247 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost]

Emzamination wrote...

Casey - No. He seems to have forgotten that mass effect is about story first and foremost, then combat.

Mac - No. He needs to step back and start small. He's proven he just can't handle a AAA title like ME.

All in all, I'm very hopeful because if Me4 is a bust... I'd say some thorough performance evaluations will most likely be in order.

1. Combat is identical to ME2 just a few improvements.

2. He's written for ME since ME1.

[RainyDayLover]

 Casey Hudson, yes.

Mac Walters, **** no.

Modifié par RainyDayLover, 15 octobre 2012 - 01:31 .

[DarthLaxian]

hm...

they ****ed up big time with ME3 (so big time that i was about to curse like an old sailor when he was asking for things we would want in ME4)

so no, my trust is shaken - but on the other hand:

firstly: sadly we will not decide who directs the efforts to make ME4 and so no amount of cursing would help our cause!

secondly: i can not condemn them for their misstake(s) (hell i would have to condemn myself, too because i made a lot of misstakes, too) with ME3 (and Dragon Age II - if we look at the whole company)

thirdly: i can condemn them for doing this ****slap with the refusal ending in ME3...-.- that would have been their way out for all of us who hated the ending (well that and indoctrination-theory) and i do (so that makes me weary!)

so:

i have a "wait and see" policy when it comes to ME4 (i will absorb any information like a sponge and might even pre-order, if they satisfy my curiosity and PROMISE (that is needed, because they lied (i still feel cheated/betrayed by them) to all of us before ME3 came out) that nothing they tell us is a lie and if they lie, i hope they will drown in the ensuing ****-storm...maybe they will even be sued...and if that is necessary the one doing it will get a donation from me (and probably from the community at large!))

greetings LAX

[in it for the lolz]

Q. Would you trust Mac Walters and Casey Hudson with ME4?
A. No. They have already destroyed Mass Effect as it is. ME 4 would be the final insult.

Modifié par in it for the lolz, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:41 .

[Emzamination]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Casey - No. He seems to have forgotten that mass effect is about story first and foremost, then combat.

Mac - No. He needs to step back and start small. He's proven he just can't handle a AAA title like ME.

All in all, I'm very hopeful because if Me4 is a bust... I'd say some thorough performance evaluations will most likely be in order.

1. Combat is identical to ME2 just a few improvements.

2. He's written for ME since ME1.

Totally missed my point...

1. There is more combat and less pc controlled dialogue and choices than the first two games.

2. He wrote characters.That's quite a steep step down from writing the main plot.

Modifié par Emzamination, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:33 .

[Messi Kossmann]

mavqt wrote...

sammysoso wrote...

Casey is a damn good game director, ME1, 2, and 3. Along with KOTOR, that's a great record. So I'm looking forward to whatever he's doing next.

Mac is a solid writer, he goofed on the end of ME3, but everyone makes mistakes. I'll give him another shot.

Pretty mucht this.

[Baldrick67]

No.

The lies they fed the fans months before the game launched and even after the launch (you don't need MP to get the "best ending" etc) still annoy me.

I preorderd DA2 and ME3 collectors editions. Purchased al the DLC for Dragon Age and ME2 too.
I won't be doing that again for any BW games untill I get some unbiased reviews of new games.

[Estelindis]

 Do we actually know that the ending was decided by Mac and Casey?  Certainly, many people think so, but I didn't think we had an official source on this at all.  I thought the official line was that the ending was agreed upon by the whole writing team.

Personally, I would like to believe that the ending was not made and loved by the whole writing team, because that would allow me to look forward to whatever most members of the writing team are going to do next.  I mean, on the one hand, I adored most of what the writers' did in ME3, so at some level I am still looking forward to their next work.  The ending experience cannot change my appreciation for characters as wonderful as Mordin and his amazing personal story arc.  But if most/all writers really approved of the ending, it does turn my hopes down a great deal for their next offering.  It's not enough to set things up wonderfully; the lasting impression left by the conclusion has to be thematically appropriate in a way that I feel the ending of ME3 was not.

[Dubozz]

sammysoso wrote...

Casey is a damn good game director, ME1, 2, and 3. Along with KOTOR, that's a great record. So I'm looking forward to whatever he's doing next.

Mac is a solid writer, he goofed on the end of ME3, but everyone makes mistakes. I'll give him another shot.

