269 réponses à ce sujet

[grey_wind]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Yeah bioware could have done anything, but that doesnt mean that those other situations were better.  it would have been ****ty writing to go with a conventional victory as well.  

Honestly the only 2 endings that make sense are:
* They wipe us out, bittersweet ending
* We reason with harbinger


The crucible is dumb but a conventional victory would have been dumber. The reapers were a mystery. Solving a mystery with "shoot it" is the laziest way you can write something out. At least the crucible implies some creativity. Its not as good as it could have been, but what people are suggesting is actually WORSE.

the idea of beating something concepted as "a greater being" is a very difficult problem to solve, because by all accounts it should be unbeatable. A mouse can't defeat a couger, its simply better than the mouse in any way. The only way to resolve a situation like that is through UNCONVENTIONAL MEANS. such as: the mouse eludes the couger or the couger gets distracted.


Uniting the galaxy and then that being the extent of "the plan" is something that is reserved for the LAZIEST of ****ty Hollywood movies.

A macguffin is at least SOMETHING, instead of NOTHING. (A macguffin on its own isnt a bad plot point, infact some of the best films of all time rely on a macguffin to save the day, because you fight a greater power with another greater power)

And if they wanted a macguffin, they could have pulled one out of the Collector Base, using its technology and the Human Reaper to develop a countermeasure to the Reapers. And that would still have been a conventional victory because we won on our terms, by using our own strength to take the Reapers' technology and knowledge and turn it against them.
Instead, we're literally handed plans for an I WIN button by the Protheans, a weapon that requires us to do nothing but follow the plans of better races. And then our victory is handed to us by the Catalyst.

And I disagree: beating the Reapers with lots of bullets would have still been infinitely better than using the damn Crucible. It's consistent with the idea that we are capable of choosing our own paths, defying those who believe themselves so superior that they can dictate our destiny. It's why the Krogan fought the Genophage, why the Geth fought the Quarians, and why we fight the Reapers. And the Crucible invalidates all that by telling us we don't have the strength to make our own paths, that we have no choice in the face of destiny, that the only way to defy fate is to rely on divine intervention. That is why the Crucible (even before the Catalyst reveal) is a completely abysmal failure as a storytelling device.

EDIT:

I'm not ignoring your points, they're just so rhetorical and obviously not well thought out that I dont even need to respond. It goes without saying that its just wishful thinking and I dont need to waste my time picking each one of them apart because I've already done so time and time again on this forum. You bring nothing new to this conversation that I haven't already seen a hundred times before on this message board.

Sigh. And any chance for a reasobale discussion also goes flying out the airlock. I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time with you either, since now you're just being stubborn and have made up your mind that this isn't even a discussion worth having. I think I'd have more luck conversing with a doorknob.

Modifié par grey_wind, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:32 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

grey_wind wrote...

And if they wanted a macguffin, they could have pulled one out of the Collector Base, using its technology and the Human Reaper to develop a countermeasure to the Reapers. And that would still have been a conventional victory because we won on our terms, by using our own strength to take the Reapers' technology and knowledge and turn it against them.
Instead, we're literally handed plans for an I WIN button by the Protheans, a weapon that requires us to do nothing but follow the plans of better races. And then our victory is handed to us by the Catalyst.

And I disagree: beating the Reapers with lots of bullets would have still been infinitely better than using the damn Crucible. It's consistent with the idea that we are capable of choosing our own paths, defying those who believe themselves so superior that they can dictate our destiny. It's why the Krogan fought the Genophage, why the Geth fought the Quarians, and why we fight the Reapers. And the Crucible invalidates all that by telling us we don't have the strength to make our own paths, that we have no choice in the face of destiny, that the only way to defy fate is to rely on dvine intervention. That is why the Crucible (even before the Catalyst reveal) is a completely abysmal failure as a storytelling device.

More old posts of mine...I said that the crucible plans location should have come from the collector base, and that that was a motivation for the collector attacks on human colonies, to draw our armies away from our system so they could assault the mars archives before harbinger arrived.

"by using our own strength to take the Reapers' technology and knowledge and turn it against them."  You just contradicted yourself.  You said that we should have used collector tech, but then thats not our own strength.  At the time I didnt want to save the base.  A majority of players destroyed the base on thier first time through.  Excavating it doesnt make sense.  Also a BIG problem with what you said: it would mean the collectors were stronger than the reapers, because they would then possess the ability to DESTROY them.  It breaks the story and creates a plot hole, sorry buddy.

