269 réponses à ce sujet

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Argolas wrote...


I do not see anything backing your assumptions. Just in order to answer your first argument about not seeing reapers: They are all clearly in about one line. If you were correct, we should see some smaller points near earth representing reapers. But they all have about the same size and thus the distance is about the same.

or thats the FRONT line.
The distance is so much larger by magnitudes that even a 2km object would not be visible from a distance of 1000km or so.  Even if bioware decided to put a reaper that far away, at a distance to where it would still be barely visible, its color would blend right in with the blues and reds of a war-torn earth.  You're also only using one shot as reference.  There are clearly reapers other than those six because the battle scenes account for far more than that.  With how far away objects are in space, its nearly impossible to see the entire fleet with your eyes.  A character would have to rely on SCANNERS.

Argolas wrote...
First you assume Reapers where we can´t see any, then you talk as if the
Reapers were not even able to close an opening. And then there are like
3 or 4 reapers at best are in visual range of the crucible while 996
(or rather much more, I do not believe only 1,000 of 20,000 would
come) are watching...

You arent looking at it from the actual size and scope of the battle field.  You cant see them, but they're there.  They're just SO far away that you wouldnt be able to see them.  The moon is 3476 km long and at a distance of 384,385 km its about the size of your thumbnail.  The rate at which objects shrink from your vision is exponential as the distance increases.  Note: You cannot see Harbinger, the destroyers, or occulus.  The latter 2 because of thier size.  Harbinger isnt visible because of his distance from the front line reapers.

The opening makes sense because the distance between reapers is so great due to how battles in outer space would work that even a handful of reapers moving a couple hundred kilometers to engage the sword fleets would be enough of a gap for a length of time to allow for hammer fleets to slip in.

The battles between the larger ships all take place over a computer.  targeting is done based on scanners, evasive tactis would have to take place minutes in advance of calculated trajectories, in actuality what does transpire is a little more forgiving of actual distance and scope of a space battle.  In reality the initial conflict of "get hammer past the reaper blockade" would last hours or days.


Theres also this: Its a planet, blocking one side of a planet does nothing because its a giant ball.  The reapers would have to be placed all along the globe to prevent the ships from just coming in above the atlantic ocean or japan and then flying through the atmosphere to london.  The earth has a circumference of 40,075.16 km at the equator, and the surface area is 510 million square kilometers.  This area increases exponentially the further from the planet you travel.  Even considering the sword fleet is attacking from one direction, this is still upwards of billions of kilometers of space that make up the "battle zone".  This is a massive distance for the reapers to cover which you cant do with 6 capital on one side.   Even the estimate of 20,000 reaper ships isnt enough to blockade the planet in 3-dimensional space.  The idea that the reapers could blockade ANYTHING with 6 or even 300 ships is LAUGHABLE, and these guys are conducting war on at least 3 OTHER major planets in the galaxy at this point (if the extended cut is to be believed)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 16 octobre 2012 - 08:24 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Here I have arranged 300 reapers at 2 km long against a spherical object with a radius of 6,378.1 km

They are aranged at 20km distances from eachother along a 2 dimensional plane.  This is 600 x 200 km. 

they are impossible to see and barely cover enough land to blockade italy at earth's atmosphere.

[Argolas]

You already started to contradict yourself...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Argolas wrote...


I do not see anything backing your assumptions. Just in order to answer your first argument about not seeing reapers: They are all clearly in about one line. If you were correct, we should see some smaller points near earth representing reapers. But they all have about the same size and thus the distance is about the same.

or thats the FRONT line.

Wait, if there is more than this front line, how come there is an opening when several Reapers leave? Also, the crucible is not exactly the fastest "ship" out there. Its way to the opening was much farer than the way of the Reaper forces that we can´t see but you assume they are there.

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The distance is so much larger by magnitudes that even a 2km object would not be visible from a distance of 1000km or so.  Even if bioware decided to put a reaper that far away, at a distance to where it would still be barely visible, its color would blend right in with the blues and reds of a war-torn earth.

