442 réponses à ce sujet

[SageRuffin]

Please disregard. I hit the wrong button.

Modifié par SageRuffin, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:55 .

[ParatrooperSean]

Rokayt wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Over 30% of the games were Firebase White according to a random stats of interest image they made.

Which, of course included Cerberus & Reapers and private W/G/G matches. 

That was a week after the camping stratagy was formulated.

The data had LONG outdated itself by now.

I was referring to the random facts Bioware posted a few weeks ago. FBW was 28% (or about). 

[mbergeron468]

SageRuffin wrote...

plain numbers wrote...

Farming will be back. Not speedruns, just plain old farming. It may not involve camping or minor exploits, and it may not be as spread as White was. But with the store always there, same and old for everyone, especially newcomers, people will keep trying to find the most efficient and care-free way to get credits to buy their level IV ammo.

And I will help them of course, when we cross paths. I started out with White, got my GPS to X and actually had a chance at real Gold matches back when I wasn't half as good as I am now.

It's just that punishing people for adapting to a retarded store is a bad idea for me. Either change the store --which is possibly the no.1 thing the fanbase has been asking for a while now-- or do nothing. I'm all for fixing exploits, of course, and adjusting the geth grab mechanic was a good move far as I'm concerned. But everything else, really now?

Seconded. It also helps with leveling since a lot of the classes aren't worth crap (H.Adepts anyone? Ugh...) until they hit at least level 15, which can get pretty tedious if you're just playing randoms on Bronze.

And the main problem with the store is the store is that, as an editor on The Escapist put it, it's too much like a CCG (i.e. Magic, Duel Masters, or Yu-Gi-Oh!) in regards to the unlocks. Sure, you can "game the system" through strategic deletions (otherwise I may have never gotten my beloved girls: the Fury, Shadow, and Demolisher), but due to the "random" factor, there's a chance you could have played the game since launch and not unlock a specific item.

Like the lady/gentlemen above me implied, you can't stop farmers (figuratively and literally, heh). You can maybe slow them down, much like what's happening now, but you can never get rid of them, not unless there was a mechanic to completely randomize the map itself and not just the location.

And with sword or grenade in hand, I will greet them with open arms, and we all shall bathe in riches and XP together.

Besides, unless the people you were with somehow knew what the geth were doing before they did, White/Geth/Gold was still a hefty challenge, especially if you ever had that one Hunter, Pyro, or Prime who somehow managed to take the back entrance instead of the front or side. >__<

Addendum: Oh, and F@#k Collectors, with a capital F. F@#k them right in the face.

Human adept is amazing way before level 15 with the new sungularity and shockwave. The problem with the store goes back to how many players do not spend their credits wisely. New players hoping to get the best weapons and gear waste their time with PSP's and complain that they cant get anything, the key is to buy recruit packs then veteran and once those items are maxed then move on to higher packs. The playerbase has become too concerned with having the rares and ultra rares whne some of the uncommons will work on gold just fine.

[VilyaEleni]

Wait, so it wasn't changed to stop farmers, it was changed to stop people who liked to play the game defensibly rather than running around like an idiot?

Boy, thanks.

[Smikerama]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

It was a good call.  Not only did it address camping, but the new layout opens the map up and forces some new strategy even for those who weren't camping before.  Firebase White was far too predicable before.

[BerzerkGene]

AleHanSolo wrote...

yes, farming defeated the purpose of the game, besides, the overall changes to the game is good, I like it

since the purpose of the game is to have fun...i don't see how it defeats it, if people have fun farming, why not?
Overall, not really. Everyone still forgets the healthgate/shieldgate deal.
The hazards, okay, those are definitely cool, the sandstorm is actually awesome, just makes me lag like crap though. And it has no effect on enemies, which seems unfair.
But bombers are a serious pain, mainly because they are completely silent and they stun, all the while being as tough as pyros without weakpoints.
Dragoons are insane, they're the equivilant of a 'rusher'. They zoom is, smash the crap out of the area, down you, then immediately stomp you.

[joker_jack]

There are still places to farm if you know where to look.

[kingvenom41392]

Campings only a problem with objectives to each there own play style taking any away is shottyy though i do enjoy the ne layout despite the ****ed up spawns

[Tim_H]

Heh, there was one day a few weeks back in which every gold I joined was FBWGG. I actually enjoyed it when the team got stomped a few times...

[That1 ME3 Dude]

it was not bad i play on 360 and it was very easy to find a match. i did UUG all the time i only farmed when DLC came out cuz the packs are great at giving you what you dont want

[BerzerkGene]

DarkseidXIII wrote...

No! People are just whiny d@#%s. I say this as a non-farmer who enjoyed the occasional fbw/g/g. By that, I mean jumping in, going Rambo, killing EVERYTHING, and still finding time to rez teammates. FUN!

Your attitude is both kind of rude and oddly refreshing.