You're completely wrong and dont understand what the story is about or the narrative elements.  The genophage cure was about survival, the geth/quarian war was about justice.  The problem with shooting the reapers is that you're not saying that the reapers are susceptable to just being shot at.  So then why could no other species destroy a reaper?  The protheans were greater than us, and its "implied" that the collector tech is just reaperized prothean tech.  The protheans held out longer than us, but they were not able to defeat a single reaper with thier superior tech.  Only 2 corpses were ever discovered in our cycle, and they were both older than the protheans.  Your suggestion breaks the story retroactively.  It conflicts with the story of the protheans and the story of the reapers and existing species prior to us.  It creates a plot hole by simplifying and weakening the reapers.  You're retconning too much by making them "normally killable".  You might as well that shepard should take out all the reapers with his N7 rifle.  This is a major problem with your idea, and its why Bioware didnt go that route.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

grey_wind wrote...
Sigh. And any chance for a reasobale discussion also goes flying out the airlock. I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time with you either, since now you're just being stubborn and have made up your mind that this isn't even a discussion worth having. I think I'd have more luck conversing with a doorknob.

well!!  *replying*

• The fact that they needed to divide and conquer coupled with Sovereign's desperation to activate the Citadel trap implies they don't have the strength to take on a united galaxy.

  -  No, you're reading too much into it.  It was not desperate.  We were desperate, soverign was not.  Soverign says that he sees us as nothing and that our actions are pointless.  This is then directly followed with Soverign bullrushing the citadel and starting opening the relays.  This says that Soverign doesnt care what we do, because we cant effect it.  Soverign was not afraid of us, he just didnt see us as a threat.  you're wrong and I already replied to this, you just didnt acknowledge my reply.

• Biological weapons like the Seeker Swarms and the Plague on Omega are enough to make any enemy invincible, but unlike past cycles we've had the time and resources to produce counter-measures to them.

- how do you know that?  The protheans fought for 500 years.  They didnt have time to prepare, but we only had 2 years to prepare for the reapers.  The protheans fought them for 250x that, which means they had 250x as many opportunities to develop countermeasures.  Not to mention that the collectors ARE the protheans infused with reaper tech.

• The implication that Reapers are only made from species with very rare amounts of genetic diversity/malleability hints that they're not very many in number. To back this up, EDI's cut dialogue in ME2 even suggested that the entire population of Earth could only make ONE new Reaper.

- You're making a big assumption there.  Why would our cycle having one choice reaper slurry species mean that cycles past where  passed up for reapers?  You're using a big fat probability that conflicts with the ending shot of Mass Effect 2.  (Where we clearly see thousands of reapers light up in dark space)

• The fact thatEDI actually had anti-Reaper algorithms and we were able to reverse-engineer Reaper tech like the Thanix Cannon implies they're not as advanced as they initially appear, and are probably technologically stagnant.

- Why does it imply that?  We reverse manufactured soverign's laser canon.  We couldn't duplicate their shielding technology, which is what makes them unstoppable.

• So it's not too hard to imagine why a lot of fans believed we actually had a fighting chance against the Reapers without a contrived superweapon.

- Oh its easy to believe that alot of fans would believe that.  Alot of fans dont think things through and like to jump on bandwagons after watching a youtube video where someone says "because this inaccessable 3d model is here that means the ending is indoctirnation"


As I said, you're making ALOT of assumptions that are contradicted within the same game they're from, and the previous game.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:00 .

[moater boat]

Eterna5 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Using simple math it's possible to Roughly tell how many Capital ships there are. The Leviathans began the Cycle 1 billion years ago. At the end of Each cycle a Reaper capital ship is made. Each cycle lasts around fifty thousand years.

Therefore if my math is correct there are 20000 Reaper Capital ships. This is not including Destroyers. You cannot win against those numbers especially when their technology surpasses yours.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that this calculation is correct. You are making far too many assumptions with far too little data. What we DO know is that it took a couple centuries for the Reapers to beat the Protheans. And that was when they had control of the citadel. With that in mind there is no logical reason to assume that the Reaper fleet numbers in the tens of thousands of capital ships.

Except Javik mentions how long it took his cycle to fall. I'm using the nmbers he and the Leviathan dlc provides. Not only that, but the Prothean cycle lasted far longer than other cycles supposedly, so there could even be more.

I'm using information in game  to give a rough estimation on Capital ship numbers, it's not perfect, but being that the harvest has been going on for 1 billion years their numbers are around that, you're denial is irrelevant. 