Just that. Either this is only the front line, which means there can´t be an opening when only several reapers leave, or there is an opening which means that there are no other reapers behind them. Both can´t be true.

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You're also only using one shot as reference.  There are clearly reapers other than those six because the battle scenes account for far more than that.  With how far away objects are in space, its nearly impossible to see the entire fleet with your eyes.  A character would have to rely on SCANNERS.

Turians vs Reapers over Palaven
There just aren´t any more Reapers in this scene, although they face the Turian fleet directly. The Turians also fire only on the Reapers we see, save the battle gunship vs. occolus. I think there is also 1 or 2 reapers on the moon, and some will be on palaven itself, but they should not sum up to more than 20-30 because they will mainly focus on the military as long as it resists.
It does not make sense. If there are thousands of capital ships, why not just send 100 of them against the most powerful enemy military in the galaxy? Why even give them a chance to put up a fight?
Because THERE AREN´T THAT MANY CAPITAL SHIPS. In order to keep the Control over earth and other invaded Systems, they need to spread their forces. Otherwise there would never be any need for destroyers and such.

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Argolas wrote...
First you assume Reapers where we can´t see any, then you talk as if the
Reapers were not even able to close an opening. And then there are like
3 or 4 reapers at best are in visual range of the crucible while 996
(or rather much more, I do not believe only 1,000 of 20,000 would
come) are watching...

You arent looking at it from the actual size and scope of the battle field.  You cant see them, but they're there.  They're just SO far away that you wouldnt be able to see them.  The moon is 3476 km long and at a distance of 384,385 km its about the size of your thumbnail.  The rate at which objects shrink from your vision is exponential as the distance increases.  Note: You cannot see Harbinger, the destroyers, or occulus.  The latter 2 because of thier size.  Harbinger isnt visible because of his distance from the front line reapers.

We can´t see harbinger because it looks almost exactly like every other souvereign-class reaper in ME3, save the eyes. We can´t see destroyers because there are non here. We can´t see any occulus because they are launched AFTER the battle began, and additionaly too small, as you say. But we should see the reapers you mention when we see close combat with the ones that are already there. We don´t.



No reapers in the background.

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The opening makes sense because the distance between reapers is so great due to how battles in outer space would work that even a handful of reapers moving a couple hundred kilometers to engage the sword fleets would be enough of a gap for a length of time to allow for hammer fleets to slip in.

Once again, either there are more reapers in the background (which would be much closer than shield fleet and much faster than the crucible) or there is an opening.

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The battles between the larger ships all take place over a computer.  targeting is done based on scanners, evasive tactis would have to take place minutes in advance of calculated trajectories, in actuality what does transpire is a little more forgiving of actual distance and scope of a space battle.  In reality the initial conflict of "get hammer past the reaper blockade" would last hours or days.

I don´t know. Reapers seem to be quite agile (note how fast Harbinger is down at the beam while he was just fighting). As for crucible and shield fleet, this is exactly what I mean. There is no way they could "slip through" if the reapers had the ships to fill up the opening.

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Theres also this: Its a planet, blocking one side of a planet does nothing because its a giant ball.  The reapers would have to be placed all along the globe to prevent the ships from just coming in above the atlantic ocean or japan and then flying through the atmosphere to london.  The earth has a circumference of 40,075.16 km at the equator, and the surface area is 510 million square kilometers.  This area increases exponentially the further from the planet you travel.  Even considering the sword fleet is attacking from one direction, this is still upwards of billions of kilometers of space that make up the "battle zone".  This is a massive distance for the reapers to cover which you cant do with 6 capital on one side.   Even the estimate of 20,000 reaper ships isnt enough to blockade the planet in 3-dimensional space.  The idea that the reapers could blockade ANYTHING with 6 or even 300 ships is LAUGHABLE, and these guys are conducting war on at least 3 OTHER major planets in the galaxy at this point (if the extended cut is to be believed)

