288 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

This one makes me curious, why do you like this? I think the cutscene of Shepard choosing destroy is incredibly dull (shooting a tube? Really? Zzzzz), synthesis is also way too passive.

Control is the only ending where the scene of taking it has any punch to it.

I have a few needlessly trigger-happy Shepards.

[Seboist]

Lizardviking wrote...

(shooting a tube? Really? Zzzzz)

You left out the bit where he walks TOWARD the explosion. It's a fitting end for the same idiot who compared the genophage to the FCW and who ordered the Normandy to engage the collector ship at point blank.

[Arcadian Legend]

Bill Casey wrote...

Temp...
Each mission has to be coded with selectable squadmates in mind...
Why Javik, Zaeed and Kasumi had to be partially on the disc...

Well, that's that then.

Buzzkill.







Just screwing around 

[Xilizhra]

Sonashi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, I need the Reapers to keep Wrex in check.

I must admit, Cotrol fits to you very well. You don't mind controlling a living creatures.

Next, you'll be keeping Turians in check, then Asari, then Salarians, Drells, Hanars etc. and finally Humans because they will be dangerous as well. The real Catalyst is here

The krogan are an inherent physiological danger to the galaxy due to their rapid breeding. I cured the genophage, but I want to ensure they can reform. Offer one hand, but arm the other.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

This one makes me curious, why do you like this? I think the cutscene of Shepard choosing destroy is incredibly dull (shooting a tube? Really? Zzzzz), synthesis is also way too passive.

Control is the only ending where the scene of taking it has any punch to it.

I have a few needlessly trigger-happy Shepards.

Eh.

In destroy we see Shepard doing what he or she has always done. Control actually manage to capture and show the extrodinary distance our hero has to go to stop the Reapers.

[AdmiralCheez]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I've tried to figure out the logistics of the Crucible for a long time now. I read some other thread that mentions the Crucible's energy having nano-machines that distinguishes synthetics from organics. Still doesn't explain how it can distinguish VIs from AIs. Unless ofcourse the Crucible can magically tell whether a Synthetic Intelligence is capable of adaptive coding. Meh.

If you can make sense of the Crucible, then you are a god.

The theme behind Control is that organics can't control synthetics. However the Control ending works for me because an organic isn't controlling the Reapers...The Crucible creates a new synthetic intelligence based off of Shepard to control the Reapers. Also the logistics behind the Control functionality makes much more sense to me. It's like a massive software update distributed through the mass relays.

Yeah.  Honestly, I keep swinging between Control and Destroy.  It might come down to a choice that depends on the Shepard.

Synthetis, however, is dumb.

[C9316]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sonashi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, I need the Reapers to keep Wrex in check.

I must admit, Cotrol fits to you very well. You don't mind controlling a living creatures.

Next, you'll be keeping Turians in check, then Asari, then Salarians, Drells, Hanars etc. and finally Humans because they will be dangerous as well. The real Catalyst is here

The krogan are an inherent physiological danger to the galaxy due to their rapid breeding. I cured the genophage, but I want to ensure they can reform. Offer one hand, but arm the other.

The Rachni have proven to be a danger as well, I assume you're going to want to keep them in check as well? Along with the Geth, and the Turians, and Cerberus came from Humanity that makes them dangerous too. Where does 'keeping them in check' end?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

(shooting a tube? Really? Zzzzz)

You left out the bit where he walks TOWARD the explosion. It's a fitting end for the same idiot who compared the genophage to the FCW and who ordered the Normandy to engage the collector ship at point blank.

Yeah, I guess Bioware wanted to show Shepard being fearless and perhaps even believing that he is going to die regardless.

But I don't know.

On a related note. I always thought that if Shepard chose destroy, we should have a scene of him escaping the situation. Ala at the end of the return of the king where we see Frodo and Sam fleeing the chamber in mount doom. Instead of our main character going suicidal.

[Xilizhra]

The Rachni have proven to be a danger as well, I assume you're going to want to keep them in check as well? Along with the Geth, and the Turians, and Cerberus came from Humanity that makes them dangerous too. Where does 'keeping them in check' end?

Actually, I don't need to do anything active with the krogan. Just have them not be remilitarized and continue to prevent them from building fleets, and the Council can do that. The Reapers don't actually need to enforce anything unless the krogan make it an issue.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The theme behind Control is that organics can't control synthetics. However the Control ending works for me because an organic isn't controlling the Reapers...The Crucible creates a new synthetic intelligence based off of Shepard to control the Reapers. Also the logistics behind the Control functionality makes much more sense to me. It's like a massive software update distributed through the mass relays.

Yeah.  Honestly, I keep swinging between Control and Destroy.  It might come down to a choice that depends on the Shepard.

Synthetis, however, is dumb.