You' re taking speculation and assumption and trying to pass it off as fact. You can't do that. See, it is a FACT to say that there are at least 300 reaper capital ships because someone actually counted that many in the final battle, It is also a fact that the Reapers, as a race, are a billion years old, here are things that are NOT facts

1. Every cycle lasts 50,000 years
2. A capital ship is produced every cycle
3. There has not been any significant Reaper attrition
4. All the Reapers that have been produced are still part of the main Reaper group

We know almost nothing about the history of the Reapers. To try and extrapolate a number based on our very limited knowledge is both foolish and dishonest.

[moater boat]

arial wrote...

o0kay,



Gameplay wise: Reapers never travel alone (as you see when they notice you while planet scanning), yet before you hit earth, they have EVERY system completely controlled, and still have such a large pressence on earth. count every system ever mentioned in ANY ME Media, then count how many reapers are viewable in the cinimatic at the beginning of Priority earth, believe they have an army in the tens of thousnads isn`t hard when you think of it this way.

Lore wise: Like the Leviathans said, it all started roughly 1 billion years ago, and it is stated in previous ME games the Reapers hit ever 50k years. now even if every cycle lasted, lets be generous here, 300 years after the Reapers hit, the Reapers would still be well over 10k

Did we play the same game? Did you not notice that Thessia was fairly untouched for the first half or so, that Sur'Kesh was pretty much untouched, and that Rannoch and Tuchanka, fairly important planets no matter how you want to analyze it, were each only assigned a single destroyer? If the Reapers had 20,000 capital ships, you would think that at least a couple would have been assigned to Tuchanka, since the Krogan were obviously a threat to the Reapers.

Just use your head, if there were 20,000 capital ships that would be enough to put a sizable fleet on each major planet, and a single capital ship leading a small fleet of destroyers on any colony of significant size. Furthermore, as a said earlier, 20,000 capital ships wouldn't need hundreds of years to wipe out the protheans. You are using speculation and extrapolation, I am using facts from the game and sound logic. Just accept that an estimate of 20,000 Reapers doesn't make sense in terms of what we have seen from their strategy.

[Sauron001]

It is stated though that each cycle one species is harvested.... Only one species gets the "privelege" of becoming a captial ship and the rest are turned into destroyers. The purpose of the protoreapers is basically what lives inside of the reaper. The proto is formed in the image of the harvested species and then the reaper shell is built around it.

Well their largest force is at Earth and watching the Invasion video it would appear their are far more than just 300, what about the number in the Americas, Europe, Africa, and Asia that would be present on the ground?

[moater boat]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...



You're forgetting the most important thing:

The reapers fought for 500 years, they didn't lose a single ship.  the protheans lost EVERYTHING.

This isn't numbers, this is obvious ****.  They attained a flawless victory.

You're just not getting it. I don't care that they didn't lose any capital ships, that is irrelevant to the argument. The issue is the TIME!  It took them HUNDREDS OF YEARS! There is no way wiping out the Protheans would have taken that long if the Reapers had 20,000 capital ships and complete access to all the population data from the citadel.

[Ratimir]

moater boat wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Using simple math it's possible to Roughly tell how many Capital ships there are. The Leviathans began the Cycle 1 billion years ago. At the end of Each cycle a Reaper capital ship is made. Each cycle lasts around fifty thousand years.

Therefore if my math is correct there are 20000 Reaper Capital ships. This is not including Destroyers. You cannot win against those numbers especially when their technology surpasses yours.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that this calculation is correct. You are making far too many assumptions with far too little data. What we DO know is that it took a couple centuries for the Reapers to beat the Protheans. And that was when they had control of the citadel. With that in mind there is no logical reason to assume that the Reaper fleet numbers in the tens of thousands of capital ships.

Except Javik mentions how long it took his cycle to fall. I'm using the nmbers he and the Leviathan dlc provides. Not only that, but the Prothean cycle lasted far longer than other cycles supposedly, so there could even be more.

I'm using information in game  to give a rough estimation on Capital ship numbers, it's not perfect, but being that the harvest has been going on for 1 billion years their numbers are around that, you're denial is irrelevant. 

