475 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...
The game itself proves many times that Reaper warships are designed for close combat against large targets. That's why they need many types of additional units on their side.

Apart from the fact that the codex directly contradicts that assertion, being designed for one role does not make then ineffective or unusuble in another.

Whether Harbinger is designed for taking on other warships in close combat or not (it's the latter, sorry) is irrelevant. It has a point defense system for taking out smaller targets. Thi system is very accurate. It uses this system to shoot at the Hammer forces running at the Conduit. There's no reason it can't shoot at the Normandy. 

But the game shows otherwise. If using an "air defence" in that case could produce some valuable results, then Harbinger would use it. But it didn't... For several reasons:

 - It was too late to use "air defence". Normandy arrival was a surprise.
 - The "air defence" has very limited effective range, and Harbinger was 6km (or more) away.
 - The "air defense" is ineffective against barriers of ships, because it was designed to defend warship against fighters.

Everything we see in action has higher priority than codex or any speculation. If codex "says something else" it means that we have a bug or a typo in codex.

[Ithurael]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Shadrach 88 wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No one respond, it will keep going if you do!

But I wanted to discuss Indoctrination theory!

This proves IT

You know, I actually just saw a great vid by Archengia
youtu.be/cVU5BHJYgGM

He goes on a sh*t ton of rants but his thoughts are very well stated and not as - smug - as smudboy. Though Smudboy, despite being a massive nitpicker, is dead on in every statement he gives during his vid.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...
The game itself proves many times that Reaper warships are designed for close combat against large targets. That's why they need many types of additional units on their side.

Apart from the fact that the codex directly contradicts that assertion, being designed for one role does not make then ineffective or unusuble in another.

Whether Harbinger is designed for taking on other warships in close combat or not (it's the latter, sorry) is irrelevant. It has a point defense system for taking out smaller targets. Thi system is very accurate. It uses this system to shoot at the Hammer forces running at the Conduit. There's no reason it can't shoot at the Normandy. 

But the game shows otherwise. If using an "air defence" in that case could produce some valuable results, then Harbinger would use it. But it didn't... For several reasons:

The rapid and precise annihiliation of almost the entire force running at the beam apparently isn't indictive that it was using it? Right. 

- It was too late to use "air defence". Normandy arrival was a surprise.

It was floating there for a good 15 seconds or more. Plenty of time. 

- The "air defence" has very limited effective range, and Harbinger was 6km (or more) away.

Conjecture. Contradicted by the ease in which anything else was destroyed at a similar range. 

- The "air defense" is ineffective against barriers of ships, because it was designed to defend warship against fighters.

Conjecture. The Normandy is only a stealth frigate, not even a full frigate, smaller, less powerful, more of a large fighter than a battleship. I see no reason why Harbinger can't shoot at it, even if it can't destroy it. Or use its main gun, which it has more than enough time to use. 

Everything we see in action has higher priority than codex or any speculation. If codex "says something else" it means that we have a bug or a typo in codex.

Or BW got lazy and forgot about consistency. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:32 .

[Seival]

@The Night Mammoth

Many lucky random shots doesn't make them precise. And it was clear that 15 seconds wasn't enough to even start to attack the Normandy, you can't deny that. Harbinger didn't attack Normandy, because it couldn't, or decided that the attack would be too ineffective. And more importantly, Normandy wasn't even its primary target (the ground team was).

Modifié par Seival, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:45 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

@The Night Mammoth

Many lucky random shots doesn't make them precise.

You're grasping at straws. 

And it was clear that 15 seconds wasn't enough to even start to attack the Normandy, you can't deny that.

I can. And do. We've seen Reapers charge their weapons faster than that and blast much bigger ships to pieces with a single shot. I see no reason why Harbinger couldn't do the same with the Normandy. 

Harbinger didn't attack Normandy, because it couldn't or decided that the attack would be too ineffective.

Conjecture. 

And more importantly, Normandy wasn't even its primary target, the ground team was.

I think the Normandy, the tip of the spear and most important ship in the galaxy, is more important that a couple of marines making it a few metres further than they would have otherwise. 

[dorktainian]

at the end of mass effect 2 it shows the reapers are of differing designs. yet mass effect 3 shows them only being 2 types. so who was in charge of continuity for that one?

oh and harbinger wasnt interested in the normandy at all. he was only interested in indoctrinating shepard. nothing else mattered to it. IT succeeded. the end.

[Applepie_Svk]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

And more importantly, Normandy wasn't even its primary target, the ground team was.

