305 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost]

lol @ Firebase Kitchen!

[Rebel_Raven]

jpraelster93 wrote...

Yes because the sex of the character determines how good it is

I'm pretty certain you don't care either way about the gender, but every time I hear that it's like
"No! Make'em male! Gimme more male characters!" coz it sounds like a person is arguing against the addition of female characters.

If gender doesn't matter, why would one be upset at people requesting a certain gender? Coz unless one wants it to be that gender, it shouldn't matter, should it?

Why is asking for a specefic gender -wrong-? Variety is the spice of life, is it not? Especially in a progressive universe such as Mass Effect where defaulting to the male gender should not exist.

But that's just my 2 cents.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 14 octobre 2012 - 05:02 .

[Vandicus]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Misterpinky0 wrote...

I think that all classes should be gender-swappable. Being a guy, I play guys as I feel I can role-play them better. I imagine that the opposite is true for most female players (it certainly is true for my sister, who I got into Mass Effect). So, it would be great if you could just play as either gender for any classes (excluding mono-gender species, of course) instead of needing to worry about adding new classes of specific gender.

As much as I like the idea, the problem is there's a lot of races out there that are stubbornly represented by one gender and may as well be monogendered races.

As it stands now, the gender toggle won't work beyond humans, and quarians.

Maybe in the future, when Bioware has time to figure out how females will look, they'll add them, then add the gender toggle, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It took an entire trilogy, and a lot of DLCs just to settle on what a female turian looks like.

Don't krogan females and salarian females from SP look about the same as the male ones?

Just wondering, are you bothered by the salarian male units in MP? Since their society is matriarchical I find that every Salarian combatant we ever meet being male implies that their societal structure doesn't support females as combatants any more than it does males as political leaders. Which doesn't bother me in the least. Alien cultures, imo should have alien belief systems. I'd see why you might be bothered by Turians, as their established social structure includes female combatants, but does an alien society which disincludes female combatants bother you when female combatants from that society aren't included in MP?

As a long time fan of online competitive shooters, I have the attitude that (fluff)customization or roleplaying characters doesn't really matter at all in an online shooter, balanced and fun gameplay and strong competition are the important aspects. As such, I naturally view any requests for enhanced (fluff)customization, such as a gender toggle, as a waste of resources. That's why I oppose a gender toggle.

[Vandicus]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Yes because the sex of the character determines how good it is

I'm pretty certain you don't care either way about the gender, but every time I hear that it's like
"No! Make'em male! Gimme more male characters!" coz it sounds like a person is arguing against the addition of female characters.

If gender doesn't matter, why would one be upset at people requesting a certain gender? Coz unless one wants it to be that gender, it shouldn't matter, should it?

Why is asking for a specefic gender -wrong-? Variety is the spice of life, is it not? Especially in a progressive universe such as Mass Effect where defaulting to the male gender should not exist.

But that's just my 2 cents.

Female models have smaller hit boxes. Yes, it does matter. 

Why a person would be uspset, I imagine, is because resources that go into making a largely cosmetic option(that also tends to unbalance competitive online pvp) can't be used for something else. It easily feels like political pandering rather than focusing on what's important in a shooter, and that would be the gameplay. In ME3 the issue largely is relegated to models and resources, as opposed to the counterarguments normally brought up in a competitive online fps(which ME3 MP is not). Reskins and extensive power re-use, would again, be a waste of a DLC. Female hanar, elcor, volus,(or a more unique version of current races like the Havoc brought in jetpacks and stims) sure. More reskins like human X? Not really interested.

[Cyonan]

Vandicus wrote...

Female models have smaller hit boxes. Yes, it does matter. 

Why a person would be uspset, I imagine, is because resources that go into making a largely cosmetic option(that also tends to unbalance competitive online pvp) can't be used for something else. It easily feels like political pandering rather than focusing on what's important in a shooter, and that would be the gameplay. In ME3 the issue largely is relegated to models and resources, as opposed to the counterarguments normally brought up in a competitive online fps(which ME3 MP is not). Reskins and extensive power re-use, would again, be a waste of a DLC. Female hanar, elcor, volus,(or a more unique version of current races like the Havoc brought in jetpacks and stims) sure. More reskins like human X? Not really interested.

That's actually a myth that isn't entirely true.

Hit boxes can very easily be scaled so that they're the same size as the male model, and it happens rather often in games specifically so that you don't have issues with the female characters being harder to hit than the males.

[Vandicus]

Cyonan wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Female models have smaller hit boxes. Yes, it does matter. 