The side of earth that is directed towards the relay is quite efficiantly blocked by those less than 100 reapers we see in the sequence. Both Sword and Shield fleets are not able to manouver around them, look at this giant mass of warships, the only tactic they can use is forming a block and uniting all their firepower. If they tried to get past those 100 reapers, they would be ripped apart. Remember, it´s about 86 dreadnoughts only... Also, some ways must have been open because Hammer shuttles got through unharmed, they were only taken down by AA guns and groundfire after they entered the atmosphere. This confirms that the reapers were not able to form a solid block, only this 100 souvereign-class ships strong frontline that can not be defeated but avoided. The other 150 reapers of my estimation are most likely spread on earth and other systems- remember there are no fleets left exept this. They all abandoned their planets by then and joined the earth mission. 10 invincible souvereign-class reapers on every major homeworld, supported by Destroyers and ground troops, are more than enough to maintain control.

Modifié par Argolas, 16 octobre 2012 - 09:57 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

You're ignoring what I'm saying. Just because there are 6 clearly visible reapers in one shot doesnt mean that there arent thousands between the camera and the planet. You dont understand how SIGNIFICANT the distance is or how large the falloff of those ships is. I made an image depicting how easily a 2km ship vanishes against a planet because its scope is that large. Harbinger traveling from upper atmosphere to the surface is still an INSIGNIFICANT distance. You need to understand that hundreds of thousands of kilometers is SO HUGE.

Without scanning technology it would be near impossible to see another ship out in space. You can't use visual reference in this case because it is unreliable. The distance is just TOO MASSIVE.

The logistics of the final battle are flimsy but then so are almost all space battles in the history of film. In order for the reapers to maintain their presence they need FAR more than 20,000 ships for just a SINGLE planet.

The irony is that the distance between reaper ships is SO significant that shepard didnt even need the fleet to land at the beam. his ship doesnt show up on scanners, and its small enough that it could pass between two reaper ships and be impossible to spot. The logistics of the situation make for a far less interesting situation than what would realistically be represented.


20,000 reapers wouldnt be able to lock down a planet, you'd need upwards of the ten billions to do that.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Greylycantrope wrote...

They say a lot of things, not all of them true.

This.

The OP has some truth, though. Bioware decided in ME3 that the Reapers are unstoppable and we need a super weapon DEM to defeat them.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Argolas wrote...




No reapers in the background.

There could be millions of reapers back there along the surface of the atmosphere and you wouldnt be able to see them because the distance is TOO MASSIVE.  it would have to be a quarter the size of the moon to be visibly distinct.  You cant use visual reference because far away objects are invisible to the naked eye when you're talking thousands of kilometers.  Its impossible TO SEE THEM.


I brought up Harbinger and destroyers in reference to the earth battle.  In the low EMS ending you clearly see destroyers mounting and ripping turian ships apart.

Harbinger has a distinct silhouette from other reapers created by removing the middle tendril.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

They say a lot of things, not all of them true.

This.

The OP has some truth, though. Bioware decided in ME3 that the Reapers are unstoppable and we need a super weapon DEM to defeat them.

They decided this in ME1 when soverign's shields were able to repel sustained fire from an entire alliance fleet.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 16 octobre 2012 - 10:22 .

[Argolas]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You're ignoring what I'm saying. Just because there are 6 clearly visible reapers in one shot doesnt mean that there arent thousands between the camera and the planet. You dont understand how SIGNIFICANT the distance is or how large the falloff of those ships is. I made an image depicting how easily a 2km ship vanishes against a planet because its scope is that large. Harbinger traveling from upper atmosphere to the surface is still an INSIGNIFICANT distance. You need to understand that hundreds of thousands of kilometers is SO HUGE.

Without scanning technology it would be near impossible to see another ship out in space. You can't use visual reference in this case because it is unreliable. The distance is just TOO MASSIVE.

The logistics of the final battle are flimsy but then so are almost all space battles in the history of film. In order for the reapers to maintain their presence they need FAR more than 20,000 ships for just a SINGLE planet.

The irony is that the distance between reaper ships is SO significant that shepard didnt even need the fleet to land at the beam. his ship doesnt show up on scanners, and its small enough that it could pass between two reaper ships and be impossible to spot. The logistics of the situation make for a far less interesting situation than what would realistically be represented.