You' re taking speculation and assumption and trying to pass it off as fact. You can't do that. See, it is a FACT to say that there are at least 300 reaper capital ships because someone actually counted that many in the final battle, It is also a fact that the Reapers, as a race, are a billion years old, here are things that are NOT facts

1. Every cycle lasts 50,000 years
2. A capital ship is produced every cycle
3. There has not been any significant Reaper attrition
4. All the Reapers that have been produced are still part of the main Reaper group

We know almost nothing about the history of the Reapers. To try and extrapolate a number based on our very limited knowledge is both foolish and dishonest.

Actually, Mass Effect 3's intro specifically says "every 50,000 years". Your other points are spot on.

[Peranor]

moater boat wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...



You're forgetting the most important thing:

The reapers fought for 500 years, they didn't lose a single ship.  the protheans lost EVERYTHING.

This isn't numbers, this is obvious ****.  They attained a flawless victory.

You're just not getting it. I don't care that they didn't lose any capital ships, that is irrelevant to the argument. The issue is the TIME!  It took them HUNDREDS OF YEARS! There is no way wiping out the Protheans would have taken that long if the Reapers had 20,000 capital ships and complete access to all the population data from the citadel.

True. If they had that many capital ships they would just have steamrolled the Protheans.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

moater boat wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...



You're forgetting the most important thing:

The reapers fought for 500 years, they didn't lose a single ship.  the protheans lost EVERYTHING.

This isn't numbers, this is obvious ****.  They attained a flawless victory.

You're just not getting it. I don't care that they didn't lose any capital ships, that is irrelevant to the argument. The issue is the TIME!  It took them HUNDREDS OF YEARS! There is no way wiping out the Protheans would have taken that long if the Reapers had 20,000 capital ships and complete access to all the population data from the citadel.

"But the genocide of a species is a long, slow process. Years passed. Decades. Centuries. The Reapers were persistant."  Vigil from Mass Effect 1

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 16 octobre 2012 - 08:39 .

[ZajoE38]

It is more than obvious that conventional victory is not possible. That's why deus ex machina had to come in place. Reapers are meant to be too powerful. It's the plot of ME. The fight against impossible. I like it that way. It's like 10 kids with BB guns against 100 ironmen Sovereign was only able to be destroyed because of "space magic" resurrecting his agent exhausted him so much that his shield went down. That's why I controlled them, I love their power

[azerSheppard]

You want to know the REAL reason? Well do you?

This is what you get when 50 some people "write" for a trilogy. You get **** like the last ME book where the new author thinks he is too great to even know the foundation of the IP. And also shows why the reapers turned into such a useless bunch.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

moater boat wrote...

arial wrote...

o0kay,



Gameplay wise: Reapers never travel alone (as you see when they notice you while planet scanning), yet before you hit earth, they have EVERY system completely controlled, and still have such a large pressence on earth. count every system ever mentioned in ANY ME Media, then count how many reapers are viewable in the cinimatic at the beginning of Priority earth, believe they have an army in the tens of thousnads isn`t hard when you think of it this way.

Lore wise: Like the Leviathans said, it all started roughly 1 billion years ago, and it is stated in previous ME games the Reapers hit ever 50k years. now even if every cycle lasted, lets be generous here, 300 years after the Reapers hit, the Reapers would still be well over 10k

Did we play the same game? Did you not notice that Thessia was fairly untouched for the first half or so, that Sur'Kesh was pretty much untouched, and that Rannoch and Tuchanka, fairly important planets no matter how you want to analyze it, were each only assigned a single destroyer? If the Reapers had 20,000 capital ships, you would think that at least a couple would have been assigned to Tuchanka, since the Krogan were obviously a threat to the Reapers.

Just use your head, if there were 20,000 capital ships that would be enough to put a sizable fleet on each major planet, and a single capital ship leading a small fleet of destroyers on any colony of significant size. Furthermore, as a said earlier, 20,000 capital ships wouldn't need hundreds of years to wipe out the protheans. You are using speculation and extrapolation, I am using facts from the game and sound logic. Just accept that an estimate of 20,000 Reapers doesn't make sense in terms of what we have seen from their strategy.

I wasnt talking about fleet size?  I was talking about the fact that the reapers are perfect at winning a war against the organic species of the galaxy.

what the **** are you on about?

20,000 capital ships?  Well the galaxy is a huge place.  like, REALLY BIG.  From me3 cinematics I get the impression that most reapers are just "forming blockades" and "dropping reaperized organics" on planets.  They're off doing things to other planets and systems other than....tuchunka and rannoch.