Pick control.

It is the closest to an ending in ME3 that actual feels like an ending to a mass effect game. It is also the closest you can get on beating the catalyst on more than one level.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

Eh.

Not "eh."  Macho as hell.

In destroy we see Shepard doing what he or she has always done. Control actually manage to capture and show the extrodinary distance our hero has to go to stop the Reapers.

Maybe.  I can wrap my head around Control just fine, and I actually have a few Shepards that would go with Control.  The option shows a willingness to reconsider your position based on evidence, and it really is the "cleanest" victory.  It's mostly my mistrust of the Catalyst and the creepy ascent to godhood that gets in my way of being comfortable with ye olde blue beam.  Then again, I'm not comfortable with what happens to my synthetic friends, either.

If ME3's narrative was less of a disaster, I'd be okay with both choices, and I could hold up the Destroy/Control dichotomy as the culmination of morally grey decision-making that's part of what makes Mass Effect more interesting.  But the presentation was sloppy, so I wind up being unsatisfied with both.

[CosmicGnosis]

This is an excellent thread. Jtav and Xilizhra have made some great points, although I do admit that Xilizhra seems a little too eager to assume direct control of the galaxy. Still, I'm concerned about the uncomfortably large number of Destroyers who seem utterly incapable of considering viewpoints that differ from their own.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 14 octobre 2012 - 10:26 .

[MegaSovereign]

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The theme behind Control is that organics can't control synthetics. However the Control ending works for me because an organic isn't controlling the Reapers...The Crucible creates a new synthetic intelligence based off of Shepard to control the Reapers. Also the logistics behind the Control functionality makes much more sense to me. It's like a massive software update distributed through the mass relays.

Yeah.  Honestly, I keep swinging between Control and Destroy.  It might come down to a choice that depends on the Shepard.

Synthetis, however, is dumb.

Pick control.

It is the closest to an ending in ME3 that actual feels like an ending to a mass effect game. It is also the closest you can get on beating the catalyst on more than one level.

It's also the only ending that reflects on your Paragon/Renegade alignment.

[AdmiralCheez]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Pick control.

It is the closest to an ending in ME3 that actual feels like an ending to a mass effect game. It is also the closest you can get on beating the catalyst on more than one level.

It's also the only ending that reflects on your Paragon/Renegade alignment.

That's nice, guys, but did I not just say that it's a decision that comes down to the Shepard?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Maybe.  I can wrap my head around Control just fine, and I actually have a few Shepards that would go with Control.  The option shows a willingness to reconsider your position based on evidence, and it really is the "cleanest" victory.  It's mostly my mistrust of the Catalyst and the creepy ascent to godhood that gets in my way of being comfortable with ye olde blue beam.  Then again, I'm not comfortable with what happens to my synthetic friends, either.

If ME3's narrative was less of a disaster, I'd be okay with both choices, and I could hold up the Destroy/Control dichotomy as the culmination of morally grey decision-making that's part of what makes Mass Effect more interesting.  But the presentation was sloppy, so I wind up being unsatisfied with both.

I guess this is what it boils down to, there are simply too many flawed decisions that Bioware made when writing ME3 that even interesting concepts like control winds up feeling out-of-place or unsatisfying.

Which is something I can relate to.

[Seboist]

Lizardviking wrote...

I guess this is what it boils down to, there are simply too many flawed decisions that Bioware made when writing ME3 that even interesting concepts like control winds up feeling out-of-place or unsatisfying.

Which is something I can relate to.

Can't control the Geth but you can control the machine-gods themselves with just one dude, lol.

[jtav]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This is an excellent thread. Jtav and Xilizhra have made some great points, although I do admit that Xilizhra seems a little too eager to assume direct control of the galaxy. Still, I'm concerned about the uncomfortably large number of Destroyers who seem utterly incapable of considering viewpoints that differ from their own.

It's one reason I think I'm heading back to Control. I don't believe violence is strength and there's a little too much glorification of killing our enemy.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

I guess this is what it boils down to, there are simply too many flawed decisions that Bioware made when writing ME3 that even interesting concepts like control winds up feeling out-of-place or unsatisfying.

Which is something I can relate to.

So in the end, we're all in this together.

Except the Synthesissies, but they aren't real people, anyway.

... I'm KIDDING!  No seriously, there's nothing wrong with people liking/justifying Green Beam.  It just ain't my style, bro.

[Xilizhra]

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I guess this is what it boils down to, there are simply too many flawed decisions that Bioware made when writing ME3 that even interesting concepts like control winds up feeling out-of-place or unsatisfying.

Which is something I can relate to.

Can't control the Geth but you can control the machine-gods themselves with just one dude, lol.

It's controlling them with the computer system that was controlling them to begin with. I suppose the Catalyst could control the geth, there's just not much point when it can control the Reapers.

