442 réponses à ce sujet

[CronicleChicken]

Fox-snipe wrote...

ReverendBeast wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

I find it funny that a large number of people came out of the woodwork to whine & moan about how Infiltrators were the majority of players on Gold, and that was backed up with evidence by Bioware.  So now when Bioware shows how a single map is played more often than all others (~30%) and decides to tweak it so it's less desirable (no longer an "I WIN" scenario), that's then being jerks?

Okay so let me break it down a little further...  BW fixes the Banshee teleport bug, so now camping for FBWGP requires a lot more coordination during the Banshee and Prime waves.  BW Buffs Pyros, so no more counter grabs, Kill stomp enables just about everyone.  Prime turrets now bang you as well. Rocket Troopers can fire a rocket at you when they are facing 180 degrees from you and they have super kinetic abilities that allow them to accurately bring fire on you while supended in mid air.  Stunlocks, need I say more on stunlocks? That was all before the DLC.  Now we have Bombers as well...
 
Okay I don't want to put up a wall of text...  So I won't go into the Collectors, and the Cerebus buffs as well...  But on the whole I think, the game has definitely shifted into a run and gun shooter experience a lot like HALO.

No other map gave you 75% immunity to enemies and 100% immunity from being flanked.  THAT is the problem that White had.  Farming was side-effect of that.  Camping, in general, is fine.  The problem is being able to camp in one spot, for the whole match, with practically zero threat/risk.

Even with Bombers and Pyros (granted they cheat and flame you through/over cover), you still had pretty much no risk to worry about.  Bombers can be taken down easily with random gunfire/combos.  Considering all the Geth would be entering through one of two entrances, both of which wind up combining into the same area, combos are going to be a given.

And you need to stop focusing strictly on Platinum, because these problems existed long before that was introduced.

As for the part I underlined, none of that mattered when you camped on White.

Really? Did we play the same game or is there a different FBW everyone is talking about? There was not a zero threat/risk and you weren't guaranteed a camping spot the whole match. Pyros still, Prime still, Atlas' still, Phantoms still, Geth Rocket Troopers still shoot you while in cover and now even more so.  FBW is different but FBW wasn't the problem...

[Uh Cold]

Had a demolisher join my u/u/g and his play style was that of a FBWGG player.
He couldn't keep up with the rest of us as we ran around and posted up when needed.
He left before he even got 30k in round 8,

These changes will hopefully help the community get better at the game or at the very least have them more interested in actually learning how to get better rather than finding that comfort zone and abusing it for 7 months.

Those who relied on FBWGG for credits were a liability in normal games and in the end only ruin their endgame with the idea that max manifest = easy mode in gold / plat.
There are multiple difficulties for a reason, want to unlock stuff faster?
Get better, that's your incentive to play.

[ReverendBeast]

Fox-snipe wrote...

ReverendBeast wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

I find it funny that a large number of people came out of the woodwork to whine & moan about how Infiltrators were the majority of players on Gold, and that was backed up with evidence by Bioware.  So now when Bioware shows how a single map is played more often than all others (~30%) and decides to tweak it so it's less desirable (no longer an "I WIN" scenario), that's then being jerks?

Okay so let me break it down a little further...  BW fixes the Banshee teleport bug, so now camping for FBWGP requires a lot more coordination during the Banshee and Prime waves.  BW Buffs Pyros, so no more counter grabs, Kill stomp enables just about everyone.  Prime turrets now bang you as well. Rocket Troopers can fire a rocket at you when they are facing 180 degrees from you and they have super kinetic abilities that allow them to accurately bring fire on you while supended in mid air.  Stunlocks, need I say more on stunlocks? That was all before the DLC.  Now we have Bombers as well...
 
Okay I don't want to put up a wall of text...  So I won't go into the Collectors, and the Cerebus buffs as well...  But on the whole I think, the game has definitely shifted into a run and gun shooter experience a lot like HALO.

No other map gave you 75% immunity to enemies and 100% immunity from being flanked.  THAT is the problem that White had.  Farming was side-effect of that.  Camping, in general, is fine.  The problem is being able to camp in one spot, for the whole match, with practically zero threat/risk.

Even with Bombers and Pyros (granted they cheat and flame you through/over cover), you still had pretty much no risk to worry about.  Bombers can be taken down easily with random gunfire/combos.  Considering all the Geth would be entering through one of two entrances, both of which wind up combining into the same area, combos are going to be a given.

