288 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

I don't understand why people say destroy causes genocide. The reapers not only deserve death, but that has been our goal since ME why change course now that a reaper is telling you not to?

As for the geth, collateral damage, they can be rebuilt or not, it doesn't really matter.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

When I mentioned that murderer to jtav, I was talking about situation in real life, not about the Catalyst. Also, speaking about me3, you can consider killing the Reaper forces as a self-defence behaviour.

Largely, yes. But I don't want to kill them all, and I definitely don't want to kill off all other synthetic life.

I do not consider them worthy life. A reaper can only be created by harvesting entire species, that means perverting other life. I believe that this kind of life should never have existed. This is the reason I call them abominations.

Whether it should or not is irrelevant. It does, and we should make the best of it, not just destroy things because they make us uncomfortable.

. They do not just make us uncomfortable, they are trying to slaughter every living thing.  They do not deserve sympathy or mercy, or compromise

[Xilizhra]

. They do not just make us uncomfortable, they are trying to slaughter every living thing. They do not deserve sympathy or mercy, or compromise

The Catalyst is acting through them. The Reapers, lacking free will, are innocent.

[Sonashi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Largely, yes. But I don't want to kill them all, and I definitely don't want to kill off all other synthetic life.

Neither do I. Every single time, when I have to choose one ending, it's a hard, long decision for me.

Xilizhra wrote...
Whether it should or not is irrelevant. It does, and we should make the best of it, not just destroy things because they make us uncomfortable.

I'm asking again. Do you think the Reapers, or rather those minds inside them, don't deserve some dignity, peace? Have you ever imagined how living as a Reaper would look like?

Modifié par Sonashi, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:29 .

[Aaleel]

Xilizhra wrote...

When I mentioned that murderer to jtav, I was talking about situation in real life, not about the Catalyst. Also, speaking about me3, you can consider killing the Reaper forces as a self-defence behaviour.

Largely, yes. But I don't want to kill them all, and I definitely don't want to kill off all other synthetic life.

I do not consider them worthy life. A reaper can only be created by harvesting entire species, that means perverting other life. I believe that this kind of life should never have existed. This is the reason I call them abominations.

Whether it should or not is irrelevant. It does, and we should make the best of it, not just destroy things because they make us uncomfortable.

I didn't destroy them because they made me feel uncomfortable.  I destroyed them because their one and only purpose is the kill every single advanced organic race, which they were doing a pretty good job of at the time.

[Xilizhra]

I'm asking again. Do you think the Reapers, or rather those minds inside them, don't deserve some dignity, peace? Have you ever imagined how living as a Reaper would look like?

I think the Reapers should make that choice for themselves. I have not imagined how living as a Reaper would look like; I can't, and neither can you. We have no idea what it's like and no right to make that assumption.

I didn't destroy them because they made me feel uncomfortable.  I
destroyed them because their one and only purpose is the kill every
single advanced organic race, which they were doing a pretty good job of
at the time.

It's quite easy to repurpose or free them.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:30 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

. They do not just make us uncomfortable, they are trying to slaughter every living thing. They do not deserve sympathy or mercy, or compromise

The Catalyst is acting through them. The Reapers, lacking free will, are innocent.

. Are you forgetting your conversation with Sovereign? Or the reaper on Rannoch?   They know what they are doing, they just think it's right, they have free will, it's just being twisted by the catalyst

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

. They do not just make us uncomfortable, they are trying to slaughter every living thing. They do not deserve sympathy or mercy, or compromise

The Catalyst is acting through them. The Reapers, lacking free will, are innocent.

. Are you forgetting your conversation with Sovereign? Or the reaper on Rannoch?   They know what they are doing, they just think it's right, they have free will, it's just being twisted by the catalyst

They don't control their own thoughts. They believe themselves in the right, but are still being controlled. Effectively, they're indoctrinated.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

. They do not just make us uncomfortable, they are trying to slaughter every living thing. They do not deserve sympathy or mercy, or compromise

The Catalyst is acting through them. The Reapers, lacking free will, are innocent.

. Are you forgetting your conversation with Sovereign? Or the reaper on Rannoch?   They know what they are doing, they just think it's right, they have free will, it's just being twisted by the catalyst

They don't control their own thoughts. They believe themselves in the right, but are still being controlled. Effectively, they're indoctrinated.

. And what do we do with indoctrinated people? Hint it involves gunfire

[Xilizhra]

. And what do we do with indoctrinated people? Hint it involves gunfire

Well, I let Shiala live. There's no need to kill when there's a cure.

[Sonashi]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm asking again. Do you think the Reapers, or rather those minds inside them, don't deserve some dignity, peace? Have you ever imagined how living as a Reaper would look like?

I think the Reapers should make that choice for themselves. I have not imagined how living as a Reaper would look like; I can't, and neither can you. We have no idea what it's like and no right to make that assumption.

Thousands minds but one voice - I assume that what the situation look like when the Catalyst controls them. But what happened after synthesis? If every single mind regained free will, then that would be a big mess. But if a single mind can transform into the husk body, and then improve it to a normal level - I'm ok with that. Actually that's my interpretation of Synthesis.

But if you treat them as a living creature, how could someone choose Control?

Modifié par Sonashi, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:41 .

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm asking again. Do you think the Reapers, or rather those minds inside them, don't deserve some dignity, peace? Have you ever imagined how living as a Reaper would look like?

I think the Reapers should make that choice for themselves. I have not imagined how living as a Reaper would look like; I can't, and neither can you. We have no idea what it's like and no right to make that assumption.

