442 réponses à ce sujet

[BerzerkGene]

Heres a thing, with two demolishers and basically any other class who is weapon centric(or uses electric/biotic slash) like destroyers, it can still be farmed. You literally set up behind the 'farming' room.
So great job on changing nothing bioware. It is actually easier to get to certain objectives, in regards to that, legitimately, great job.

But bombers still suck.

[ReverendBeast]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Heres a thing, with two demolishers and basically any other class who is weapon centric(or uses electric/biotic slash) like destroyers, it can still be farmed. You literally set up behind the 'farming' room.
So great job on changing nothing bioware. It is actually easier to get to certain objectives, in regards to that, legitimately, great job.

But bombers still suck.

I think the Challenges is a good motivator for people to explore other maps and loud outs...  Definitely enhances my gaming experience and tweeks the competitive nature in me to get the banners.  The frankly punitive changes to the Maps and new cover buster enemies do nothing to enhance my experience...  To think BW did this to end camping is just way over the top in my opinion.

[121andrew]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

Did you forget that Mass Effect 3 has a cover system?
What is the point of changing maps to disallow using the aforementioned cover system?
So now we just have to run around like headless chickens hoping we'll survive, without using cover.
Yes, only two maps have been changed, but now Bioware decided to add a Geth Bomber, which means you can't take cover, ANYWHERE.

Good job Bioware.
And good job Jos, on your terrible map edits.

[ReverendBeast]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Yes, it was awful. You basically couldn't search U/Geth because it would just dump you into farming games. Heck non-farming geth games were a rarity.

I hated it. New changes are great.

I am really having a increasingly hard time with statements like the above...  Was it really so hard to start your own room and fill it with non campers??? I never had a problem doing it so I can't see this complaint as valid or logical.

Modifié par ReverendBeast, 14 octobre 2012 - 01:53 .

[K_O_513]

It's funny how lots of people act like Mass Effect 3 is such a high skill cap game like people who are good are doing something really intricate and special (outside of having good aim). Anyway, outside of the worst teams I've ever played on, FBWGG matches were the only gold matches I could play and not have my teammates get trashed by wave 7. Besides, it's not like everyone who played FBWGG played ONLY that. There are skilled people who have done matches like that before because of how unforgiving RNG can be. I doubt you saw anyone with a maxed or near maxed manifest playing FBWGG

[ReverendBeast]

121andrew wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

Did you forget that Mass Effect 3 has a cover system?
What is the point of changing maps to disallow using the aforementioned cover system?
So now we just have to run around like headless chickens hoping we'll survive, without using cover.
Yes, only two maps have been changed, but now Bioware decided to add a Geth Bomber, which means you can't take cover, ANYWHERE.

Good job Bioware.
And good job Jos, on your terrible map edits.

 How about Dragoons and possesd Abominations??? Strictly designed/introduced to push you out of cover and normally when you need it the most??? The RGL rule the day again?  

[78stonewobble]

ReverendBeast wrote...
How about Dragoons and possesd Abominations??? Strictly designed/introduced to push you out of cover and normally when you need it the most??? The RGL rule the day again?  

Run & Gun League?

[ShepComing4U]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

Thats ridiculous. I remember my first platinum match, I saw everybody run down into the room and start camping. I was like "Whats going on here?" I followed them and did the same, and then found out why. You're crazy if you think most players can go through an entire platinum match without camping at least a few times.

That being said, I thought it was a good strategy. I still got downed a LOT, and my teammates were always there to revive me because they knew the more players the better. I was always playing, and thats what I really liked about the camping. I wasn't always just sitting there waiting for them to finish the round, I was always in the thick of it, always on the edge of my seat when a few primes came down the stairs, or the Banshees were on their way.

I can agree with some of the other adjustments, but the Geth Bomber was an obvious tactic AGAINST campers. I understand some people didn't like it, but you cant just shun one style of gameplay because others dont like it. I dont like when people run around the maps recklessly, out of reach of their teammates when they need help and/or go down. Then everyone has to rush over there trying to help, which could throw off the entire mission. Should you take measures against them?

[ReverendBeast]

78stonewobble wrote...

ReverendBeast wrote...
How about Dragoons and possesd Abominations??? Strictly designed/introduced to push you out of cover and normally when you need it the most??? The RGL rule the day again?  

Run & Gun League?

