...Look at my first point.

3.But it is an issue of preferance. Not everyone will have as much as an issues with itas you do. That's what your missing here. It just a case of your opinion.

No, it is the narrative's requirement to allow is suspension of disbelief. If the Normandy can abruptly disengage from a combat zone and stop in front of Harbinger without being shot dead, all in a matter of seconds. The plot had better display how these events are in anyway plausible. Short of doing so, we have a random sequence of contrived events with no consistency.

Your first, and only, point essentially says, "It happened in a cut-scene. Therefore, it mus be legit." Why is Harbinger not firing on the Normandy? There is no explanation, nor an exposition on Reaper weaponry. We have just witnessed Harbinger firing indiscriminately on Alliance personal. Say he run out of energy, then the narrative must elude to this to refute the prior scene, where Harbinger was blasting everything to pieces in five second intervals.

An opinion is a subjective claim not necessarily presented with fact, although it can. A strict opinion would be saying, "I don't like Harbinger in this scene." What I said is an objective analysis, wherein I ask how particular events occur after the plot does not explain them.

1.You do understand that those narrative requirments are not set in stone and the write can apply it anyway they want as long as the result is fine.
I don't need to see EDi go on to the normady to see that she did. If she is on the ground at one point that much lateron seen on the normady...with all the capability the normady has I can see how that happen. A story doesnot need to tell everything, just the background to allow it to happen. A thing smudboy doesnot get which many people have brought up to him.
Example: The movie inception takes it's time to explain the details and background of it's dream tech....In the end of the movies, we are never told if it's a dream or not...It's left yo use to decide if it's real or not.

2. As I said before, that is an issue with harbinger not firing on the normady.

3.The problem here is that you think this is being objective. You missing the fact here that not as many people are bothered by it. Which makes it a case of preferance.

[fr33stylez]

1) Smudboy video gets posted
2) "I hate his voice! What a stupid jerk!"
3) "Any comments on any of the points he made?"
4) I didn't watch it! It's garbage!"
5) Mod closes thread

[AlexMBrennan]

1.You do understand that those narrative requirments are not set in stone and the write can apply it anyway they want as long as the result is fine.

Lol, no.

3.The problem here is that you think this is being objective. You missing the fact here that not as many people are bothered by it. Which makes it a case of preferance.

Lol, no - appeal to popularity. By spewing logical fallacies you've just comprehensively disqualified from this discussion (i.e. your exclusive reliance on logical fallacies means that you are not capable of having an argument because you do not understand the basic principles of how argument work)

The fact that few people are bothered by the bad writing does not change that it's bad writing. It's perfectly possible to enjoy the game despite the bad writing.

[Seival]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Seival wrote...

As I said, Normandy passed too close to debris with hidden collector fighters, which got the visual contact. After that each collector vessel was informed about the Normandy. There was no massive battle around. It was not too hard to track one ship in open space, when they already knew about the ship presence.

So you are saying that occuly which is Reaper tech can recognize enemy ship on visual range with installed IFF and attack it, but Harbringer cannot ? that´s logical ? ... cought

Let's see. Collector fighters were hidden several hundreds of meters away from Normandy's initial path, so they detected SR2 visually without any problems. There was no massive battle with a lot of friendlies and hostiles, or destroyed city around.

Harbinger is 2 km long. According to its size in the "final run" scene, Harbinger was 6km (or more) away from the beam. We've seen that its shots were too random. Harbinger was in hurry and used all frontal lasers to concentrate on the ground forces.

There is massive battle all around. The entire London is filled by explosions, dust clouds, and falling buildings. This is complete mess. Reaper and United fleet forces are all around, and engaged in close combat. Normandy flied on low altitude, and used the battlefield for visual cover. Harbinger had no time to react on Normandy which "appeared from nowhere" and flied away as fast as it appeared.

Reaper IFF, plus massive planetside battle within a large city, plus Joker as a pilot. This is what makes both Normandy evac scenes logical.

Modifié par Seival, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:48 .

[Maxster_]

fr33stylez wrote...

1) Smudboy video gets posted
2) "I hate his voice! What a stupid jerk!"
3) "Any comments on any of the points he made?"
4) I didn't watch it! It's garbage!"
5) Mod closes thread

And then cycle repeats.

[Maxster_]

Seival wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Seival wrote...

As I said, Normandy passed too close to debris with hidden collector fighters, which got the visual contact. After that each collector vessel was informed about the Normandy. There was no massive battle around. It was not too hard to track one ship in open space, when they already knew about the ship presence.

So you are saying that occuly which is Reaper tech can recognize enemy ship on visual range with installed IFF and attack it, but Harbringer cannot ? that´s logical ? ... cought

Let's see. Collector fighters were hidden several hundreds of meters away from Normandy's initial path, so they detected SR2 visually without any problems.

Harbinger is 2 km long. According to its size in the "final run" scene, Harbinger was 6km (or more) away from the beam. We've seen that its shots were too random. Harbinger was in hurry and used all frontal lasers to concentrate on the ground forces.

There is massive battle all around. The entire London is filled by explosions, dust clouds, and falling buildings. This is complete mess. Reaper and United fleet forces are all around, and engaged in close combat. Normandy flyed on low altitude, and used the battlefield for visual cover. Harbinger had no time to react on Normandy which "appeared from nowhere" and flied away as fast as it appeared.

Reaper IFF, plus massive planetside battle within a large city, plus Joker as a pilot. This is what makes both Normandy evac scenes logical.

LOL.
So, Harbringer can't see frigate, but can see individual soldiers.
Seems legit

Also, Harbringer forgets that he have main gun, that can level entire towns from orbit.
He is retarded and blind