I think the Normandy, the tip of the spear and most important ship in the galaxy, is more important that a couple of marines making it a few metres further than they would have otherwise. 

When everyone thinks so much, I think for a change that explosion of Normady would execute whole Hammer´s advance.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:10 .

[Seival]

dorktainian wrote...

at the end of mass effect 2 it shows the reapers are of differing designs. yet mass effect 3 shows them only being 2 types. so who was in charge of continuity for that one?

oh and harbinger wasnt interested in the normandy at all. he was only interested in indoctrinating shepard. nothing else mattered to it. IT succeeded. the end.

Please, don't turn this thread into another "IT-fest".

The Harbinger didn't attack Normandy because it couldn't do that effectively, and didn't even consider it as a main target. The only reason why Harbinger even landed was to stop the ground team from reaching the beam.

Ground team managed to destroy the beam defences, and looks like Harbinger wasn't too far away. Landing and moving additional hasks required a lot of time, and wouldn't be too effective against the rushing infantry, who didn't even want to engage in combat, but rather just run into the beam instead (no matter the great casualties). So Harbinger landed and started to fire randomly towards the ground team direction. That was the only thing it could do. And it almost succeded. Only Shepard and Anderson managed to reach the Citadel alive.

Modifié par Seival, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:33 .

[Nachtdaemmerung]

The entire beam sequence will never ever make any sense from a narrative point, with EC or without it...

The Reapers moved the Citadel to Earth to protect it. The backdoor isn't needed at the moment, I'm pretty sure that the Reapers could wait a week or a month or a year to annilihate any resistance before starting to build a new Reaper.

If the beam is needed for whatever reason and can't be shut of when needed: Then the Reapers should protect it. But not with Marauder Shields, the Three Husketeers and an obviously blind Harbinger but with ten Souvereign-class Reapers surrounding the beam. They are invincible and their numbers are vast enough to do that. One blind Harbinger alone destroyed most of the remaining Hammer forces except for two people...just think what ten of them could do...maybe even hitting a nearby Normandy just by chance.

And another ten Reapers could be simply in standby in low orbit to permantly bomb the beam site just in case, so no ground forces can get anywhere near it.

On the other hand, if Harbinger for whatever reason couldn't see and fire at the Normandy...why they didn't used a shuttle for evac (which is smaller and harder to see and not needed to protect the Crucible)? Why doesn't Joker use the nice & sweet Thanix cannons on Harby to get rid of him or at least to distract him from shooting Hammer down...ah, I remember: The beam prevented the calling in of air support...*sigh*

[Eterna]

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

Modifié par Eterna5, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:40 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

I didn't know Habinger was blind as well as a stupid. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

at the end of mass effect 2 it shows the reapers are of differing designs. yet mass effect 3 shows them only being 2 types. so who was in charge of continuity for that one?

oh and harbinger wasnt interested in the normandy at all. he was only interested in indoctrinating shepard. nothing else mattered to it. IT succeeded. the end.

Please, don't turn this thread into another "IT-fest".

The Harbinger didn't attack Normandy because it couldn't do that effectively, and didn't even consider it as a main target. The only reason why Harbinger even landed was to stop the ground team from reaching the beam.

Ground team managed to destroy the beam defences, and looks like Harbinger wasn't too far away. Landing and moving additional hasks required a lot of time, and wouldn't be too effective against the rushing infantry, who didn't even want to engage in combat, but rather just run into the beam instead (no matter the great casualties). So Harbinger landed and started to fire randomly towards the ground team direction. That was the only thing it could do. And it almost succeded. Only Shepard and Anderson managed to reach the Citadel alive.

You know that's all conjecture, right? You realize there are other far more plausible explanations as to why this scene was balls? 

[clennon8]

Eterna5 wrote...

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

Yeah, no, that is some seriously watered down sauce.  Having a Reaper IFF doesn't mean you can land right in front of Harbinger with impunity.

You drones are hilarious.

Modifié par clennon8, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:45 .

[Fixers0]

Eterna5 wrote...

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

If Harbinger can hit alliance marines with pinpoint accuracy then why couldn't it notice the marines running from an to the normandy? 

[Seival]

Eterna5 wrote...

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

Plus visual contact is too difficult in such a mess, when so many friendlies and hostiles around, both flying and non-flying. Plus all those explosions, dust clouds, and ruins around. I wonder how Harbinger managed to understand were are the targets right now at least approximately. Its attack was very deadly and lucky in fact. But it still didn't manage to kill Shepard and Anderson.