[nuyo]

They over did it on fbw. Have you ever tried defending the hack objective in that mid section with 4 entry points? It's just crazy!

[DBlack930]

Evo_9 wrote...

so now platinum and gold maps are littered with farmers who suck where as before they were isoldated to fbw.

Careful what you wish for ....

lol

And yet aren't you one of those who was personally offended by the very idea that the store system should be changed to make all the content more obtainable by newer and more casual players?  They're playing gold and platinum because they think that's the only way they can get credits without wasting hundreds of hours of their life.

Let me break it down and make it easy for you: give everyone a reasonable chance to unlock (not necessarily max out, but at least unlock) all the content, and most players will then naturally gravitate to the skill level they should be playing at, where they have the most fun and kick the most a**, and gold and platinum games will suddenly become a lot more enjoyable for those good enough to play them.

Instead, now they're being forced to carry players "who suck" who really should be playing bronze and silver.  Careful what you wish for, indeed...

[Smikerama]

VilyaEleni wrote...

Wait, so it wasn't changed to stop farmers, it was changed to stop people who liked to play the game defensibly rather than running around like an idiot?

Boy, thanks.

You can still play defensively,.  You just have to look down more than one hallway now and watch your flanks, just like every other map. 

[That1 ME3 Dude]

they just added a hallway which is easy to guard so its not hard unless you have like 2-4 geth bombers zapping you on top of pyros and the trick shot hunters thet can shot you when they are stunned

[BerzerkGene]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

Wait...whats wrong with camping?
While i don't mind the changes, i mean the map was tiny, you can camp nearly any map, and you can still camp white, you just have to move to a different location.
At the very least you could have made the changes to glacier less lazy, i mean two crates? not even a wall?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

Why is taking a defensive position (camping) considered abusive, but speed run farming (involving taking advantage of spawn point creature vulnerabilities) not considered abusive? I'd venture to say at least as many people are going to be mad about only being able to find spawn point nuking games as got mad about "only being able to find camping games." Are there any plans to address spawn point nuking?

Certain character classes are very squishy and certain character classes have skills that tend to make one think that that camping with them is the best playstyle for the character.  For example, the justicar bubble speced defensively and the demolisher with her pylon. Are such skills going to be redesigned now that camping is pretty much out? Certain classes, like the Krogod Kroguard don't really need cover and so people who love to play them love the run and gun play. Other people hate being forced into run and gun play.

[mbergeron468]

VilyaEleni wrote...

Wait, so it wasn't changed to stop farmers, it was changed to stop people who liked to play the game defensibly rather than running around like an idiot?

Boy, thanks.

Camping is called playing defensibly, but those who run around are idiots? You can still play defensibly on that map, you act like they romved the ability to camp. If you could only win when the map was layed out the old way then you were probably playing above your skill level and you simply used the most known strategy to beat gold. If you truly play in a defensive matter then the new lay out shouldn't matter to you as you can still sit like always.

[VilyaEleni]

Smikerama wrote...

VilyaEleni wrote...

Wait, so it wasn't changed to stop farmers, it was changed to stop people who liked to play the game defensibly rather than running around like an idiot?

Boy, thanks.

You can still play defensively,.  You just have to look down more than one hallway now and watch your flanks, just like every other map. 

Always did that anyway but now I'm just waiting for them to take out cover altogether if that's how they feel... Some of us aren't good enough with aim to dash around and blow things to pieces.

Plus on FBW, as someone already mentioned, the hack in that camping room is now horrible to hold, they come in everywhere.

Probably doesn't help I only ever play with one other person.

[ReverendBeast]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

I came to the game late.  Started playing in July as my friends begged me to buy the game.  I played the heck out of the SP thought you guys did an awesome job. 

But, I think you tailored the  MP game to the .01% percent of players who are the BSN community. 

I have read enough on BSN to know that folks here hate camping... 

I have also read your feelings on players not using the whole map as you prefer...  But I really feel you have discounted a way for a good many players to enjoy the game as they see fit to play it. 

Kinda feels to me like you want to control ther MP experience as much as the SP experience .
 ie. "Use the whole map."  

I think more players that could make it through a Platinum match for the first time without having to play 200+ hours of game time to do it, is a good thing for the game.  Maybe not the BSNer's as you know these are the die hard, true blue, ace supportes of the game and they will do just fine.

Only time will tell if these anti-camping changes will keep players interested long enough to keep grinding out credits to up grade their kits... 

Honestly, if the game was like this during the demo and the SP.  I  would not have thought it worth the effort.

Just my thoughts..  I will step back now and await the attack of the Pyros (which you can't counter grab any more)...

Modifié par ReverendBeast, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:18 .

[mbergeron468]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

Why is taking a defensive position (camping) considered abusive, but speed run farming (involving taking advantage of spawn point creature vulnerabilities) not considered abusive? I'd venture to say at least as many people are going to be mad about only being able to find spawn point nuking games as got mad about "only being able to find camping games." Are there any plans to address spawn point nuking?