And you need to stop focusing strictly on Platinum, because these problems existed long before that was introduced.

As for the part I underlined, none of that mattered when you camped on White.

See this is where I just can't see your point. So there are a dozen maps...  One of which gave the players a good defensive position.  Granted...  But what about hacks, deliveries and devices???  That wasn't challenging enough???   Really stunlocks don't matter when you're making a pizza run????  All of the underlined don't matter when you have a hack out doors???  Are we playin the same game??? 

To your comment on Plat.  Okay, BW and the RGL(Run and Gun League) both agree that farming is okay and the RNG mechanics of the store really make it necessary to "grind for credits" no???
So the most efficient use of time is play Plat for credits...  That is a reality based on numbers not opinion.  You can choose to spend your time earing less credits and having RGL matches for fun, but serious farming is strictly Plat.

Modifié par ReverendBeast, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:06 .

[OblivionDawn]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

I'm glad the Bioware devs understand the difference.

Some people around here incorrectly use the two terms interchangeably.

[CronicleChicken]

Uh Cold wrote...

Had a demolisher join my u/u/g and his play style was that of a FBWGG player.
He couldn't keep up with the rest of us as we ran around and posted up when needed.
He left before he even got 30k in round 8,

These changes will hopefully help the community get better at the game or at the very least have them more interested in actually learning how to get better rather than finding that comfort zone and abusing it for 7 months.

Those who relied on FBWGG for credits were a liability in normal games and in the end only ruin their endgame with the idea that max manifest = easy mode in gold / plat.
There are multiple difficulties for a reason, want to unlock stuff faster?
Get better, that's your incentive to play.

So all this "FBWGG was all I ever found" was it really true because Missle Glitching Plat is all I can find and I don't see even half the threads for that as I saw the "farming ruining the community" bull. Missle Glitch was supposedly fixed, again. Speed runs still happen, I do them when friends are online. Farming still happens, I do them occasionally. However, everyone is happy cause one map changed? Geth have gotten cheaper, Collecters, uh... Reapers, uh... I guess everyone is happy who wasn't happy before, right?

[CronicleChicken]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

I'm glad the Bioware devs understand the difference.

Some people around here incorrectly use the two terms interchangeably.

I know they say  farming has never been an issue but actions do speak louder than words

[Uh Cold]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

The way people camped on FBWGG plagued PUGs with terrible teammates and the changes done can only make the community better imo.

No more training wheels for those not ready to run gold / plat.
Stay in your difficulty and get better.

[CNevarezN]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

 Rotfl! Yeah, that makes sense. At your own personal request, you wanted to change how people camped. Never mind farming, just camping. It's the same thing man o.O Given what one did in GWG/P

[Lacboi86]

FBW was ok before, I farmed every once and a while. Who hasn't? We all did it to get quick creds, so what? It's a co-op game. Now that the enemies has changed or upgraded and our weapons constantly buff/nerf, it's very hard to honestly say that I'm having fun. It's a video game, we play to have fun. Yes it's true that farming a lot is bad or using the same guns and kits is bad but it's our choice how we like our gameplay. We are all different, If others don't like someone's playstyle they can leave the game. Personally I have almost maxed out my manifest, I only play because I enjoy playing this game. It's one of the best but with all the changes the game isn't that fun anymore. Staying on topic FBW isn't fun anymore.

[CNevarezN]

Uh Cold wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

The way people camped on FBWGG plagued PUGs with terrible teammates and the changes done can only make the community better imo.

No more training wheels for those not ready to run gold / plat.
Stay in your difficulty and get better.

 Training Wheels? You take this game way to seriously man.

[Fox-snipe]

ReverendBeast wrote...

See this is where I just can't see your point. So there are a bakers dozen maps...  One of which gave the players a good defensive position.  Granted...  But what about hacks, deliveries and devices???  That wasn't challenging enough???   Really stunlocks don't matter when you're making a pizza run????  All of the underlined don't matter when you have a hack out doors???  Are we playin the same game??? 

Objectives were 3 out of 11 waves.  And considering for most of the game people could just sit and hide the whole time, they usually had a full salvo of rockets at the ready for objectives.  That they camped still made objectives easier than they would have been through other methods of play.