[clennon8]

Watch the drones scramble to come up with their hilariously awful rationalizations for why the EC didn't suck balls.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Eterna5 wrote...

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

Let me ask again than: If the Normandy can just fly next to the beam, and the Reaper IFF is what's keeping Harbinger from recognizing it. Why the hell do we just not fly to the beam on the Normandy to begin with, drop of a few guys next to it, and make a run for it?

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:52 .

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

at the end of mass effect 2 it shows the reapers are of differing designs. yet mass effect 3 shows them only being 2 types. so who was in charge of continuity for that one?

oh and harbinger wasnt interested in the normandy at all. he was only interested in indoctrinating shepard. nothing else mattered to it. IT succeeded. the end.

Please, don't turn this thread into another "IT-fest".

The Harbinger didn't attack Normandy because it couldn't do that effectively, and didn't even consider it as a main target. The only reason why Harbinger even landed was to stop the ground team from reaching the beam.

Ground team managed to destroy the beam defences, and looks like Harbinger wasn't too far away. Landing and moving additional hasks required a lot of time, and wouldn't be too effective against the rushing infantry, who didn't even want to engage in combat, but rather just run into the beam instead (no matter the great casualties). So Harbinger landed and started to fire randomly towards the ground team direction. That was the only thing it could do. And it almost succeded. Only Shepard and Anderson managed to reach the Citadel alive.

You know that's all conjecture, right? You realize there are other far more plausible explanations as to why this scene was balls? 

I know there was an attempt to critique the scene unconstructively, and the attempt has failed.

[Seival]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

Let me ask again than: If the Normandy can just fly next to the beam, and the Reaper IFF is what's keeping Harbinger from recognizing it. Why the hell do we just not fly to the beam on the Normandy to begin with, drop of a few guys next to it, and make a run for it?

Because initially the beam was protected by the destroyer and ground forces, which were located right infront of the beam, not 6km away.

[hukbum]

Seival wrote...

Because initially the beam was protected by the destroyer and ground forces, which were located right infront of the beam, not 6km away.

So the Reaper IFF only works with Harbinger, and the Destroyer had no rubble in the eye?

[Eterna]

Fixers0 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

^ Reaper IFF.

Also:

Harbinger thinks the Normandy is a Reaper.

If Harbinger can hit alliance marines with pinpoint accuracy then why couldn't it notice the marines running from an to the normandy? 

Because humans don't appear as Reapers on his Scanners. The Nomrandy does. Your first mistake is assuming that Reapers see like Organics do. They don't have eyes. 

[Eterna]

clennon8 wrote...

Watch the drones scramble to come up with their hilariously awful rationalizations for why the EC didn't suck balls.

Stop adding bull**** to this conversation. Find something better to do with your time than throw a tempertantrum. 

[obZen DF]

Argh!! Not Smudboy again!

[Fixers0]

Eterna5 wrote...

Because humans don't appear as Reapers on his Scanners. The Nomrandy does. Your first mistake is assuming that Reapers see like Organics do. They don't have eyes. 

And the Humans who enter the normandy just "dissapear" on it's scanners? wouldn't that raise some suspision by Harbinger?

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

at the end of mass effect 2 it shows the reapers are of differing designs. yet mass effect 3 shows them only being 2 types. so who was in charge of continuity for that one?

oh and harbinger wasnt interested in the normandy at all. he was only interested in indoctrinating shepard. nothing else mattered to it. IT succeeded. the end.

Please, don't turn this thread into another "IT-fest".

The Harbinger didn't attack Normandy because it couldn't do that effectively, and didn't even consider it as a main target. The only reason why Harbinger even landed was to stop the ground team from reaching the beam.

Ground team managed to destroy the beam defences, and looks like Harbinger wasn't too far away. Landing and moving additional hasks required a lot of time, and wouldn't be too effective against the rushing infantry, who didn't even want to engage in combat, but rather just run into the beam instead (no matter the great casualties). So Harbinger landed and started to fire randomly towards the ground team direction. That was the only thing it could do. And it almost succeded. Only Shepard and Anderson managed to reach the Citadel alive.

You know that's all conjecture, right? You realize there are other far more plausible explanations as to why this scene was balls? 

I know there was an attempt to critique the scene unconstructively, and the attempt has failed.

If you say so. 

Seems to have been reasonably successful as it has pointed out a myriad of flaws that can't be explained without assuming a pile of things. It would fail if smudboy didn't have a point, but he does, and once again, I find you floundering to plug the holes in BioWare's sinking ship.