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[jtav]

I’ve noticed a disturbing trend on BSN. Those who choose Destroy frequently make their case by attacking the other endings. If the best you can say about your ending is that it’s “least bad” what kind of case is that? Why should I shoot that pipe? As a pro-ender who has chosen all three main endings with one Shep or another, I’ve been nearly completely turned off Destroy by the attitude if its supporters. So, I want to make a positive case for Destroy for my own sake and for those like me.

The premise that the synthetic/organic conflict will inevitably lead to extinction is questionable at best. Peace on Rannoch and EDI’s arc contradict it from a narrative perspective, and this is a story after all. Synthetics and organics can be reconciled, while Shepard must ultimately choose between the salarians and krogan. And no one is suggesting Reapers to solve that.

All life, synthetic and organic, has the right to make their own future. There's no need for AI gods or altering all life everywhere. The freedom can be abused, but it's the inalienable right of all sapient life. In a strange way, Destroy preserves the dignity of synthetic life. In just war theory, the principle of double effect states that you can take an action that will lead to civilian or allied casualties as long as the act isn't evil in itself and you have a proportional reason. Given that the Reapers will destroy all life in the galaxy, even the massive number of synthetic casualties meets that test. The thing is, I would say the same if any other race was on the chopping block. So, in a perverse way, Destroy affirms synthetic of equality.

And we are finally free of the Reapers. When the relays are repaired, we will have to do that on our own. Which means that we will finally truly understand the technology we use. No more will the growth of civilization be guided by a malevolent hand. It could backfire, but see what I said about the right of sapient life. It’s radical, terrible freedom, but it’s ours. We’ve seen what happens we a civilization depends on Reaper tech: stagnation. They become lazy and incurious. Destroy allows—forces—civilization to grow up. With any luck, we’ll see increased cultural and technological diversity bow that the cycle is gone.

[o Ventus]

The same reason pro-Synths can argue "There will be peace" or Controllers can argue "Shepardlyst is totally benevolent and not a tyrant, yo".

[Taboo]

Freedom just around the corner from you. But with the truth so far off what good will it do?

What if the Geth are already dead jtav?

[wantedman dan]

jtav wrote...

All life, synthetic and organic, has the right to make their own future. There's no need for AI gods or altering all life everywhere. The freedom can be abused, but it's the inalienable right of all sapient life. In a strange way, Destroy preserves the dignity of synthetic life. In just war theory, the principle of double effect states that you can take an action that will lead to civilian or allied casualties as long as the act isn't evil in itself and you have a proportional reason. Given that the Reapers will destroy all life in the galaxy, even the massive number of synthetic casualties meets that test. The thing is, I would say the same if any other race was on the chopping block. So, in a perverse way, Destroy affirms synthetic of equality.

I find the concept to be difficult to swallow that by committing galactic genocide on synthetic life, you are thereby affirming their existence.

[MegaSovereign]

BSN should not influence your ending choice.

[o Ventus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freedom just around the corner from you. But with the truth so far off what good will it do?

What if the Geth are already dead jtav?

Then the only casualties would be EDI and Shepard VI. 

Granted, if anyone is placing EDI above the other ~trillions of people, they might be doing it wrong.

[Taboo]

Shepard isn't a VI though. Liara confirms this and so does EDI.

Unless you mean the lol one.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:47 .

[MegaSovereign]

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freedom just around the corner from you. But with the truth so far off what good will it do?

What if the Geth are already dead jtav?

Then the only casualties would be EDI and Shepard VI. 

Granted, if anyone is placing EDI above the other ~trillions of people, they might be doing it wrong.

VIs don't get destroyed. Kasumi still has her greybox.

Ironically the Geth may have survived if a certain robit didn't upload a certain Reaper code.

[WhiteKnyght]

The best thing about Destroy is that you're taking the future of the galaxy back for yourselves.

Organics are always being manipulated by higher forces. They were guided in infancy by the advanced race of the last cycle, then take their technology for themselves. Then they find the Reaper's technology and learn from it.

Destroy ends the manipulation of natural evolution. But the cost is synthetic life.

I'm perfectly willing to accept losing the technology we inherited from the Protheans and Reapers if it meant stopping them. It actually makes perfect sense that the people would need to go their own way for once.

Like Vendetta said. History is circular. This technology lead to the creation of the Reapers. And by that logic, it's only a matter of time before a new threat identical to them is created. Maybe even for the same reasons.

Going a different way would break that cycle. Yay alternatives.

[o Ventus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shepard isn't a VI though. Liara confirms this and so does EDI.