[Iakus]

jtav wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

This is an excellent thread. Jtav and Xilizhra have made some great points, although I do admit that Xilizhra seems a little too eager to assume direct control of the galaxy. Still, I'm concerned about the uncomfortably large number of Destroyers who seem utterly incapable of considering viewpoints that differ from their own.

It's one reason I think I'm heading back to Control. I don't believe violence is strength and there's a little too much glorification of killing our enemy.

It's not so much about violence as it's the only certain way Reaper influence is gone for good.  

I actually kinda like how Control is handled.  But even with the most "good" version of it, I can't help but think of it as "punting".  The Catalyst was created to preserve all life, and came up with the Reapers.  What sort of "solution" might the ShepReaper some up with in the future?

[Xilizhra]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I guess this is what it boils down to, there are simply too many flawed decisions that Bioware made when writing ME3 that even interesting concepts like control winds up feeling out-of-place or unsatisfying.

Which is something I can relate to.

Can't control the Geth but you can control the machine-gods themselves with just one dude, lol.

Poor Xen and Archer; all their great ideas got swept under the rug and they ended up helping to build a giant MacGuffin (emphasis on the "Mac") instead.

Archer gave up his idea due to the whole atrocity thing, and Xen's ideas probably wouldn't work anymore with the Reaper code.

[Foolsfolly]

jtav wrote...

I’ve noticed a disturbing trend on BSN. Those who choose Destroy frequently make their case by attacking the other endings. If the best you can say about your ending is that it’s “least bad” what kind of case is that? Why should I shoot that pipe? As a pro-ender who has chosen all three main endings with one Shep or another, I’ve been nearly completely turned off Destroy by the attitude if its supporters. So, I want to make a positive case for Destroy for my own sake and for those like me.

The premise that the synthetic/organic conflict will inevitably lead to extinction is questionable at best. Peace on Rannoch and EDI’s arc contradict it from a narrative perspective, and this is a story after all. Synthetics and organics can be reconciled, while Shepard must ultimately choose between the salarians and krogan. And no one is suggesting Reapers to solve that.

All life, synthetic and organic, has the right to make their own future. There's no need for AI gods or altering all life everywhere. The freedom can be abused, but it's the inalienable right of all sapient life. In a strange way, Destroy preserves the dignity of synthetic life. In just war theory, the principle of double effect states that you can take an action that will lead to civilian or allied casualties as long as the act isn't evil in itself and you have a proportional reason. Given that the Reapers will destroy all life in the galaxy, even the massive number of synthetic casualties meets that test. The thing is, I would say the same if any other race was on the chopping block. So, in a perverse way, Destroy affirms synthetic of equality.

And we are finally free of the Reapers. When the relays are repaired, we will have to do that on our own. Which means that we will finally truly understand the technology we use. No more will the growth of civilization be guided by a malevolent hand. It could backfire, but see what I said about the right of sapient life. It’s radical, terrible freedom, but it’s ours. We’ve seen what happens we a civilization depends on Reaper tech: stagnation. They become lazy and incurious. Destroy allows—forces—civilization to grow up. With any luck, we’ll see increased cultural and technological diversity bow that the cycle is gone.

I agree with the bolded underline and the bolded paragraph.

In my honest opinion the "best" ending is the Paragon Control ending. No genocide, no forcing unitity by rewriting all organics' DNA and rewriting synthetics to give them 'understanding of organics' somehow.

It's a violation, a terrible terrible violation of all those beings' very core. And sheer fact that it's 'inevitable' means the beings of the universe should earn their upgrade past this near technological singularity.

But outside of the fact that "nothing is lost" Paragon Control still means those evil disgusting Reapers remain. These things are not the collective of their respective species. We see no evidence of that. The Catalyst says they're stored in Reaper form but where's their art? Culture? Where's their growth? They're husks, Preatorians, Scions, Cannibals... they have nothing left of what they were harvested from outside of a genetic similiarity.

They were created to be all-powerful weapons of death and indoctrination. The universe is better with them destroyed. And I regret that wiping this evil away from the galaxy results in the genocide of all synthetics but the fact that these weapons exist in all other endings (or succeed in the genocide of all sparefaring species) is too great a cost.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 14 octobre 2012 - 10:40 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I guess this is what it boils down to, there are simply too many flawed decisions that Bioware made when writing ME3 that even interesting concepts like control winds up feeling out-of-place or unsatisfying.

Which is something I can relate to.

So in the end, we're all in this together.

Except the Synthesissies, but they aren't real people, anyway.

... I'm KIDDING!  No seriously, there's nothing wrong with people liking/justifying Green Beam.  It just ain't my style, bro.

Disagreeing then agreeing in the end?

The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom!