288 réponses à ce sujet

[jpraelster93]

Because the reapers are dead this is reason enough to choose it

[Sonashi]

iakus wrote...

 A chance to warn EDI, so she could prepare for death, maybe say goodbye
to Joker, would have been both much more emotional, and in a sense,
much more cathartic.

She could prepare to death in a few seconds? Don't be silly. Like I said, those conversations on the Normandy were a better way to warn, prepare her for such a case. She could say goodbye to Joker before the final battle as well. Just in case, you know. Thanks to that previous conversations.

iakus wrote...

Not guilty.  But responsible, yes.

But Tali wasn't on the quarian fleet.  She's next to Shepard.  Letting Legion upload the code  (whom both you and tali can warn the quarians about) and the subsequent destruction of the quarians does not endanger Tali.  She kills herself.  And Shepard can try (and fail) to stop her.

in the case of the Destroy ending, the Catalyst tells SHepard that the blast will target all synthetic life.  And Shepard can do nothing to warn EDI or the geth.

How would you feel when you'd be standing next to a person who just decided to ally with your enemy and as a result all humans were dead?

Modifié par Sonashi, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:34 .

[AdmiralCheez]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Number 4 and 8 I have problems with.

To me Destroy makes the least amount of sense. How does the Crucible distinguish synthetic life from synthetic tech?

The Crucible doesn't make a lot of sense in general.  I find the "magically infusing all life with circuitry and vise versa" thing a much bigger hurdle to jump over.  Like, do the geth have lungs now?

As for your question, I think it would make MORE sense if the Crucible was designed to eliminate anything with Reaper coding (not just tech in general).  It's a logical measure if you want to make sure the Reapers are dead and gone for good, and EDI and the Geth both have abundant Reaper bits.  But as it is, an AI is significantly more advanced than, say, an iPod.  The blast may target technology only at a certain level of complexity or higher.  I don't really know how the hell that would work, but nobody knows how the Crucible works (which is very cheap on BW's part).

Control just... feels wierd.  It's the one thing in the series you were told over and over not to do, the one thing that over and over resulted in disaster.  Yes, it was demonstrated that an organic mind could exert control over synthetic minds in Project Overlord, so this is more an issue with narrative/theme inconsistency than it is with technological possibility.

EDI is definitely dead, with the Geth I guess you can headcanon them as alive but I hate headcanoning.

You underestimate my ability to deny reality.  But seriously, though, I would have been okay with EDI dying if I got the opportunity to ask her about it and find out if she was okay with it.  It feels wrong to do that sort of thing behind her back, and it feels wrong to wipe out the geth when they finally gained their independence.

However, I'm even more uncomfortable with removing the entire galaxy's free will and individuality, and I simply can't buy Control as a legitimate solution.  Like, what if the Catalyst is simply trying to lure you into repeating TIM's mistake?  Plus, as cool as it would be to become a machine god, it seems to defy everything my Shepard(s) stand for.

In the end, it just feels like sacrificing EDI and the Geth was needlessly tacked on in order to make Destruction less desirable.  It would be a different story if I had their consent.

[Xilizhra]

The Crucible doesn't make a lot of sense in general. I find the "magically infusing all life with circuitry and vise versa" thing a much bigger hurdle to jump over. Like, do the geth have lungs now?

No. Synthetics only gained perfection through understanding.

Control just... feels wierd. It's the one thing in the series you were told over and over not to do, the one thing that over and over resulted in disaster. Yes, it was demonstrated that an organic mind could exert control over synthetic minds in Project Overlord, so this is more an issue with narrative/theme inconsistency than it is with technological possibility.

Also, Sanctuary was successful on the Reaper ground forces themselves. Not to mention the precedent of Leviathan artifacts. And Control only resulted in disaster once, with TIM personally; Saren just gave up and went for submission right away. Control isn't that thematically inconsistent.

However, I'm even more uncomfortable with removing the entire galaxy's free will and individuality, and I simply can't buy Control as a legitimate solution. Like, what if the Catalyst is simply trying to lure you into repeating TIM's mistake? Plus, as cool as it would be to become a machine god, it seems to defy everything my Shepard(s) stand for.

My Shepard stood for the preservation of life. If becoming a machine god is the best way to do that, then I'll do it without hesitation. And I did.

Also, I need the Reapers to keep Wrex in check.

[LilLino]

Having their consent to kill their species? Honestly I agree with most of the things you say here, Admiral, but this is bullcrap and would be extremely out of place.

The thing with Geth&EDI is that it's the sacrifice people completely didn't consider. I suppose 90% people here, myself included were ready for Shep's death, not Geth's or EDI's.

Anyway, to be honest it makes sense for me that Crucible targets AIs and sophisticated technology, as our cycle is supposed to be the only one to achieve peace with Synthetics. All others were supposed to be more or less at war with them.

[Arcadian Legend]

AdmiralCheez wrote... 
*snip*

Holy s*** Cheez you're back. Welcome back! It's been a crazy (?) months.

BTW I don't know if you know this already, but the Omega DLC is going to have a female turian squadmate. Just felt like dropping that bombshell.

Modifié par Arcadian Legend, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:42 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Holy s*** Cheez you're back. Welcome back! It's been a crazy (?) months.

I tend to have bursts of activity about once a month.

BTW I don't know if you know this already, but the Omega DLC is going to have a female turian squadmate. Just felt like dropping that bombshell.

I know.  And I'm squeeing.

[Sonashi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, I need the Reapers to keep Wrex in check.

I must admit, Cotrol fits to you very well. You don't mind controlling a living creatures.

Next, you'll be keeping Turians in check, then Asari, then Salarians, Drells, Hanars etc. and finally Humans because they will be dangerous as well. The real Catalyst is here

[Arcadian Legend]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Holy s*** Cheez you're back. Welcome back! It's been a crazy (?) months.

I tend to have bursts of activity about once a month.

BTW I don't know if you know this already, but the Omega DLC is going to have a female turian squadmate. Just felt like dropping that bombshell.

I know.  And I'm squeeing.

I put it down to my poor timing on things like these. And that makes sense considering you changed your sig.

Modifié par Arcadian Legend, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:46 .

[Iakus]

[quote]Sonashi wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

 A chance to warn EDI, so she could prepare for death, maybe say goodbye
to Joker, would have been both much more emotional, and in a sense,
much more cathartic.[/quote]

She could prepare to death in a few seconds? Don't be silly. Like I said, those conversations on the Normandy were a better way to warn, prepare her for such a case. She could say goodbye to Joker before the final battle as well. Just in case, you know. Thanks to that previous conversations.[/quote]

I don't know about EDI, but for the play, most certainly.

[quote]iakus wrote...

Not guilty.  But responsible, yes.

But Tali wasn't on the quarian fleet.  She's next to Shepard.  Letting Legion upload the code  (whom both you and tali can warn the quarians about) and the subsequent destruction of the quarians does not endanger Tali.  She kills herself.  And Shepard can try (and fail) to stop her.

in the case of the Destroy ending, the Catalyst tells SHepard that the blast will target all synthetic life.  And Shepard can do nothing to warn EDI or the geth.
[/quote]

How would you feel when you'd be standing next to a person who just decided to ally with your enemy and as a result all humans were dead?
[/quote]

It's still Tali's choice, not Shepard's.  Shepard doesn't shoot her.  And can, in fact, try to save her.  Yes,having your choice doom the quarians is an awful one.  But it is something you can warn them about beforehand, even if they don't listen.

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

This is why it would have made more sense for controlling the geth to be an option rather than controlling the Reapers. It would have provided a viable way for a Renegade Shepard to gain the extra fleet as well.

That would mean Renegade would no longer be "Failure" and that's not what EAware was going for.

Modifié par Seboist, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:49 .

[Bill Casey]

Xilizhra wrote...

My Shepard stood for the preservation of life. If becoming a machine god is the best way to do that, then I'll do it without hesitation. And I did.

Preserve life at any cost?

[AdmiralCheez]

LilLino wrote...

Having their consent to kill their species? Honestly I agree with most of the things you say here, Admiral, but this is bullcrap and would be extremely out of place.

Okay, I admit it, the geth would probably say no.  Maybe I'll wind up going with Control as more information is made available.