Why a person would be uspset, I imagine, is because resources that go into making a largely cosmetic option(that also tends to unbalance competitive online pvp) can't be used for something else. It easily feels like political pandering rather than focusing on what's important in a shooter, and that would be the gameplay. In ME3 the issue largely is relegated to models and resources, as opposed to the counterarguments normally brought up in a competitive online fps(which ME3 MP is not). Reskins and extensive power re-use, would again, be a waste of a DLC. Female hanar, elcor, volus,(or a more unique version of current races like the Havoc brought in jetpacks and stims) sure. More reskins like human X? Not really interested.

That's actually a myth that isn't entirely true.

Hit boxes can very easily be scaled so that they're the same size as the male model, and it happens rather often in games specifically so that you don't have issues with the female characters being harder to hit than the males.

Just trying to explain the opposition's point of view. Its not that people who oppose its inclusion are sexist or bigots, its simply that resources are going to something that may negatively impact gameplay(as far as they know) or at the very least does not benefit their experience.

Much like people on the DA3 forums vehemently oppose multiplayer(far more vehemently than I've seen anyone here oppose female chars or gender toggles). They're concerned that it takes resources away from something they want. They're not prejudiced against people who play multiplayer or enjoy online gaming, they simply want more resources devoted to their desires than to something they don't care for.

Because of this proponents of any particular use of resources are not only combatting folks who actively dislike its implementation(say if day/night cycles were added which presumably most people don't hate), but you're also combatting folks who are indifferent to it.

[Foxtrot813]

As long as you're okay with them making only half of what the male characters do.

[Deucetipher]

Marksman + Tac Cloak would likely be too potent a combination, imo.

[Deadlysyns]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Yes because the sex of the character determines how good it is

I'm pretty certain you don't care either way about the gender, but every time I hear that it's like
"No! Make'em male! Gimme more male characters!" coz it sounds like a person is arguing against the addition of female characters.

If gender doesn't matter, why would one be upset at people requesting a certain gender? Coz unless one wants it to be that gender, it shouldn't matter, should it?

Why is asking for a specefic gender -wrong-? Variety is the spice of life, is it not? Especially in a progressive universe such as Mass Effect where defaulting to the male gender should not exist.

But that's just my 2 cents.

its because asking once is not enough for you people you need to keep bringing it up after every new DLC 

[Cyonan]

Vandicus wrote...
Just trying to explain the opposition's point of view. Its not that people who oppose its inclusion are sexist or bigots, its simply that resources are going to something that may negatively impact gameplay(as far as they know) or at the very least does not benefit their experience.

Much like people on the DA3 forums vehemently oppose multiplayer(far more vehemently than I've seen anyone here oppose female chars or gender toggles). They're concerned that it takes resources away from something they want. They're not prejudiced against people who play multiplayer or enjoy online gaming, they simply want more resources devoted to their desires than to something they don't care for.

Because of this proponents of any particular use of resources are not only combatting folks who actively dislike its implementation(say if day/night cycles were added which presumably most people don't hate), but you're also combatting folks who are indifferent to it.

I was pointing out that it's incorrect to say that female characters have a combat advantage because of smaller hitboxes because they typically don't, which you mentioned.

Most people complaining about resource allocation don't understand how resource allocation works in game development. I'm trying to get into the industry and I don't even fully understand how it works just yet, but I do know that you can only throw so many people at a project before it starts hurting things more than it does help them.

Given that one of the EA higher ups came out and said "I haven't green lit a single project in the last year without an online multiplayer component" that's as good as confirmed in my books for DA3.

[Rebel_Raven]

Vandicus wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Misterpinky0 wrote...

I think that all classes should be gender-swappable. Being a guy, I play guys as I feel I can role-play them better. I imagine that the opposite is true for most female players (it certainly is true for my sister, who I got into Mass Effect). So, it would be great if you could just play as either gender for any classes (excluding mono-gender species, of course) instead of needing to worry about adding new classes of specific gender.

As much as I like the idea, the problem is there's a lot of races out there that are stubbornly represented by one gender and may as well be monogendered races.

As it stands now, the gender toggle won't work beyond humans, and quarians.

Maybe in the future, when Bioware has time to figure out how females will look, they'll add them, then add the gender toggle, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It took an entire trilogy, and a lot of DLCs just to settle on what a female turian looks like.

Don't krogan females and salarian females from SP look about the same as the male ones?

Just wondering, are you bothered by the salarian male units in MP? Since their society is matriarchical I find that every Salarian combatant we ever meet being male implies that their societal structure doesn't support females as combatants any more than it does males as political leaders. Which doesn't bother me in the least. Alien cultures, imo should have alien belief systems. I'd see why you might be bothered by Turians, as their established social structure includes female combatants, but does an alien society which disincludes female combatants bother you when female combatants from that society aren't included in MP?