Why would the reapers see the krogan as a threat?  They dont even have a fleet.  They sent a destroyer to destroy the tower thing that nobody ever noticed before.  They didnt send it to destroy the species.  At this point in the story the reapers are swarming the galaxy, palaven, and earth.  (I wonder how the batarian homeworld is doing?)  The destroyer on rannoch is just indoctrinating the geth, they havent begun an actual attack on the quarians.  When they start on thessia they just roll in and stomp em.

Theres also the entire galaxy.  You get reaper attacked in each system you visit (for the most part) I know that they dont render 20,000 ships in a clump, but we're told the reapers started harvesting every 50,000 years for EFFICIENCY.  it is EFFICIENT in producing reapers by coming every 50,000 years.

[Kel Riever]

OP, the real reason is because bad writing?

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

[Samtheman63]

Samtheman63 wrote...

reapers are trying to harvest us and our technology, not annihilate everything

they have a beam that one shots anything, if we ever began to even get close to winning, they would destroy us, easily

you're right!

[CaIIisto]

Samtheman63 wrote...
they have a beam that one shots anything

Well, except when the target's armed with plot armour..... <cough> Shep/Citadel beam <cough>

[Argolas]

Just skimmed through the last few pages. People, I estimate the number of reaper capital ships around 200-250, more likely even less. They probably often failed in creating a capital ship and they had losses as well. Remember, if any cycle would destroy even one single capital ship, their numbers would decrease instead of increase.

Just watch the Spacebattles. Here I have some screens, sorry for the bad quality, but I did not find any appropriate pictures, so I took screenshots on Youtube. I did not bother cutting them out well, either.





The Reaper fleet for the final battle on Earth. I did not count them exactly, but I am quite shure these are less than 100.



The Reaper fleet on Palavan. They battle the Turians. In order to make the attack on Palavan more powerful, the reapers sent only light forces to the Turian fuel supply so the Turians could defend them. And there are SIX capital ships altogether in the main battle (those things on the left are Turian gunships, in case you wonder).


But there are not only pictures. Anderson explains as well that when SEVERAL souvereign-class ships left the spacebattle, there was an OPENING.

You see my point? Even 100 capital ships would be enough to defeat the allied fleet easily because as I mentioned earlier, we only have the firepower to equal at best 25. Regarding the Anderson quote and the pictures, it seems totally out of place to assume there are 20,000 capital ships. 250 capital ships and many more destroyers and light forces still mean that there is not the slightest chance for our fleet, and this number is more than twice of those we see because I assume not all reapers will be at the main battle.

Modifié par Argolas, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:25 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

You do know how distance in space works right? You know that the distance between the camera and the planet is thus that reaper ships would realistically be so obscured by perspective as to not be visible? Space is a BIG PLACE. reaper capital ships are 2 km long. Earth is 12,756.32 km in diameter, and it is 384,399 km from the moon on average. Take that into account.

[MystEU]

Clearly it's not possible in the scope of this fictional universe, because it wasn't possible in the game. Is anybody ever going to get over this?

[The Spamming Troll]

Argolas wrote...

Just skimmed through the last few pages. People, I estimate the number of reaper capital ships around 200-250, more likely even less. They probably often failed in creating a capital ship and they had losses as well. Remember, if any cycle would destroy even one single capital ship, their numbers would decrease instead of increase.

Just watch the Spacebattles. Here I have some screens, sorry for the bad quality, but I did not find any appropriate pictures, so I took screenshots on Youtube. I did not bother cutting them out well, either.





The Reaper fleet for the final battle on Earth. I did not count them exactly, but I am quite shure these are less than 100.



The Reaper fleet on Palavan. They battle the Turians. In order to make the attack on Palavan more powerful, the reapers sent only light forces to the Turian fuel supply so the Turians could defend them. And there are SIX capital ships altogether in the main battle (those things on the left are Turian gunships, in case you wonder).


But there are not only pictures. Anderson explains as well that when SEVERAL souvereign-class ships left the spacebattle, there was an OPENING.

You see my point? Even 100 capital ships would be enough to defeat the allied fleet easily because as I mentioned earlier, we only have the firepower to equal at best 25. Regarding the Anderson quote and the pictures, it seems totally out of place to assume there are 20,000 capital ships. 250 capital ships and many more destroyers and light forces still mean that there is not the slightest chance for our fleet, and this number is more than twice of those we see because I assume not all reapers will be at the main battle.

or the game could have been written differently. were the galaxy was preparing for the arrival of the reapers, like ME2 set it up for. like making thanix canons and NOT relying on a bazaro device no one knows anything about.

ofcorse its easy to say "we can never beat the reapers, EVAR." but its astronomically better the say "i beat the ****in reapers!"