 Yup! Just gets tiring trying to type it out 

[Mystical_Gaming]

I really didn't like the old firebase white anyways. Every time I tried to search random gold it was always firebase white geth and this got boring.

Now it's an exciting map and hopefully doesn't mean everyone will have gold lobbies with just firebase white more. Hopefully it will be like silver that has a ton of unknown unknown lobbies.

[ParatrooperSean]

Zero132132 wrote...
 Because there were so many counter-huggers, trying to find 'Unknown' lobbies was basically impossible.

Pure 100% bullsh*t.

Recent statistic released by Bioware (pre-patch and DLC)

28% of the games played were Firebase white. This includes FBW Cerberus and Reapers which are not farming games. It also includes farmers who do so in private lobbies, which do not affect public games.

So what you're left with is non-farmer games comprising greater than 72% of the public matches.

Modifié par ParatrooperSean, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:34 .

[ReverendBeast]

Mystical_Gaming wrote...

I really didn't like the old firebase white anyways. Every time I tried to search random gold it was always firebase white geth and this got boring.

Now it's an exciting map and hopefully doesn't mean everyone will have gold lobbies with just firebase white more. Hopefully it will be like silver that has a ton of unknown unknown lobbies.

Was it really so hard to start your own room and invite your friends? I think the real issue is a bit of the elitist mentality breaking through

You know... "I am an awesome player and me and my buds can whip through a Plat run in 14:30!!! Why should some mook who sits in the "room of shame" finish a Plat match like me???"

[78stonewobble]

Well if the problem wasn't farming (aka $'s for bioware which would be a totally understandable reason) but just that people had fun "wrong".... Why not... pft... ban singleplayer cheaters?

Or even have so many characters or maps... All it takes is the "right guy" defining the fun class and fun map.

[RSX Titan]

So a random dev decided he didn't like camping and took steps to eliminate it? Does he know how badly he failed? FBWGG is still easily farmable by a decent team that camps the room of boredom.

Modifié par RSX Titan, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:37 .

[ASmoothCriminalx]

The map is much better now as a result. Plus, I was never a fan of the "difficultly doesn't matter" strategy that existed because of the map's layout. So, I'm glad it's been changed.

[Kinwaras]

there should be a map where you can actually use entrench tactics and characters...

[ReverendBeast]

Kinwaras wrote...

there should be a map where you can actually use entrench tactics and characters...

Uh, there was. Until Jos personally decided to give us the big FU boys/gals...  Everyone makes mistakes... Like the ending in SP...  Jos man up and admit your vision changes have really made the game at Plat really,really,really over the top difficult if you don't like rushing the spawns over and over and over again.
 

[SilentStep79]

before the retaliation pack i gotta admit i was a fbw farmer!!! still am from time to time though it is much harder now. my whole thing is to step up in difficulty gradually, but try to avoid complacency. well it was a welcome surprise, when faced with a hellish fbwgg or trying some u/u/g, to find that i was more competent on u/u/g than i expected! i still play all difficulties with my buddies, but now i'm FARMING u/u/g. i don't know how common my case is amongst mp players, but maybe this is what BW had in mind. maybe they just wanted to keep players on their toes in all maps. i know there has been unexpected fallout in the gold lobbies, but this is the first week of the new dlc, i think things(and people) will find their own levels.

[geceka]

Personally, I warmly welcome those changes in the Retaliation DLC, both the new enemy units and the changes to White/Glacier.

Regarding FBW/G/G (or P), that was just severely broken – The way people played that was not a strategy, but an exploit. You can't tell me that there wasn't a huge difference about how games on this map felt compared to all the other maps. The way in which the enemy AI works, the layout of the map didn't work at all. I mean, if enemies were smart enough to actually go around the control room and enter from the back, things would have been different – In fact, hunters sometimes came in that way if someone was camping by the little cover outside the control room, went to the back ammo box to replenish and accidentally lured a cloaked hunter there. But that rarely happened. Unless people were using extremely low-level gear, an FBW/G/G game was pretty much a guaranteed extraction, and FBW/G/P was really easy if you had a reasonable loadout.

Also, I've played the MP on Xbox frequently since March. At least in my timezone (EU time, typically on evenings), finding a non-FBW/G/G game on Gold was hard, but at least typically had good players in it. It would be a lie for me to say that I did not find this extremely annoying. Finding a non-FBW Platinum game, well, I never managed that.