20,000 reapers wouldnt be able to lock down a planet, you'd need upwards of the ten billions to do that.

Then we have nothing more to discuss. All of your arguments boil down to "There are sooo many more, you just don´t see them, no matter from what angle".

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Argolas wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You're ignoring what I'm saying. Just because there are 6 clearly visible reapers in one shot doesnt mean that there arent thousands between the camera and the planet. You dont understand how SIGNIFICANT the distance is or how large the falloff of those ships is. I made an image depicting how easily a 2km ship vanishes against a planet because its scope is that large. Harbinger traveling from upper atmosphere to the surface is still an INSIGNIFICANT distance. You need to understand that hundreds of thousands of kilometers is SO HUGE.

Without scanning technology it would be near impossible to see another ship out in space. You can't use visual reference in this case because it is unreliable. The distance is just TOO MASSIVE.

The logistics of the final battle are flimsy but then so are almost all space battles in the history of film. In order for the reapers to maintain their presence they need FAR more than 20,000 ships for just a SINGLE planet.

The irony is that the distance between reaper ships is SO significant that shepard didnt even need the fleet to land at the beam. his ship doesnt show up on scanners, and its small enough that it could pass between two reaper ships and be impossible to spot. The logistics of the situation make for a far less interesting situation than what would realistically be represented.


20,000 reapers wouldnt be able to lock down a planet, you'd need upwards of the ten billions to do that.

Then we have nothing more to discuss. All of your arguments boil down to "There are sooo many more, you just don´t see them, no matter from what angle".

Thats because thats how objects work in 3d space.  thats reality.

its not ANGLE that prevents you from seeing them, its DISTANCE.  you could look at something 10,000 km away from ANY angle you want and it wouldnt make it show up.  you'd have to be CLOSER to it or you CANT see it.  IF AN OBJECT IS FAR ENOUGH AWAY IT BECOMES INVISIBLE TO THE NAKED EYE 
YOU CANNOT SEE IT BECAUSE THE LIGHT DOES NOT REACH YOU.

why
is
this
so
hard
to
understand

Do you know how eyes work?  Do you not understand the fundamental principles of "vision"



On the left I have zoomed in so you can see 300 reapers against a planet.  They are tiny specs.  I created a to-scale recreation of the planet earth versus the size of a single reaper.  on the right i have zoomed out to a conventional distance used in Mass Effect Cinematics.  It is far enough away to see the planet.  The reapers are now impossible to see with the naked eye despite the camera pointing RIGHT AT THEM.

You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.
You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.
You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.
You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.
You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.

You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.

You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.

You are unable to see them because they are too far away to be visible.

THIS IS SIMPLE.  REALITY WORKS A SPECIFIC WAY.  YOU CANT SEE OBJECTS THAT ARE TOO FAR AWAY BECAUSE THEY ARE OBSCURED BY DISTANCE.  
THE FURTHER AWAY SOMETHING IS THE LARGER IT HAS TO BE FOR THE LIGHT TO REACH YOU.

JESUS
CHRIST

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 16 octobre 2012 - 10:31 .

[moater boat]

One more thing that proves that the Reaper did not have 20,000 capital ships (or some other huge number) and that is the fact that sword fleet managed to protect shield fleet and the crucible long enough for it to dock with the citadel. If there really were that many reapers sword fleet would have been destroyed outright, no shuttles would have made it too Earth, and the crucible wouldn't have made it anywhere close to the citadel. Some of you people need to stop using math and start using common sense.

[The Spamming Troll]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

or the game could have been written differently. were the galaxy was preparing for the arrival of the reapers, like ME2 set it up for. like making thanix canons and NOT relying on a bazaro device no one knows anything about.

ofcorse its easy to say "we can never beat the reapers, EVAR." but its astronomically better the say "i beat the ****in reapers!"

Why do you assume that Soverign's gun is strong enough to kill him?  We dont understand reaper KINECTIC BARRIERS, which are what make them impervious to our WEAPONS.  In ME2 if you've got Thanix cannons installed on the normandy joker still isnt able to do anything about the dead reaper's shields coming back on.  The thanix cannons make your guns strong enough to destroy a COLLECTOR SHIP, but not a REAPER.