Certain character classes are very squishy and certain character classes have skills that tend to make one think that that camping with them is the best playstyle for the character.  For example, the justicar bubble speced defensively and the demolisher with her pylon. Are such skills going to be redesigned now that camping is pretty much out? Certain classes, like the Krogod Kroguard don't really need cover and so people who love to play them love the run and gun play. Other people hate being forced into run and gun play.

You don't have to camp with those classes you choose to. The bubble specced for defense is pretty useless on highe difficulties and the offensive path would be much more team oriented with or without camping. People will not be running into speedrun lobbies since that takes people talking and knwoing what to do. The camping that was going on was making it so finding an U/U/G that wasnt geth/white almost impossible for players. You are not being forced into run and gun play just find a new place to camp.

[SINisterSniper55]

i don't understand the lash against camping... it's an effective and legitimate strategy ESPECIALLY when taking cover is such an important aspect of the game.

I camp on whatever maps I can regardless of class. When you're outnumbered vastly by an enemy, charging at them is a great way to kill yourself. If you hold a position and take them out as they come to you that's effective and smart. There shouldn't be a penalty for playing smart. People camp on EVERY map, changing FBW just moves the spot to camp back a bit more and takes a team w/ communication.

Glacier is terrible now in my opinion. Too many intersecting lines of fire on that map for any real positions to be holdable. There's no point you can funnel enemies into and they come from all sides with seemingly ultimate, relentless firepower without much chance you can push them back unless you're superiorly skilled.

There are other maps that still work, Dagger and Reactor can be decent, as can Rio in only that it is so big it's possible to pick off enemies before they get to you. Can't remember the names of others, but maps with one or two spots you can hold down and "camp" are the best maps because they involve the most strategy.

No, running around the map and shooting things while your teammates are forced to chase your downed body constantly is NOT strategy, it's foolish.

Want to argue against camping? I argue that it would be the best way for the allied forces to fight a superior enemy: better positioning leads to fewer deaths and more kills. Sure, it's a guerrilla war we're fighting but it still is regardless of camping tactics when we drop in, do what we have to do, and get out.

That's it, end rant

[SageRuffin]

mbergeron468 wrote...

Human adept is amazing way before level 15 with the new sungularity and shockwave.

Sorry, but I'm gonna need a bit more justification than that. Either that, or I guess I just suck. With the exception of the Fury and the basic asari, I frequently get turned into ground beef regardless of difficulty.

The problem with the store goes back to how many players do not spend their credits wisely. New players hoping to get the best weapons and gear waste their time with PSP's and complain that they cant get anything, the key is to buy recruit packs then veteran and once those items are maxed then move on to higher packs. The playerbase has become too concerned with having the rares and ultra rares whne some of the uncommons will work on gold just fine.

While you do have a point, it doesn't over look the random factor built into the store itself. That should've been reserved for something like a "grab bag" mechanic or something - something where you throw caution to the wind, say the magic phrase of "big money, no Whammies", and hope for the best. Tiers within the store and escalating prices based on weapon and model probably could've worked just fine.

By the by, f@#k Collectors (you know, the enemy faction). F@#k them right in the face.

Modifié par SageRuffin, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:17 .

[sweet-d]

bclagge wrote...

When a game begins to cycle ONLY one or two maps, via the community's choice, it is the beginning of the end of a game's popularity. Ending the plague of FBWGG will keep this game fresh longer.

Yeah or it kind finally kill multiplayer once and for all. I mean hopefully it does.

[mbergeron468]

ReverendBeast wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

I came to the game late.  Started playing in July as my friends begged me to buy the game.  I played the heck out of the SP thought you guys did an awesome job. 

But, I think you tailored the  MP game to the .01% percent of players who are the BSN community. 

I have read enough on BSN to know that folks here hate camping... 

I have also read your feelings on players not using the whole map as you prefer...  But I really feel you have discounted a way for a good many players to enjoy the game as they see fit to play it. 

Kinda fells to me like you want to control ther MP experience as much as the SP experience .  I think more players that could make it through a Platinum match for the first time without having to play 200+ hours of game time to do it, is a good thing for the game.Maybe not the BSNer's as you know these are the die hard, true blue, ace supportes of the game and they will do just fine.

Only time will tell if these anti-camping changes will keep players interested long enough to keep grinding out credits to up grade their kits... 

Honestly, if the game was like this during the demo and the SP.  I  would not have thought it worth the effort.

Just my thoughts..  I will step back now and await the attack of the Pyros (which you can't counter grab any more)...

What anti-camping changes have they made? they added newstuff to one map and blocked off a room on another and also made it so an armored unit cannot be grabbed. The maps still have plenty of places to camp effectively and make the gam easy. People who play using camp startegies need to learn to find new areas if the old ones no longer work. Bioware is not forcing players to play a certain way.