Now after the changes, nearly all Gold games I find on XBox are U/U, and I'm very very happy about that. Also, I absolutely don't mind FBW coming up as the random map anymore, because playing there is just as much fun as any other map now, at least for me.

Regarding the new enemies, they are fine too. They address specific weaknesses in those factions, which just adds more variety – Cerberus was pretty much nullified by having someone with stasis on the team – not only for Phantoms, but stasis can also be used to just make *any* non-armored enemy stop shooting, so against Cerberus, which lacked an armored mook, it was stellar. Dragoons kill two birds with one stone by being a cover-buster melee unit and being unaffected by stasis (and lash).

Geth, not being able to throw grenades, pretty much allowed you to kite them on any map, occasionally going to cover, proceed to decimate them, run again when they come close, rinse, repeat. The Bomber spices that up quite a bit.

None of the changes/additions are game breaking, not even strategy-breaking. I've played lots of games in the last couple of days where we were mostly camping, but occasionally had to pull back/evacuate because the position got overrun. But that's what makes the games fun, at least to my mind, e.g. that "things happen", rather than sitting behind a counter for the entire game. A strategy being "valid" does not mean it has to apply to absolutely any situation at absolutely any point in the game – Run-and-gunners will occasionally camp together for a bit, campers will occasionally scatter. The core-strategies remain valid, but they are still that, "strategies" applicable to certain situations, not "exploits" that are pretty much a win-button. Doing away with those was a huge improvement to the game and its longevity.

Conclusion: Strategy != exploit. The difference is that a strategy applies to certain circumstances (and those circumstances only), but not to *any* situation. FBW/G/G counter-hugging always worked, especially against Geth, but against the other factions too.

If there's anything to criticize, it's that Collectors are way more powerful than any other faction, but then again, they introduce some interesting mechanics that are truly new, not just a re-skin of an existing faction (it took me a while to realize these huge explosions came from possessed abominations :-)). I can live with that.

Also, it's quite weird that Reapers are the easiest faction right now. It's still the *Reapers*, they should be the most powerful by far. I remember that when the game came out, it used to be that way, but with all the nerfs/buffs in between, Reapers have been forgotten along the way. No matter if you're playing regularly or soloing, they are the weakest right now :-/

[ReverendBeast]

geceka wrote...

Also, I've played the MP on Xbox frequently since March. At least in my timezone (EU time, typically on evenings), finding a non-FBW/G/G game on Gold was hard, but at least typically had good players in it. It would be a lie for me to say that I did not find this extremely annoying. Finding a non-FBW Platinum game, well, I never managed that.

Now after the changes, nearly all Gold games I find on XBox are U/U, and I'm very very happy about that. Also, I absolutely don't mind FBW coming up as the random map anymore, because playing there is just as much fun as any other map now, at least for me..

Conclusion: Strategy != exploit. The difference is that a strategy applies to certain circumstances (and those circumstances only), but not to *any* situation. FBW/G/G counter-hugging always worked, especially against Geth, but against the other factions too.

/

So by that train of logic...  Rushing spawns (a la RGL) = exploit as well no???  I mean we know where the spawns are, so rushing a spawn and a Cobra later it is toast so I can do what???  Oh yeah rush another spawn and rinse and repeat... 4 players 24 Cobras and rushing the spawns is a higher level of play and not an exploit as well???  I fail to see your logic. 

Also how hard is /was it to start your own room and fill it with UUG?

[Prince Bubblegeth]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

FBW matches are so much more fun now

[geceka]

ReverendBeast wrote...

So by that train of logic...  Rushing spawns (a la RGL) = exploit as well no???  I mean we know where the spawns are, so rushing a spawn and a Cobra later it is toast so I can do what???  Oh yeah rush another spawn and rinse and repeat... 4 players 24 Cobras and rushing the spawns is a higher level of play and not an exploit as well???  I fail to see your logic. 

What does that have to do with anything? People only use this exploit in private lobbies, you can't just go ahead and do this in random games, because it requires coordination – A single player not knowing what's going on messes up the spawns, breaking it. So at least this is not a problem *at all* to people who just want to play normal, legit random games.