SHIELDS.  what make the reapers impervious are their SHIELDS.  They prevent weapons fire from hitting the ship itself.  didnt you ever watch star trek?

yup, reapers shields are the reason starchild was created. the only time weve ever beaten a reaper is when their shields are down. im sortof getting more and more comfortable with the thought of the crucible just being an anti shields device so we could beat the reapers conventionally.

what if the bomb was slow moving enough that it wouldnt recochet off the shielding? are they like kinetic shields that cant stop knifes becasue theym ove to slow?

honestly, i dont even care to know the "answer" to that. its all a bunch of BS stacked on top of BS anyways.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

[quote]Argolas wrote...

You already started to contradict yourself...

[quote]Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

[quote]Argolas wrote...


I do not see anything backing your assumptions. Just in order to answer your first argument about not seeing reapers: They are all clearly in about one line. If you were correct, we should see some smaller points near earth representing reapers. But they all have about the same size and thus the distance is about the same.
[/quote]
or thats the FRONT line.[/quote]

Wait, if there is more than this front line, how come there is an opening when several Reapers leave? Also, the crucible is not exactly the fastest "ship" out there. Its way to the opening was much farer than the way of the Reaper forces that we can´t see but you assume they are there.[/quote]
Farer isnt a word.  Further is the word.

You can't see them because the distance is too great to be visible.  You cant even see the citadel but its there.  We know its there but you cant see it because its too far away to make out.



This is how an opening can be created.  These 41 reapers are engaging battle with the fleets.  5 of them move so that they can get a better shot at some ships.  Now theres a big fat opening.  This isnt realistic to how long it takes an object moving below light speed to travel through space but this is what happens in regards to the story.

[quote]Argolas wrote...
[quote]Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The distance is so much larger by magnitudes that even a 2km object would not be visible from a distance of 1000km or so.  Even if bioware decided to put a reaper that far away, at a distance to where it would still be barely visible, its color would blend right in with the blues and reds of a war-torn earth. [/quote]
Just that. Either this is only the front line, which means there can´t be an opening when only several reapers leave, or there is an opening which means that there are no other reapers behind them. Both can´t be true.[/quote]

It can be true if reapers along an axis are all drawn away.  Imagine a tunnel of "no reapers on our scanners" going through the battlefield.  That's what occurs within the story.  Even past that it could just be: "Theres a route here where the reapers are thinnest.  Calculations state that we can make it at the risk of only this many ships."  The part where you're riding in the dropship while soldiers worriedly listen to exploding ships around them depicts the "we are bumrushing them" feeling that bioware was hoping to achieve with this ending.  (too bad nobody liked it)

[quote]Argolas wrote...
[quote]Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

You're also only using one shot as reference.  There are clearly reapers other than those six because the battle scenes account for far more than that.  With how far away objects are in space, its nearly impossible to see the entire fleet with your eyes.  A character would have to rely on SCANNERS.[/quote]

Turians vs Reapers over Palaven
There just aren´t any more Reapers in this scene, although they face the Turian fleet directly. The Turians also fire only on the Reapers we see, save the battle gunship vs. occolus. I think there is also 1 or 2 reapers on the moon, and some will be on palaven itself, but they should not sum up to more than 20-30 because they will mainly focus on the military as long as it resists.
It does not make sense. If there are thousands of capital ships, why not just send 100 of them against the most powerful enemy military in the galaxy? Why even give them a chance to put up a fight?
Because THERE AREN´T THAT MANY CAPITAL SHIPS. In order to keep the Control over earth and other invaded Systems, they need to spread their forces. Otherwise there would never be any need for destroyers and such. [/quote]
Why would you assume there are 2 reapers on the moon, and why would you assume a small number of them on palaven itself?  We travel a very small distance along the face of the moon.
You arent able to see the reapers that are ON the moon from orbit, yet after you land you can CLEARLY see that there are reapers there.
there was a reaper there, but you couldn't see it BECAUSE IT WAS TOO FAR AWAY.
you needed to get CLOSER to it to see it.
because you were TOO FAR AWAY.
it happens right there in the game.  on Manae.  (Palaven's moon)  You can't get an accurate visual count of the reapers because you PHYSICALLY cannot see them because the camera only focuses on one area and then a second area.  According to your logic we are to assume that the turian military only has about 160 ships because thats all we see in that shot.