This. I trust them and I'm sure they will not make the same mistake again. 

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Nope.

[Snypy]

Estelindis wrote...

 Do we actually know that the ending was decided by Mac and Casey?  Certainly, many people think so, but I didn't think we had an official source on this at all.  I thought the official line was that the ending was agreed upon by the whole writing team.

Personally, I would like to believe that the ending was not made and loved by the whole writing team, because that would allow me to look forward to whatever most members of the writing team are going to do next.  I mean, on the one hand, I adored most of what the writers' did in ME3, so at some level I am still looking forward to their next work.  The ending experience cannot change my appreciation for characters as wonderful as Mordin and his amazing personal story arc.  But if most/all writers really approved of the ending, it does turn my hopes down a great deal for their next offering.  It's not enough to set things up wonderfully; the lasting impression left by the conclusion has to be thematically appropriate in a way that I feel the ending of ME3 was not.

Here's what Patrick Weeks had to say about the ending:

“I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).

No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

And honestly, it kind of shows.

Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn’t need to be peer-reviewed

And again, it shows.

You can find the whole article here.

Modifié par Snypy, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:19 .

[Snypy]

Baldrick67 wrote...

No.

The lies they fed the fans months before the game launched and even after the launch (you don't need MP to get the "best ending" etc) still annoy me.

Actually, they were right. You didn't need to play MP to get the best ending, because there was no "best ending." There wasn't even a good or happy ending. All of them were equally bad.

[Ajensis]

Estelindis wrote...

I didn't think we had an official source on this at all.  I thought the official line was that the ending was agreed upon by the whole writing team.

Well, remember what Joker says about believing the official story

More seriously, though, good post. I don't personally know what to believe myself, but in the end, it doesn't bother me that much; whomever wrote it will surely be more aware of what they're doing the next time.

As for the title question: as others have pointed out, they've done a lot of good work, so if they're the leading force behind ME4, it won't scare me away. Everyone makes mistakes once in a while, I'm not going to condemn anyone for it, even if the ending was particularly painful. But I'm sure they've learnt that there's a limit to how far you can stray, no matter what kind of inspired idea you've got for a plot point.

Maybe it's time we laid off the crucifixion of certain people we believe to be responsible. There was some dodgy comments about what we could expect in the game (Rachni choice, A B C endings, multiplayer required, etc.), so I won't blame anyone for being cautious about how the next is advertised. But in regards to ME3's ending, I think it's in everyone's best interest to focus on explaining how it dissatisfied us (in a mature manner) instead of this continuous calling-out-names of the same people. I assume it only furthers the divide between them and us.

Just a thought

Modifié par Ajensis, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:43 .

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Snypy wrote...

Baldrick67 wrote...

No.

The lies they fed the fans months before the game launched and even after the launch (you don't need MP to get the "best ending" etc) still annoy me.

Actually, they were right. You didn't need to play MP to get the best ending, because there was no "best ending." There wasn't even a good or happy ending. All of them were equally bad.

lmao true

[Estelindis]

Snypy wrote...

You can find the whole article here.

On the other hand, Chris said here that it was a fake, that Patrick didn't write it.  I think that we have no way to know for sure who is telling the truth.  It certainly would explain a lot, but it also fits in with a lots of biases that many people on these forums have had against Mac.  (Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think many people felt so negatively towards Casey before the disaster of the ending.)

Ajensis wrote...
Well, remember what Joker says about believing the official story 

More seriously, though, good post. I don't personally know what to believe myself, but in the end, it doesn't bother me that much; whomever wrote it will surely be more aware of what they're doing the next time.

Joker was certainly right in that instance.  

I hope that, however many or few Bioware writers contributed to the ending, they do learn from this experience.  However, in all honesty, there have been few indicators in official statements that Bioware is willing to concede that the ending was ill-conceived.  (Yes, I know many people liked it, but in my opinion in was ill-conceived.  I think that since I am the one writing this anyone reading it can assume that every statement contains an implicit "in my opinion.")  Insisting on maintaining the "artistic integrity" of the ending has seemed to be much more important than actually learning from what happened.  The Extended Cut made some improvements, but it didn't really get to the heart of what was wrong with the ending(s).  Extra scenes with squad members and some aspects of the final slide-shows aside, most new material seemed to be focused on justifying the ending rather than fixing it.