Your logic goes along the lines of "there are other exploits too, so you shouldn't fix any of them, as it's unfair to the people using that particular exploit". Sure, there is spawn-rushing (but see above), missile-glitching (which I despise), etc..., but I am happy to have that particular exploit strategy gone. If they remove the others too, all the better. 

Nevertheless though, I did not say I condone any exploit in any way. I'd love for the spawn system to become less predictable. However, it is an issue that does not really affect a large majority of players in the same way that FBWGG farming did. I've played a lot of games, always with a mic, and not a single time has anyone ever asked me to participate in spawn-nuking in a random game. Not even once.

ReverendBeast wrote...

Also how hard is /was it to start your own room and fill it with UUG?

I rarely ever host myself, I just want to get in a game quickly. Really, it shouldn't be *my* responsibility to find a non-exploit game. It does not boil down to preference – You would have a point if I was complaining about people always playing, say, Firebase Goddess because they love Asari architecture and I was sick of that map. My gripe was not with the map per se, but the fact that people only chose it to exploit it. FBW is a great map now, I always liked its looks, and now it's playable as well.

Modifié par geceka, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:25 .

[Lokiwithrope]

I agree with Joe; farming-camping is the issue, but Farming in general is not. Farming just means you're manipulating the enemy and reaping the rewards; you can farm and not stay in one spot.

[78stonewobble]

ReverendBeast wrote...

So by that train of logic...  Rushing spawns (a la RGL) = exploit as well no???  I mean we know where the spawns are, so rushing a spawn and a Cobra later it is toast so I can do what???  Oh yeah rush another spawn and rinse and repeat... 4 players 24 Cobras and rushing the spawns is a higher level of play and not an exploit as well???  I fail to see your logic. 

Also how hard is /was it to start your own room and fill it with UUG?

Offcourse it is... And you don't even need cobras but it's kinda hard to stay on a moral high horse if you admit that. -..-

And the spawn thing? Happens in 8 outta 10 games on silver even.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:30 .

[ReverendBeast]

[quote]geceka wrote...

[quote]
What does that have to do with anything? People only use this exploit in private lobbies, you can't just go ahead and do this in random games, because it requires coordination – A single player not knowing what's going on messes up the spawns, breaking it. So at least this is not a problem *at all* to people who just want to play normal, legit random games.

Your logic goes along the lines of "there are other exploits too, so you shouldn't fix any of them, as it's unfair to the people using that particular exploit". Sure, there is spawn-rushing (but see above), missile-glitching (which I despise), etc..., but I am happy to have that particular exploit strategy gone. If they remove the others too, all the better. 

Nevertheless though, I did not say I condone any exploit in any way. I'd love for the spawn system to become less predictable. However, it is an issue that does not really affect a large majority of players in the same way that FBWGG farming did. I've played a lot of games, always with a mic, and not a single time has anyone ever asked me to participate in spawn-nuking in a random game. Not even once.


I rarely ever host myself, I just want to get in a game quickly. Really, it shouldn't be *my* responsibility to find a non-exploit game. It does not boil down to preference – You would have a point if I was complaining about people always playing, say, Firebase Goddess because they love Asari architecture and I was sick of that map. My gripe was not with the map per se, but the fact that people only chose it to exploit it.

[/quote]

 You missed my point entirely...  Your statements are purely subjective...  Camping strategy = exploit. My counter was: speed runs =exploit, also a subjective statement... 
You chose not to make your own room and host; I chose to look for FBWGP and if I could not find it I made my own...  How is that asking you to to make it "your" responsibility?  

Also if 28% of the games were FBW then that means you had a 72% chance of NOT finding a FBW game.
I mean anyone can pontificate on their playing style being superior,better etc...  But the numbers do not add up to this "I couldn't find a UUG game" meme...

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your lack of willingness to start your own room is a problem for the whole player base so dear that BW has to completely change the MP game mechanics... 

Think on this...  BW states 42% of players actually finish the SP game with Casual available as a difficulty level...
How many would finish if you had these same mechanics changes in SP???
10% percent??? 
Look I bought this game for the MP primarily...  I figured the SP was my to train up for the MP...
You know why I bought it for MP?  My friends begged me to come play with them... 
I bought through the best marketing strategy ever... Word of mouth and ran a few demo games with them, which got me hooked... If these same mechanics had been in place during the demo... I would have waited for the new HALO and bought that...  I simply do not find RGL rules enjoyable. 

Modifié par ReverendBeast, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:58 .