Whats even funnier is that your logic disproves conventional victory, because it states that six reapers are able to hold off the entire turian fleet, and thats the most powerful fleet in the galaxy.

So what would 300 reapers do in that case?  We only get 5 additional fleets ontop of them.  How would conventional victory be possible if 40 reapers would be all it takes to decimate shepard's 6 fleets?


[quote]Argolas wrote...
[quote]Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The battles between the larger ships all take place over a computer.  targeting is done based on scanners, evasive tactis would have to take place minutes in advance of calculated trajectories, in actuality what does transpire is a little more forgiving of actual distance and scope of a space battle.  In reality the initial conflict of "get hammer past the reaper blockade" would last hours or days.[/quote]

I don´t know. Reapers seem to be quite agile (note how fast Harbinger is down at the beam while he was just fighting). As for crucible and shield fleet, this is exactly what I mean. There is no way they could "slip through" if the reapers had the ships to fill up the opening.[/quote]
The distance between atmosphere and the surface of the earth is roughly 100km from the surface.  Thats still a fairly short distance when you consider the volumetric space of the battle going on above the planet.

[quote]Argolas wrote...
[quote]Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Theres also this: Its a planet, blocking one side of a planet does nothing because its a giant ball.  The reapers would have to be placed all along the globe to prevent the ships from just coming in above the atlantic ocean or japan and then flying through the atmosphere to london.  The earth has a circumference of 40,075.16 km at the equator, and the surface area is 510 million square kilometers.  This area increases exponentially the further from the planet you travel.  Even considering the sword fleet is attacking from one direction, this is still upwards of billions of kilometers of space that make up the "battle zone".  This is a massive distance for the reapers to cover which you cant do with 6 capital on one side.   Even the estimate of 20,000 reaper ships isnt enough to blockade the planet in 3-dimensional space.  The idea that the reapers could blockade ANYTHING with 6 or even 300 ships is LAUGHABLE, and these guys are conducting war on at least 3 OTHER major planets in the galaxy at this point (if the extended cut is to be believed) [/quote]

The side of earth that is directed towards the relay is quite efficiantly blocked by those less than 100 reapers we see in the sequence. Both Sword and Shield fleets are not able to manouver around them, look at this giant mass of warships, the only tactic they can use is forming a block and uniting all their firepower. If they tried to get past those 100 reapers, they would be ripped apart. Remember, it´s about 86 dreadnoughts only... Also, some ways must have been open because Hammer shuttles got through unharmed, they were only taken down by AA guns and groundfire after they entered the atmosphere. This confirms that the reapers were not able to form a solid block, only this 100 souvereign-class ships strong frontline that can not be defeated but avoided. The other 150 reapers of my estimation are most likely spread on earth and other systems- remember there are no fleets left exept this. They all abandoned their planets by then and joined the earth mission. 10 invincible souvereign-class reapers on every major homeworld, supported by Destroyers and ground troops, are more than enough to maintain control.

[/quote]

If the reapers were patroling that area of space, then hammer flanking them by diving down through earth's atmosphere and traveling along its surface would have to be the simpler strategy (which is kind of what we see the alliance doing in the ME3 comercials)  Infact I would argue thats what would have to happen for the battle to make sense.  Sword battles the reapers until an opening along the surface of the planet is spotted where the alliance can travel the planet's surface to reach london.   Then the reapers are driven away from the citadel so that shield can dock.  Thats what we are lead to believe.  (in low EMS we see reapers attack the crucible as it docks)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 16 octobre 2012 - 11:13 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

or the game could have been written differently. were the galaxy was preparing for the arrival of the reapers, like ME2 set it up for. like making thanix canons and NOT relying on a bazaro device no one knows anything about.

ofcorse its easy to say "we can never beat the reapers, EVAR." but its astronomically better the say "i beat the ****in reapers!"

