288 réponses à ce sujet

[LilLino]

Few reasons.
-You're a Badass, you kill Reapers&Live.
-You disregard Catalyst.
-Species self determination. This is the only ending where Reaper influence is finally over.
-Justice, Reapers deserve to die for what they have done. EDI&Geth insta death is nothing compared to horrors that Reapers brought upon different species for all these thousands/millions of years.

And why not the other 2:
-I'm an organic, I don't believe that my very essence is flawed and absolutely needs to be altered to achieve next step in evolution. Nor is it needed for organics&synthetics to co-exist.
-My goal as Shepard was to inspire and prove that a man can do great things. It isn't that way in control "He knew he could only achieve this by becoming something greater'.
I won't create another Catalyst, we saw how the last one worked out.

[Sonashi]

Well said OP, I'm suprised a bit though. First Synthesis, then I saw your thread about Control ending and now Destroy outcome. It's hard to meet a person on BSN, who can see a potenitial in every final choice.

Imo only Destroy and Refuse choice doesn't discriminate anyone. Yes it's a weird way to show that in the red outcome but if you have any pangs of conscience when you choosing to shot the tube, it means that you treat synthetics as a normal people, equal to you.

In Control and Synthesis you don't believe that people in the galaxy can achieve peace, another stage of evolution on their own. You don't trust them, so you have to use some bigger power to regain that trust.

Also the Reapers/Husks thing. Paragon speech on Rannoch shows my feelings about them.

Shall we speculate some more? Let's assume that your all family, friends were turned into husks and you saw it. Would you choose to control them, let them live as a monsters? Don't they deserve some dignity, peace after all they've been through? I just want to know people's opinion on that.

PS. This is just my opinion so no offence intended. I've chosen Control and Synthesis before and I consider them valid options. I just want to speculate a bit.

[Xilizhra]

Shall we speculate some more? Let's assume that your all family, friends were turned into husks and you saw it. Would you choose to control them, let them live as a monsters? Don't they deserve some dignity, peace after all they've been through? I just want to know people's opinion on that.

This is one thing I agree with the qunari on. Corpses are meaningless. Their minds are gone already; they're already dead. What happens to dead flesh has no bearing on them.

[Sonashi]

So what do you think about what happened in Synthesis. Did Husks regain their consciousness? If so, who they became?

Edit: Also, do you think the Reapers don't deserve peace, dignity after all? Have you ever imagined how life as a Reaper would look like?

Modifié par Sonashi, 14 octobre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

So what do you think about what happened in Synthesis. Did Husks regain their consciousness? If so, who they became?

I'm not sure. If they did, they'd have indendent, newly created synthetic intelligences; they'd all awaken as new AIs. If not, they could still easily be under Reaper control as remote pawns.

[RebelTitan428]

i spent the whole game tellins TIM control is wrong, not going to contradict myself in the last 10 minutes,

and synthesis is the dumbest thing a write could think of without explaining how it works.

[jtav]

The husks are already dead, and I would try not to let them affect my calculus too much. In the same way, I'd try not to let vengeance color my thinking. The moral responsibility of the Reapers--as distinct from the Catalyst--is questionable at best. And we don't kill people because they deserve it. If we kill someone, it should be because we believe it's the best way to preserve safety.

[Argolas]

The harvested cycles are finally set free. I would not like my mind trapped in a sapient starship that can be controlled by anyone who has the technology for it. And this for countless centuries...

[xAmilli0n]

Here is my take on Destroy. It essentially does what we expected the Crucible to do when we were building it. Had the Crucible fired when it docked (right after we open the arms of the Citadel), I think its safe to say we were expecting dead Reapers.

Now, had the Geth been killed under such a situation, many people would have been pissed, but it would have fallen under 'we didn't know exactly what it would do' and 'necessary sacrifice.'

But in reality, we shoot a tube instead of push a button, and we get a somewhat contrived reason as to why the Geth will die. Same effect, different reaction by the player.

So, positive reason to choose destroy? Its probably what would have happened, had there been no Catalyst.

[Xilizhra]

Argolas wrote...

The harvested cycles are finally set free. I would not like my mind trapped in a sapient starship that can be controlled by anyone who has the technology for it. And this for countless centuries...

Shouldn't you let those minds decide for themselves?

[Sonashi]

@jtav

A murderer who has killed, with cold blood, many innocent people before for no reason, doesn't deserve a death? Yes, life without him would be safer, but doesn't he deserve death?

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

@jtav

A murderer who has killed, with cold blood, many innocent people before for no reason, doesn't deserve a death? Yes, life without him would be safer, but doesn't he deserve death?

Better if he can be redeemed. And the Catalyst, the one actually responsible, is dead regardless.

[jtav]

Sonashi wrote...

@jtav

A murderer who has killed, with cold blood, many innocent people before for no reason, doesn't deserve a death? Yes, life without him would be safer, but doesn't he deserve death?

God save us from what we deserve. In RL, I'm anti-death penalty, and it colors my thinking here. Now you could make the argument that Reapers are closer to forces of nature or rabid animals, and therefore must be treated differently than even the most sadistic muderer.