To your comment on Plat.  Okay, BW and the RGL(Run and Gun League) both agree that farming is okay and the RNG mechanics of the store really make it necessary to "grind for credits" no???

So the most efficient use of time is play Plat for credits...  That is a reality based on numbers not opinion.  You can choose to spend your time earing less credits and having RGL matches for fun, but serious farming is strictly Plat.

Now see, this is where I start having problems with this type of opinion, even if Bioware does not.  The ability to farm for credits and thus the better equipment devalues all of the unlocks since you no longer have to put in an adequate amount of effort to earn them.  And yes being able to sit in a single room is a lower amount of effort.  I also hate strict speedruns for the same reason.  However, I am not opposed to "camping" temporarily when you need some breathing space or to recharge your shields.  You should't be able to do that for the whole game though and without being at risk to flanking.

It's really as simple as what I said earlier, White allowed a much higher relative amount of safety compared to other maps.  As much as I dislike speedrunning, at least that requires you to be on the move and keeping an eye on what's potentially behind you and dealing with the unknown (what could be called a higher level of "skill").

And yes I realize how thin the ice is I just stepped out on.  My feet are already wet, but it's late, so meh.

[Antagony]

Reegar Carbine + Flamer destroys bombers fairly quick, and pretty much everything else, so FBWGG is still relatively easy.

[demondioma]

I like the map changes but the Geth bomber is too much. Saw it, tried it on Gold, will never ever play Geth again.
And if we can't grab Pyros then they shouldn't be able to jump around either.

[Lord Rosario]

I don't understand this concept that sitting in one place isn't a fair tactic but forcing enemies to spawn in a single specific place, cutting animations short to fire more quickly with reload canceling, and generally using the mechanics of the game against it's self to go beyond it's intended purpose isn't.

Compared to some of the other things that are considered perfectly fine, camping should seriously be a non-issue.

[Uh Cold]

CronicleChicken wrote...

Uh Cold wrote...

Had a demolisher join my u/u/g and his play style was that of a FBWGG player.
He couldn't keep up with the rest of us as we ran around and posted up when needed.
He left before he even got 30k in round 8,

These changes will hopefully help the community get better at the game or at the very least have them more interested in actually learning how to get better rather than finding that comfort zone and abusing it for 7 months.

Those who relied on FBWGG for credits were a liability in normal games and in the end only ruin their endgame with the idea that max manifest = easy mode in gold / plat.
There are multiple difficulties for a reason, want to unlock stuff faster?
Get better, that's your incentive to play.

So all this "FBWGG was all I ever found" was it really true because Missle Glitching Plat is all I can find and I don't see even half the threads for that as I saw the "farming ruining the community" bull. Missle Glitch was supposedly fixed, again. Speed runs still happen, I do them when friends are online. Farming still happens, I do them occasionally. However, everyone is happy cause one map changed? Geth have gotten cheaper, Collecters, uh... Reapers, uh... I guess everyone is happy who wasn't happy before, right?

Missile* Glitching is an exploit that plagues plat. lobbies which everyone is aware of.
FBWG was a strategy which required knowing little about the game and getting rewarded for it.
Speed runs require knowledge of game mechanics to pull off successfully.

[Lord Rosario]

Antagony wrote...

Reegar Carbine + Flamer destroys bombers fairly quick, and pretty much everything else, so FBWGG is still relatively easy.

I had to chuckle at this.. You do know they fixed the glitch that allowed you to use both at once, right? Personally, I find Phasic rounds on a single shot sniper or shield drain/overload and a strong gun to work quite well.

[Fox-snipe]

Lord Rosario wrote...

I don't understand this concept that sitting in one place isn't a fair tactic but forcing enemies to spawn in a single specific place...isn't.

You realize that the old White abused that same exact thing, right?  And it also exploited the pathing of enemies so they'd always enter two choke points (ultimately combining into a single choke), never exploring flanking routes?

Modifié par Fox-snipe, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:20 .

[CronicleChicken]

Lord Rosario wrote...

I don't understand this concept that sitting in one place isn't a fair tactic but forcing enemies to spawn in a single specific place, cutting animations short to fire more quickly with reload canceling, and generally using the mechanics of the game against it's self to go beyond it's intended purpose isn't.

Compared to some of the other things that are considered perfectly fine, camping should seriously be a non-issue.