The thing with Geth&EDI is that it's the sacrifice people completely didn't consider. I suppose 90% people here, myself included were ready for Shep's death, not Geth's or EDI's.

Which is why it came across as a nasty curveball.  I know it's supposed to be a war story and blah blah blah, but haven't we worked hard enough for a nice, triumphant, genocide-free ending?

Ooh, wait.  Does eliminating the Reapers count as genocide?

Anyway, to be honest it makes sense for me that Crucible targets AIs and sophisticated technology, as our cycle is supposed to be the only one to achieve peace with Synthetics. All others were supposed to be more or less at war with them.

Same here.  It's looking like Synthetis is the one that really has no basis in the canon.

[Bill Casey]

What do the Geth do in Refuse?

Do they fight to the death?
Do they side with the Reapers again?

[viggorrah]

Arcian wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote... 
*snip*

Holy s*** Cheez you're back. Welcome back! It's been a crazy (?) months.

BTW I don't know if you know this already, but the Omega DLC is going to have a female turian squadmate. Just felt like dropping that bombshell.

Wat.

Is this for real?

Yes. Or at the very, very least, we'll get to see said female turian.

[Arcadian Legend]

Arcian wrote...

Wat.

Is this for real?

Very real. Though whether she's a temp or permanent we don't know yet. Aria's another guest squaddie, obviously.

http://social.biowar.../index/14471763

[Bill Casey]

Temp...
Each mission has to be coded with selectable squadmates in mind...
Why Javik, Zaeed and Kasumi had to be partially on the disc...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:58 .

[MegaSovereign]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

As for your question, I think it would make MORE sense if the Crucible was designed to eliminate anything with Reaper coding (not just tech in general). It's a logical measure if you want to make sure the Reapers are dead and gone for good, and EDI and the Geth both have abundant Reaper bits. But as it is, an AI is significantly more advanced than, say, an iPod. The blast may target technology only at a certain level of complexity or higher. I don't really know how the hell that would work, but nobody knows how the Crucible works (which is very cheap on BW's part).

Control just... feels wierd. It's the one thing in the series you were told over and over not to do, the one thing that over and over resulted in disaster. Yes, it was demonstrated that an organic mind could exert control over synthetic minds in Project Overlord, so this is more an issue with narrative/theme inconsistency than it is with technological possibility.

I've tried to figure out the logistics of the Crucible for a long time now. I read some other thread that mentions the Crucible's energy having nano-machines that distinguishes synthetics from organics. Still doesn't explain how it can distinguish VIs from AIs. Unless ofcourse the Crucible can magically tell whether a Synthetic Intelligence is capable of adaptive coding. Meh.

The theme behind Control is that organics can't control synthetics. However the Control ending works for me because an organic isn't controlling the Reapers...The Crucible creates a new synthetic intelligence based off of Shepard to control the Reapers. Also the logistics behind the Control functionality makes much more sense to me. It's like a massive software update distributed through the mass relays.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
7. You get to go out shooting. For a lot of my Shepards, this is important.
.

This one makes me curious, why do you like this? I think the cutscene of Shepard choosing destroy is incredibly dull (shooting a tube? Really? Zzzzz), synthesis is also way too passive.

Control is the only ending where the scene of taking it has any punch to it.

[Sonashi]

iakus wrote...



It's still Tali's choice, not Shepard's.  Shepard doesn't shoot her.  And can, in fact, try to save her.  Yes,having your choice doom the quarians is an awful one.  But it is something you can warn them about beforehand, even if they don't listen.

All right then, please do a playthrough when you side with the Geths and tell me If you won't feel like an ass okay? About the rest of the Quarians - Shepard warned them before, even in ME 2. It's their admirals fault that Quarian civilians died. I just couldn't stand that it was Shepard fault regardless.  

[C9316]

Sonashi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, I need the Reapers to keep Wrex in check.

I must admit, Cotrol fits to you very well. You don't mind controlling a living creatures.

Next, you'll be keeping Turians in check, then Asari, then Salarians, Drells, Hanars etc. and finally Humans because they will be dangerous as well. The real Catalyst is here

Totalitarianism for everyone!