[Argolas]

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

The harvested cycles are finally set free. I would not like my mind trapped in a sapient starship that can be controlled by anyone who has the technology for it. And this for countless centuries...

Shouldn't you let those minds decide for themselves?

I would, but they can´t decide anymore. A reaper´s will has nothing to do with the ones that were harvested. In Dragon Age terms, the reapers are a bit like common golems who forgot the person they once were: They are a form of life that can only be created by perverting existing lifes. And they always do what the one with the control rod tells them to.

Look at ME2. Look how a reaper is born. These things are abominations, they never should have existed and they should be ended as soon as possible.

[Xilizhra]

God save us from what we deserve.

I personally believe that no one deserves to die, especially not due to the dictates of an absentee creator, but...

[Taboo]

It's far more complicated than simple Us v. Them.

You should be picking Destroy for the reasons jtav mentions. It's incredibly petty to do it out of sheer vengeance.

Your Shepard will most likely survive too so you need to consider what he's going to say in the aftermath.

[Xilizhra]

A reaper´s will has nothing to do with the ones that were harvested.

In that case, those people are dead already and nothing you do to the Reapers will affect them, so it no longer matters.

Look at ME2. Look how a reaper is born. These things are abominations, they never should have existed and they should be ended as soon as possible.

The harvesting process is bad because of the deaths it causes, nothing more. I don't believe in "abominations."

[Sonashi]

@ Xilizhra

Not everybody can be redeemed, unfortunately. About the Catalyst - it's not that simple to treat it as a normal criminal. It's an restriced AI which has to achieve its purpose. The Catalyst has no imagination, no emotions. It uses only statistics in order to find a final solution so I wouldn't compare it to a normal organic.

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

@ Xilizhra

Not everybody can be redeemed, unfortunately. About the Catalyst - it's not that simple to treat it as a normal criminal. It's an restriced AI which has to achieve its purpose. The Catalyst has no imagination, no emotions. It uses only statistics in order to find a final solution so I wouldn't compare it to a normal organic.

In that case, no one on the enemy side is a "criminal" in the human manner or would be required to be treated like one.

[Aaleel]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's far more complicated than simple Us v. Them.

You should be picking Destroy for the reasons jtav mentions. It's incredibly petty to do it out of sheer vengeance.

Your Shepard will most likely survive too so you need to consider what he's going to say in the aftermath.

What he/she is going to say??

Our plan worked, I used the crucible, defeated the reapers and ended the cycle. 

What else is there to say.  Everyone had already agreed to the plan.

[Sonashi]

jtav wrote...

God save us from what we deserve. In RL, I'm anti-death penalty, and it colors my thinking here. Now you could make the argument that Reapers are closer to forces of nature or rabid animals, and therefore must be treated differently than even the most sadistic muderer.

I understand. This topic shouldn't be discussed here. But it's a common problem in my country. Probably I'm a bit like Garrus in the original ME (dr Saleon for example). But I saw that you mentioned about your ultra-renegade playthrough. I'm suprised you are able to do it   .

@Xilizhra

When I mentioned that murderer to jtav, I was talking about situation in real life, not about the Catalyst. Also, speaking about me3, you can consider killing the Reaper forces as a self-defence behaviour.

Modifié par Sonashi, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:13 .

[shedevil3001]

destroy seems like the logical choice, mean as from me1 our main goal was to destroy the reaper threat as soon as we found out about them, but the reason i chose it myself, is because everything we lose can be rebuilt, in war sometimes sacrifices are neccessary, even your squad tell you that, most of them anyway, but chosing destroy means i dont have to worry about the reapers turning on me later, or with synthesis i dont know exactly what that will do to all life later on down the line, its too much of an unknown risk, especially mean as i dont trust the starchild/cataylst, which only really leaves me with 1 option the 1 i started out with, destroying the threat that was endangering all life, technology can be rediscovered and rebuilt maybe even stronger and better, and all that was lost can be regained with time, so imo that is the best choice my shep can make in the few seconds we get to decide

[Argolas]

I am against capital punishment myself, and I do not speak about revenge. But I still say the Reapers have to die, or rather be destroyed.

Reason:

I do not consider them worthy life. A reaper can only be created by harvesting entire species, that means perverting other life. I believe that this kind of life should never have existed. This is the reason I call them abominations.

Destroying them is not punishing them, I heavily doubt they have any feelings at all. Destroying them is making the wrongs that the genocide AI created right again.

[Xilizhra]

When I mentioned that murderer to jtav, I was talking about situation in real life, not about the Catalyst. Also, speaking about me3, you can consider killing the Reaper forces as a self-defence behaviour.

Largely, yes. But I don't want to kill them all, and I definitely don't want to kill off all other synthetic life.

I do not consider them worthy life. A reaper can only be created by harvesting entire species, that means perverting other life. I believe that this kind of life should never have existed. This is the reason I call them abominations.

Whether it should or not is irrelevant. It does, and we should make the best of it, not just destroy things because they make us uncomfortable.