Second

[CronicleChicken]

Fox-snipe wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

I don't understand this concept that sitting in one place isn't a fair tactic but forcing enemies to spawn in a single specific place...isn't.

You realize that the old White abused that same exact thing, right?  And it also exploited the pathing of enemies so they'd always enter two choke points (ultimately combining into a single choke), never exploring flanking routes?

This is where you are wrong. There are three areas and the fact that you didn't mention it makes me wonder...

[MissFish]

CronicleChicken wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

I don't understand this concept that sitting in one place isn't a fair tactic but forcing enemies to spawn in a single specific place...isn't.

You realize that the old White abused that same exact thing, right?  And it also exploited the pathing of enemies so they'd always enter two choke points (ultimately combining into a single choke), never exploring flanking routes?

This is where you are wrong. There are three areas and the fact that you didn't mention it makes me wonder...

The AI never took the back pathway. They're not smart enough to go around.

[Eelectrica]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the new white a whole lot more than the original. Those new hallways off the side off the top ramp a great at keep the enemy manageable. As well as new routes to escape from if starting to get overwhelmed.

Almost Had great success on that map doing lone wolf achievement, just got skewered by a damn phantom a few seconds from extraction. Until I made a stupid tactical error it was a breeze.\\

And the ladder to no where is still there

Modifié par Eelectrica, 14 octobre 2012 - 07:28 .

[Uh Cold]

CNevarezN wrote...

Uh Cold wrote...

Jos Hendriks wrote...

The layout changes to Firebase White were made (at my personal request) to address camping, not farming. Farming has never been an issue.

The way people camped on FBWGG plagued PUGs with terrible teammates and the changes done can only make the community better imo.

No more training wheels for those not ready to run gold / plat.
Stay in your difficulty and get better.

 Training Wheels? You take this game way to seriously man.

No one wants a teammate who knows how to do one thing in one situation when countless things can happen yet they rely on that one situation for success and when **** goes bad they leave.

[ReverendBeast]

[quote]Fox-snipe wrote...

[quote]
Now see, this is where I start having problems with this type of opinion, even if Bioware does not.  The ability to farm for credits and thus the better equipment devalues all of the unlocks since you no longer have to put in an adequate amount of effort to earn them.  And yes being able to sit in a single room is a lower amount of effort.  I also hate strict speedruns for the same reason.  However, I am not opposed to "camping" temporarily when you need some breathing space or to recharge your shields.  You should't be able to do that for the whole game though and without being at risk to flanking.

It's really as simple as what I said earlier, White allowed a much higher relative amount of safety compared to other maps.  As much as I dislike speedrunning, at least that requires you to be on the move and keeping an eye on what's potentially behind you and dealing with the unknown (what could be called a higher level of "skill").

And yes I realize how thin the ice is I just stepped out on.  My feet are already wet, but it's late, so meh. [/quote]


The statements you made "you no longer have to put in an adequate amount of effort to earn them" and "(what could be called a higher level of "skill") are really very subjective.  It assumes that the RGL way to play this game is "better", "higher skill" etc... I hate speed runs.  I think players that do are people who suffer from ADHD....  See that's a subjective point of view...  How can anyone say home much time is enough to "earn them"???  Nope the whole my RGL is superior to the "room of shame" is just a non sequetor, sorry...

[CronicleChicken]

MissFish wrote...

CronicleChicken wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

I don't understand this concept that sitting in one place isn't a fair tactic but forcing enemies to spawn in a single specific place...isn't.

You realize that the old White abused that same exact thing, right?  And it also exploited the pathing of enemies so they'd always enter two choke points (ultimately combining into a single choke), never exploring flanking routes?

This is where you are wrong. There are three areas and the fact that you didn't mention it makes me wonder...

The AI never took the back pathway. They're not smart enough to go around.

Tell that to the countless Phantoms that synckilled me from entering from behind... oh and the rocket troopers... and the geth hunters... and the...

[Uh Cold]

Eelectrica wrote...

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the new white a whole lot more than the original. Those new hallways off the side off the top ramp a great at keep the enemy manageable. As well as new routes to escape from if starting to get overwhelmed.

Almost Had great success on that map doing lone wolf achievement, just got skewered by a damn phantom a few seconds from extraction. Until I made a stupid tactical error it was a breeze.

And the ladder to no where is still there

The new FBW is amazing and can be played like glacier, running a circuit or even defensive with the new class setups.