Thousands minds but one voice - I assume that what the situation look like when the Catalyst controls them. But what happened after synthesis? If every single mind regained free will, then that would be a big mess. But if a single mind can transform into the husk body, and then improve it to a normal level - I'm ok with that. Actually that's my interpretation of Synthesis.

But if you treat them as a living creature, how could someone choose Control?

Better than I could choose Destroy. I can free them myself even under Control, I just want to ascertain that the galaxy will be safe first, from beings such as the Leviathans and krogan. I want to get to know all of the Reapers to ensure I can tell which ones will be safe to be freed, as well.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

. And what do we do with indoctrinated people? Hint it involves gunfire

Well, I let Shiala live. There's no need to kill when there's a cure.

. Saren? Benezia? TIM? Kai Leng? That Asari on Virmire? Amanda Kenson? The Geth Heretics? Etc.....

[jtav]

Except now there is an option to do something other than kill. The situation is now more complex.

[Xilizhra]

. Saren? Benezia? TIM? Kai Leng? That Asari on Virmire? Amanda Kenson? The Geth Heretics? Etc.....

I rewrote the heretics too. I'll take other options when I can.

[Sonashi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Better than I could choose Destroy. I can free them myself even under Control, I just want to ascertain that the galaxy will be safe first, from beings such as the Leviathans and krogan. I want to get to know all of the Reapers to ensure I can tell which ones will be safe to be freed, as well.

Yeah, I understand. But before you'll be sure that the galaxy is safe, you have to use the Reapers as a tools. You would still be their master. And that in my opinion, considering the Reapers as a living creatures, is worse than death. Also as jtav said, how can you decide what someone deserve or not?

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Better than I could choose Destroy. I can free them myself even under Control, I just want to ascertain that the galaxy will be safe first, from beings such as the Leviathans and krogan. I want to get to know all of the Reapers to ensure I can tell which ones will be safe to be freed, as well.

Yeah, I understand. But before you'll be sure that the galaxy is safe, you have to use the Reapers as a tools. You would still be their master. And that in my opinion, considering the Reapers as a living creatures, is worse than death. Also as jtav said, how can you decide what someone deserve or not?

I don't consider that to be the case at all. Mind control, to me, is vastly more merciful than death. And it's not a matter of who deserves what; it's a matter of what's best for the galaxy as a whole.

[Sonashi]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't consider that to be the case at all. Mind control, to me, is vastly more merciful than death. And it's not a matter of who deserves what; it's a matter of what's best for the galaxy as a whole.

At least you have such a power to change that. I prefer my galaxy being free of any overlord who decides what is <airquote> the best for the galaxy </airquote>. 

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

. Saren? Benezia? TIM? Kai Leng? That Asari on Virmire? Amanda Kenson? The Geth Heretics? Etc.....

I rewrote the heretics too. I'll take other options when I can.

. I'd rather let them die where they stand than brain wash an entire race

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't consider that to be the case at all. Mind control, to me, is vastly more merciful than death. And it's not a matter of who deserves what; it's a matter of what's best for the galaxy as a whole.

At least you have such a power to change that. I prefer my galaxy being free of any overlord who decides what is <airquote> the best for the galaxy </airquote>. 

That might be nice, but there's no way to get there without genocide or Synthesis, which while I don't think is necessarily terrible, I'm undecided on my feelings for. Control seems like the least bad option.

[Sonashi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sonashi wrote...

At least you have such a power to change that. I prefer my galaxy being free of any overlord who decides what is <airquote> the best for the galaxy </airquote>. 

That might be nice, but there's no way to get there without genocide or Synthesis, which while I don't think is necessarily terrible, I'm undecided on my feelings for. Control seems like the least bad option.

I know, that's why imo, choosing one ending is such a hard choice (at least for me). You treat Geth as a living creatures so you can't wipe them out - understandable. You consider the Reapers as a living creatures too, so why you're not treating them like one. You're ok with mind control - that I can't understand. Every single life being deserves respect, dignity, peace. By choosing Control, you're denying that.

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Sonashi wrote...

At least you have such a power to change that. I prefer my galaxy being free of any overlord who decides what is <airquote> the best for the galaxy </airquote>. 

That might be nice, but there's no way to get there without genocide or Synthesis, which while I don't think is necessarily terrible, I'm undecided on my feelings for. Control seems like the least bad option.

I know, that's why imo, choosing one ending is such a hard choice (at least for me). You treat Geth as a living creatures so you can't wipe them out - understandable. You consider the Reapers as a living creatures too, so why you're not treating them like one. You're ok with mind control - that I can't understand. Every single life being deserves respect, dignity, peace. By choosing Control, you're denying that.

Mind control is both a lesser evil and temporary, unlike death.

[Steelcan]

The reapers are not worthy of sympath, pity, or mercy. They would not hesitate to eradicate all organic life, we should not hesitate to wipe out all reapers

[shodiswe]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freedom just around the corner from you. But with the truth so far off what good will it do?

What if the Geth are already dead jtav?

That could possibly make it even harder to make peace with future AI lifeforms than a Destroy with Geth in it... Both are bad for that reason though.

But having an organic specis, (Quarrians) oblitterate a synthetic one will only serve as a warning to future Synthetics that tey have to strike first and be relentless... And not as pacifistic as the Geth who stayed in their home systems.

[jtav]

Steelcan wrote...

The reapers are not worthy of sympath, pity, or mercy. They would not hesitate to eradicate all organic life, we should not hesitate to wipe out all reapers

And that is the attitude that is slowly pushing me back to Control.