As a long time fan of online competitive shooters, I have the attitude that (fluff)customization or roleplaying characters doesn't really matter at all in an online shooter, balanced and fun gameplay and strong competition are the important aspects. As such, I naturally view any requests for enhanced (fluff)customization, such as a gender toggle, as a waste of resources. That's why I oppose a gender toggle.

Yes to the first question. Krogans and salarians look a lot a like. It's a little hard to tell just how much under all the robes the females tend to wear, though. There may be physical diffirences we aren't seeing.

That is an interesting series of questions you pose about the Salarians.

Salarians being all male in MP doesn't really bother me. The Lore behind them being all male in MP is rather solid against females on the battlefield.

On the other hand, if every culture in the game, including humans, were to follow such "No women on the battlefield" lore, I might not be so tolerant of it.
Honestly I might not have even bought the game to begin with, as being a female is important to me in a game. It's a rare rare luxury that I desire supporting both for me, and the producer of said luxury.

If Bioware decided to add female salarians to Multiplayer, however, I would not oppose it.
Lore does state that Shepard called upon every last person in the galaxy to pitch in, after all.
Further complicating things, is a matter of free will. Not every last person in the universe follows the lore of the game, IMO.

Importantly, I support the idea of free will. If a person is going to go fight, they will fight no matter what, be it the intended targets, or the people/obstacles standing in their way.

Further, I support a chjange to lore if Bioware opens such gates as I feel they did with the Krogan females in Mass effect 3's lore for instance.

Lore is one thing, but it must be balanced with life, and free will, and Chaos for a lack of a better word. If lore becomes the end all, and be all, stifling any outsiders, and any change, then it's bad lore to me.

Speaking of things I feel must be balanced, there's Fluff vs Gameplay. I appreciate both whole heartedly. One without the other is useless to me. They are not mutually exclusive to me.

That said, I do not mind the fluff of being able to select one's gender. Infact it's the most important bit of fluff to me. I am female, and I desire to play as a female. It's obscenely rare among console games, and ESPECIALLY among shooters, so I relish the oppoprtunity. Guys may not, and often do not understand as their preferrences are often met in spades, especially among shooters.

Fluff bears the double edged sword of uniformity, and non uniformity.

On one hand, fluff allows less uniformity, and in shooters, the more flashy my ally is vs the enemy the less likely I'm going to be to shoot them and ask questions later.

On the other hand, if a human male wears white, black, and yellow, it's hardly my fault if I mistake them for cerberus (especially if we are fighting that faction) and I shoot them a little to be sure!  I do not always see the player name pop up before I make the mistake.

The same can be said for people wearing the colors of a Cannibal. Especially Krogans.

The worst is Geth players wearing enemy Geth colors.

I can appreciate why they do it, but on the same token, I expect them to understand why I might shoot them a little.
Thankfully there is no friendly fire damage.

As far as Fluff goes, I appreciate it so much because "Rebel" is not just a pretty word in my name.

And this is where the fluff hits the fan, I guess you'd say. Mass Effect is sort of the middle ground between us. While we do not have a gender toggle, we do have the ability to pick a male, or female character from a wide variety of characters.
This said, a gender toggle isn't necessary.

What is necessary, to me, however, is that there is sufficient variety among both genders in terms of the important gameplay.
I, like many others in this thread, do not believe there is enough.

I am curious, however, if I might ask? Considering the fact that there are so many characters to pick from, male and female, and no toggle for gender, do you see gender as "fluff in this game?
I'd ask in general, but having multiple player characters of both genders is excruciatingly rare, nevermind a gender toggle.

[zRz Tyr]

Firebase Kitchen ftw.

Modifié par zRz Tyr, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:56 .

[Rebel_Raven]

Deadlysyns wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Yes because the sex of the character determines how good it is

I'm pretty certain you don't care either way about the gender, but every time I hear that it's like
"No! Make'em male! Gimme more male characters!" coz it sounds like a person is arguing against the addition of female characters.

If gender doesn't matter, why would one be upset at people requesting a certain gender? Coz unless one wants it to be that gender, it shouldn't matter, should it?

Why is asking for a specefic gender -wrong-? Variety is the spice of life, is it not? Especially in a progressive universe such as Mass Effect where defaulting to the male gender should not exist.

But that's just my 2 cents.

its because asking once is not enough for you people you need to keep bringing it up after every new DLC 

If Bioware kept a decent ratio of women to men (and perhaps the other genders!) in a wider variety of play styles, we would not ask so often, if at all!