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:38 .

[Argolas]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You do know how distance in space works right? You know that the distance between the camera and the planet is thus that reaper ships would realistically be so obscured by perspective as to not be visible? Space is a BIG PLACE. reaper capital ships are 2 km long. Earth is 12,756.32 km in diameter, and it is 384,399 km from the moon on average. Take that into account.

I never claimed these were all reapers, or I would have to say there are only around 100 capital ships. But if you think there are so many, how come that the absence of several souvereign-class reaper means an opening?

If there are about 20,000 capital ships, you can assume that there are at least 1000 on Earth (which is still ridiculously few in that case). Several is certainly less than 10.

1000-10= 990

That´s not an opening. That´s not a chance to break through for Hackett. In fact, that means nothing at all.

[Argolas]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

or the game could have been written differently. were the galaxy was preparing for the arrival of the reapers, like ME2 set it up for. like making thanix canons and NOT relying on a bazaro device no one knows anything about.

ofcorse its easy to say "we can never beat the reapers, EVAR." but its astronomically better the say "i beat the ****in reapers!"

Yes, it could have been written differently, but the point of my post was rather to proof that these estimates of 20,000 capital ships are completely out of place.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

or the game could have been written differently. were the galaxy was preparing for the arrival of the reapers, like ME2 set it up for. like making thanix canons and NOT relying on a bazaro device no one knows anything about.

ofcorse its easy to say "we can never beat the reapers, EVAR." but its astronomically better the say "i beat the ****in reapers!"

Why do you assume that Soverign's gun is strong enough to kill him?  We dont understand reaper KINECTIC BARRIERS, which are what make them impervious to our WEAPONS.  In ME2 if you've got Thanix cannons installed on the normandy joker still isnt able to do anything about the dead reaper's shields coming back on.  The thanix cannons make your guns strong enough to destroy a COLLECTOR SHIP, but not a REAPER.

SHIELDS.  what make the reapers impervious are their SHIELDS.  They prevent weapons fire from hitting the ship itself.  didnt you ever watch star trek?

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Argolas wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You do know how distance in space works right? You know that the distance between the camera and the planet is thus that reaper ships would realistically be so obscured by perspective as to not be visible? Space is a BIG PLACE. reaper capital ships are 2 km long. Earth is 12,756.32 km in diameter, and it is 384,399 km from the moon on average. Take that into account.

I never claimed these were all reapers, or I would have to say there are only around 100 capital ships. But if you think there are so many, how come that the absence of several souvereign-class reaper means an opening?

If there are about 20,000 capital ships, you can assume that there are at least 1000 on Earth (which is still ridiculously few in that case). Several is certainly less than 10.

1000-10= 990

That´s not an opening. That´s not a chance to break through for Hackett. In fact, that means nothing at all.

Do you know how clusters work?  If you have 1000 things, and you draw them to a point, that thins out the ratio of things in ONE SPOT, creating an opening.
Its completely straightforward what it meant.

[Argolas]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You do know how distance in space works right? You know that the distance between the camera and the planet is thus that reaper ships would realistically be so obscured by perspective as to not be visible? Space is a BIG PLACE. reaper capital ships are 2 km long. Earth is 12,756.32 km in diameter, and it is 384,399 km from the moon on average. Take that into account.

I never claimed these were all reapers, or I would have to say there are only around 100 capital ships. But if you think there are so many, how come that the absence of several souvereign-class reaper means an opening?

If there are about 20,000 capital ships, you can assume that there are at least 1000 on Earth (which is still ridiculously few in that case). Several is certainly less than 10.

1000-10= 990

That´s not an opening. That´s not a chance to break through for Hackett. In fact, that means nothing at all.

Do you know how clusters work?  If you have 1000 things, and you draw them to a point, that thins out the ratio of things in ONE SPOT, creating an opening.
Its completely straightforward what it meant.

First you assume Reapers where we can´t see any, then you talk as if the Reapers were not even able to close an opening. And then there are like 3 or 4 reapers at best are in visual range of the crucible while 996 (or rather much more, I do not believe only 1,000 of 20,000 would come) are watching...

I do not see anything backing your assumptions. Just in order to answer your first argument about not seeing reapers: They are all clearly in about one line. If you were correct, we should see some smaller points near earth representing reapers. But they all have about the same size and thus the distance is about the same.