I think the best I can do is hope that this is just bravado, that Bioware basically can't come out and say "we messed up" because they think it would put them in a really bad position but that in truth they do see the problems that many people have explained that they've found with the endings and that they really will try better in future. 

Ajensis wrote...

Maybe it's time we laid off the crucifixion of certain people we believe to be responsible. There was some dodgy comments about what we could expect in the game (Rachni choice, A B C endings, multiplayer required, etc.), so I won't blame anyone for being cautious about how the next is advertised. But in regards to ME3's ending, I think it's in everyone's best interest to focus on explaining how it dissatisfied us (in a mature manner) instead of this continuous calling-out-names of the same people. I assume it only furthers the divide between them and us.

Just a thought 

Well, personally, I've never started crucifying certain people, because, as I said earlier, I've never felt sufficiently secure in the knowledge that the ending came from Person X, Y, or Z that I could really let rip an indignant tirade focused at said people!  I do agree that it's important to remain focused on explaining our dissatisfaction with the ending in a clear, mature manner.  That said, I think many people have already done that many times, even though some others have lost the plot.  But, of course, it's important that we maintain maturity and thematic consistency to the end of our opposition to an ending that failed to do the same!

Modifié par Estelindis, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:03 .

[Foolsfolly]

I don't know.

I mean it. I just don't know. I'll see what ME4 or whatever is. If it's a prequel or a side-quel I'll pass. If it's a sequel I might pass. But if it looks good and if reviews are high I'll pick it up cheap.

They have to earn my dollars again. ME3 kinda makes future games... unneeded.

[xSTONEYx187x]

If they insist on making another "aweeeesuuummee" Gears clone, vis a vis Mass Effect 3, then no, I certainly wouldn't purchase it, if they go back to writing good stories and great characters and giving players the same control over their protagonists, ala, Mass Effect 1 & 2, then of course.

But EA wouldn't allow that. Mindless, banal action seems to be "in" at the moment.

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:33 .

[Snypy]

Estelindis wrote...

Snypy wrote...

You can find the whole article here.

On the other hand, Chris said here that it was a fake, that Patrick didn't write it.  I think that we have no way to know for sure who is telling the truth.  It certainly would explain a lot, but it also fits in with a lots of biases that many people on these forums have had against Mac.  (Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think many people felt so negatively towards Casey before the disaster of the ending.)

Neither BioWare nor Patrick Weeks have officially confirmed or denied the message despite numerous requests.

Anyway, Chris has a tendency to say "it's fake" to everything not officially released by BioWare. Do you remember his comment on the latest "leak"? "It's entirely false," he said. Yet, the DLC released the week after was on the leaked list.

Modifié par Snypy, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:42 .

[Th3 Bunman]

Hudson.Maybe.
Walters.No.If you'll going to do a job,you need to know what the requirements are and do it right.

Bioware should have come out and admitted that they or EA messed up.Be upfront about it and not keep going trying to save face.
...but what's done is done.

[xSTONEYx187x]

Arcian wrote...

xSTONEYx187x wrote...

If they insist on making another "aweeeesuuummee" Gears clone, vis a vis Mass Effect 3, then no, I certainly wouldn't purchase it, if they go back to writing good stories and great characters and giving players the same control over their protagonists, ala, Mass Effect 1 & 2, then of course.

But EA wouldn't allow that. Mindless, banal action seems to be "in" at the moment.

Mass Effect has been aping after Gears since day 1. It's only now that they are doing a fairly good job of it.

I wouldn't say that, the 2005 E3 showing of Mass Effect, you could see that it was striving to be something great and unique ... but that soon all changed. 

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:46 .

[Mr.House]

No. The only thing Mac did I liked was Wrex, and I found John to do a better job with Wrex in ME3 anyways.

As for Casey. After ME2 and 3, I'm simply not interested in anything he leads. He's pretty much the new Peter for me.

Modifié par Mr.House, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:49 .

[Estelindis]

Snypy wrote...

Neither BioWare nor Patrick Weeks have officially confirmed or denied the message despite numerous requests.

Anyway, Chris has a tendency to say "it's fake" to everything not officially released by BioWare. Do you remember his comment on the latest "leak"? "It's entirely false," he said. Yet, the DLC released the week after was on the leaked list.

These are all fair points.

[Legbiter]

Yes.