Why do you assume that Soverign's gun is strong enough to kill him?  We dont understand reaper KINECTIC BARRIERS, which are what make them impervious to our WEAPONS.  In ME2 if you've got Thanix cannons installed on the normandy joker still isnt able to do anything about the dead reaper's shields coming back on.  The thanix cannons make your guns strong enough to destroy a COLLECTOR SHIP, but not a REAPER.

SHIELDS.  what make the reapers impervious are their SHIELDS.  They prevent weapons fire from hitting the ship itself.  didnt you ever watch star trek?

yup, reapers shields are the reason starchild was created. the only time weve ever beaten a reaper is when their shields are down. im sortof getting more and more comfortable with the thought of the crucible just being an anti shields device so we could beat the reapers conventionally.

what if the bomb was slow moving enough that it wouldnt recochet off the shielding? are they like kinetic shields that cant stop knifes becasue theym ove to slow?

honestly, i dont even care to know the "answer" to that. its all a bunch of BS stacked on top of BS anyways.

I remember as I beat ME1 years ago, I started thinking about the battle with soverign and how we could possibly defeat the reapers and "super weapon" or a "trick" was what I thought at the time.  (and really, a "trick" is what does it in me1)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 16 octobre 2012 - 11:14 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

moater boat wrote...

One more thing that proves that the Reaper did not have 20,000 capital ships (or some other huge number) and that is the fact that sword fleet managed to protect shield fleet and the crucible long enough for it to dock with the citadel. If there really were that many reapers sword fleet would have been destroyed outright, no shuttles would have made it too Earth, and the crucible wouldn't have made it anywhere close to the citadel. Some of you people need to stop using math and start using common sense.

Theres enough distance that you can fudge the numbers.  Soverign managed to take out a third of the attacking fleet (depending on how the battle goes) in the half hour or so that the battle lasted.  If we assume London lasts as long as that then its theoretically possible to work it out.  But the reality of the situation is that conveying a realistic space battle is difficult and looks boring, (see: strategy space sims) so they tried to make it look exciting.  (The fighter pilots would be the most useless, pointless thing ever in a space battle and i dont know why they bothered other than "because star wars")

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 16 octobre 2012 - 11:09 .

[moater boat]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

moater boat wrote...

One more thing that proves that the Reaper did not have 20,000 capital ships (or some other huge number) and that is the fact that sword fleet managed to protect shield fleet and the crucible long enough for it to dock with the citadel. If there really were that many reapers sword fleet would have been destroyed outright, no shuttles would have made it too Earth, and the crucible wouldn't have made it anywhere close to the citadel. Some of you people need to stop using math and start using common sense.

Theres enough distance that you can fudge the numbers.  Soverign managed to take out a third of the attacking fleet (depending on how the battle goes) in the half hour or so that the battle lasted.  If we assume London lasts as long as that then its theoretically possible to work it out.  But the reality of the situation is that conveying a realistic space battle is difficult and looks boring, (see: strategy space sims) so they tried to make it look exciting.  (The fighter pilots would be the most useless, pointless thing ever in a space battle and i dont know why they bothered other than "because star wars")

Distance isn't very important when you can travel 30X the speed of light like a Reaper. Even if Sword fleet managed to lure the bulk of the Reapers to the other side of Earth, the Reapers could have gotten back to the citadel in a matter of seconds. The Reapers allowed the crucible to dock with the citadel, which means either
A. They didn't know the crucible was a threat.
B. They simply had their hands full with sword fleet.
C. They are incredibly stupid.

We know C isn't true, and we know that TIM told them about the crucible, so A is out, so the ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION is that sword fleet managed (somehow) to be enough of a problem that the Reapers couldn't just ignore them and blow up the crucible. Of course, this means that the Reapers couldn't be several orders of magnitude more powerful than sword fleet.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

moater boat wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

moater boat wrote...