It's not hard to see that the supply of female vanguards, sentinels, and ESPECIALLY soldiers is extremely lacking.

Bludgeoning people over the head for wanting a wider variety of female character play styles will not get you anywhere, I'm afraid.

I suggest, perhaps, erasing the line on the ground you have drawn for tolerating female character requests, and moving it back a little towards tolerating it more, if at all possible.

In fact helping us achieve our goal will probably help more than not. Once we have what we desire, we can not ask for it anymore.

These requests are often more than wanting female characters just to have them.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:15 .

[VirDeBello]

 "Well I can see this is pointless, I thought you were up for it"
"Shepard wait. I can wear swimwear into battle."

[SoldierGirlJade]

Female Destroyer Vanguard

[Rebel_Raven]

VirDeBello wrote...

Shepard: "Well I can see this is pointless, I thought you were up for it"
Wrex: "Shepard wait. I can wear swimwear into battle."

Fixed that for you!

[Blarg]

I like the concept. I'm all for gender equality, and it does seem odd that the even choice of gender in SP is not reflected in MP.
But as for the topic, no more Turians, Asari, or Humans for now. I'm all for female Quarians (I love the accent and presentation, and will be mildly disappointed if the Marksman is a male), female Drell (which I haven't seen brought up for some reason), and female Phoenix members.

The Quarians would be soldiers/sentinels, the Drell would be engineers/infiltrators (yes, I know we're already getting a Drell infiltrator), and the Phoenix members would be adepts/vanguards (with powers other than lash/smash. Maybe slam/dominate? Actually, no, bad idea. There'd be way too many dirty jokes).

[Cyonan]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

I like the concept. I'm all for gender equality, and it does seem odd that the even choice of gender in SP is not reflected in MP.
But as for the topic, no more Turians, Asari, or Humans for now. I'm all for female Quarians (I love the accent and presentation, and will be mildly disappointed if the Marksman is a male), female Drell (which I haven't seen brought up for some reason), and female Phoenix members.

The Quarians would be soldiers/sentinels, the Drell would be engineers/infiltrators (yes, I know we're already getting a Drell infiltrator), and the Phoenix members would be adepts/vanguards (with powers other than lash/smash. Maybe slam/dominate? Actually, no, bad idea. There'd be way too many dirty jokes).

You're in for some mild disappointment, then.

[Blarg]

Cyonan wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

I like the concept. I'm all for gender equality, and it does seem odd that the even choice of gender in SP is not reflected in MP.
But as for the topic, no more Turians, Asari, or Humans for now. I'm all for female Quarians (I love the accent and presentation, and will be mildly disappointed if the Marksman is a male), female Drell (which I haven't seen brought up for some reason), and female Phoenix members.

The Quarians would be soldiers/sentinels, the Drell would be engineers/infiltrators (yes, I know we're already getting a Drell infiltrator), and the Phoenix members would be adepts/vanguards (with powers other than lash/smash. Maybe slam/dominate? Actually, no, bad idea. There'd be way too many dirty jokes).

You're in for some mild disappointment, then.

Somehow, I'm not surprised. Definitely disappointed though. 

[john-in-france]

I like the present QFE. No need for yet another Quarian engineer (from the woman who plays engineers almost exclusively). I would like a Quarian biotic or sentinel...female...and with no duff powers.

Sabotage might be fun, but it doesn't count as an assist, nor even for the Tech Mastery challenge...that sucks Bioware, I really hoped that Sabotage would be fixed with the patch and/or DLC especially since the Turian engineer is going to get it too.

[alhamel94]

only if there are nude humans and asari with jiggly t*** and a**. then im all fr it lol

[Rokayt]

If we were gonna call it the revolt DLC, they had better be revolting.

Modifié par Rokayt, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:48 .

[CNevarezN]

I'll light up the candles and break out the wine ladies...

... Oh yeah. You know where this is goin.

Modifié par CNevarezN, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:56 .

[hostaman]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

All have "Making Sandwich" and "Back to Kitchen" power

Maybe a few new Male Characters would go down well too.

What about these new powers:

1. Inability to multi-task - A new power that stops you being able to run and shoot at the same time
2. Krogan Rambo - A character that can only melee and dies quickly miles from the team
3. Platinum Liar - A special power that forces you to brag about soloing on Platinum
4. Couch Potatoe - Power which changes Grendades into Bottles of Bud
5. Red Neck - Power which forces mic users to replace every word with F***

[Foxtrot813]

"We've lost control of this roast, no time for aerial basting. Get in there lock it down."

"FINISH!"