Unless you mean the lol one.

Yes.

Though now that I think about it, Glyph will die too.

Suddenly Destroy is looking less atractive...

[jtav]

wantedman dan wrote...

I find the concept to be difficult to swallow that by committing galactic genocide on synthetic life, you are thereby affirming their existence.

Because you could sub in "The Crucible will destroy all humans and come to the same conclusion. I'm treating synthetics as I would any race. Synthesis, by contrast, treats them as sublife that needs the sacrifice of a human messiah in order to be valid.

[o Ventus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freedom just around the corner from you. But with the truth so far off what good will it do?

What if the Geth are already dead jtav?

Then the only casualties would be EDI and Shepard VI. 

Granted, if anyone is placing EDI above the other ~trillions of people, they might be doing it wrong.

VIs don't get destroyed. Kasumi still has her greybox.

Ironically the Geth may have survived if a certain robit didn't upload a certain Reaper code.

Greyboxes aren't VIs. At least, there isn't any indication that they are VIs. Greyboxes are essentially memory tape-recorders for Alzheimer's patients. They don't have personalities (or anything that could imitate a personality).

Modifié par o Ventus, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Hudathan]

Seeing how the Shepard character can't see the future, destroying the Reapers is the best way to save as many people as possible and makes the most sense to me as a person.

[Taboo]

^ That's correct. Until the glory of Vitalism in Synthesis Synthetics aren't people! Google it!

They have no "soul energy".

Seriously Google it.

[wantedman dan]

jtav wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

I find the concept to be difficult to swallow that by committing galactic genocide on synthetic life, you are thereby affirming their existence.

Because you could sub in "The Crucible will destroy all humans and come to the same conclusion. I'm treating synthetics as I would any race. Synthesis, by contrast, treats them as sublife that needs the sacrifice of a human messiah in order to be valid.

Actually, no, based upon the premise given to you by the catalyst. You are killing synthetics because they are different, thus inherently--and destined to always be--causing conflict.

[Eterna]

You destroy the Reapers. That's about it.

[Taboo]

What if the Geth are already dead?

[MegaSovereign]

o Ventus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freedom just around the corner from you. But with the truth so far off what good will it do?

What if the Geth are already dead jtav?

Then the only casualties would be EDI and Shepard VI. 

Granted, if anyone is placing EDI above the other ~trillions of people, they might be doing it wrong.

VIs don't get destroyed. Kasumi still has her greybox.

Ironically the Geth may have survived if a certain robit didn't upload a certain Reaper code.

Greyboxes aren't VIs. At least, there isn't any indication that they are VIs. Greyboxes are essentially memory tape-recorders for Alzheimer's patients. They don't have personalities (or anything that could imitate a personality).

I haven't played ME2 in a while, but last I remember there was a Keji VI installed on the Greybox.

Anyways, aren't Greyboxes just space harddrives?

[Captain Crash]

Eterna5 wrote...

You destroy the Reapers. That's about it.

Indeed.   But it makes more sense then the other two options

[Aaleel]

Well I figured as long as reapers were alive they were a threat. So destroy was the most definitive and final solution to the reapers cycle.

[o Ventus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freedom just around the corner from you. But with the truth so far off what good will it do?

What if the Geth are already dead jtav?

Then the only casualties would be EDI and Shepard VI. 

Granted, if anyone is placing EDI above the other ~trillions of people, they might be doing it wrong.

VIs don't get destroyed. Kasumi still has her greybox.

Ironically the Geth may have survived if a certain robit didn't upload a certain Reaper code.

Greyboxes aren't VIs. At least, there isn't any indication that they are VIs. Greyboxes are essentially memory tape-recorders for Alzheimer's patients. They don't have personalities (or anything that could imitate a personality).

I haven't played ME2 in a while, but last I remember there was a Keji VI installed on the Greybox.

Anyways, aren't Greyboxes just space harddrives?

It isn't a Keiji VI. Keiji manually "recorded" a message (for lack of a better descriptor) for Kasumi and left it on his greybox.

Modifié par o Ventus, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:58 .

[themikefest]

destroy is the goal no matter what we knew this from the beginning

[WhiteKnyght]

Fun Fact: Synthesis shows Keiji Okuda revived trough his memories.

[MegaSovereign]

themikefest wrote...

destroy is the goal no matter what we knew this from the beginning

My goal was to find true love.

[o Ventus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Fun Fact: Synthesis shows Keiji Okuda revived trough his memories.

Please don't start that now. I've had a rough day.