One more thing that proves that the Reaper did not have 20,000 capital ships (or some other huge number) and that is the fact that sword fleet managed to protect shield fleet and the crucible long enough for it to dock with the citadel. If there really were that many reapers sword fleet would have been destroyed outright, no shuttles would have made it too Earth, and the crucible wouldn't have made it anywhere close to the citadel. Some of you people need to stop using math and start using common sense.

Theres enough distance that you can fudge the numbers.  Soverign managed to take out a third of the attacking fleet (depending on how the battle goes) in the half hour or so that the battle lasted.  If we assume London lasts as long as that then its theoretically possible to work it out.  But the reality of the situation is that conveying a realistic space battle is difficult and looks boring, (see: strategy space sims) so they tried to make it look exciting.  (The fighter pilots would be the most useless, pointless thing ever in a space battle and i dont know why they bothered other than "because star wars")

Distance isn't very important when you can travel 30X the speed of light like a Reaper. Even if Sword fleet managed to lure the bulk of the Reapers to the other side of Earth, the Reapers could have gotten back to the citadel in a matter of seconds. The Reapers allowed the crucible to dock with the citadel, which means either
A. They didn't know the crucible was a threat.
B. They simply had their hands full with sword fleet.
C. They are incredibly stupid.

We know C isn't true, and we know that TIM told them about the crucible, so A is out, so the ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION is that sword fleet managed (somehow) to be enough of a problem that the Reapers couldn't just ignore them and blow up the crucible. Of course, this means that the Reapers couldn't be several orders of magnitude more powerful than sword fleet.

I'll add a couple:

• Perhaps it has something to do with their low level programming that doesnt allow them to interfere with a decision of the creators reguarding their purpose?  (this is a stretch)
• The crucible has enough shielding and layers of armor protection to allow it to dock without being completely destroyed.  We know that its at least several times larger than a destroyer from the low EMS scene.
• Its also possible that larger ships are placing themselves inbetween the reapers and the crucible and directly absorbing as much damage as they can, like a Shield.  It's implied by the Starchild that your EMS is what allows the Crucible to dock without being severely damaged.  (Litterally: Meat-Shields)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 17 octobre 2012 - 12:02 .

[Argolas]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Farer isnt a word.  Further is the word.

Thank you, at least something I learned. I´ll stop responding to the rest since you are convinced that there are so few reapers out of 20,000 on key spots.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Argolas wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Farer isnt a word.  Further is the word.

Thank you, at least something I learned. I´ll stop responding to the rest since you are convinced that there are so few reapers out of 20,000 on key spots.

wh.

you seriously didnt read a word I said did you?  No offense but is english a second language?  Your second sentence is so poorly constructed....it doesn't actually mean anything.  I seriously don't know what you are trying to say with it because it's not coherent.  Could you please rephrase it so I know what you are trying to say?

If you're somehow trying to...say that my example of how objects fade away with distance is "something I'm convinced of"...its not something i'm convinced of, its how things work in real life.

• Priority Palaven: You dont see any capital reapers on the
  moon from orbit, but when you land you can clearly see the capital
  reaper.
• I dont know the exact value but there is a surprisingly
  short (relatively) distance (based on size) where an object is no longer
  visible to the human eye.  This is a scientific fact.

It's super rude to just cop out like that.  Do you litteraly not understand what I am trying to say or are you just being ignorant?  I took the time to carefully respond to everything you had to say, the least you could do is read my entire post before writing it off.  :/

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 17 octobre 2012 - 08:14 .

[GreenFlag]

One Sovereign class Ship can destroy 7 Alliance crusader (wiki) until he die. In ME3 Reapers are outnumbered if you are watched final Sword-Fleet Battle. Also, there are not all Reapers arround Earth, but many stayed in other planets in the galaxy (wiki).

The Galaxy wasn't ready for Reapers. All races are stressed by war, they haven't full prepared army. There is many ingame conversations about, why they cannot be stopped usually way in ME Universe.

Conventional victory is just unlogical fan fiction. First, better to learn some facts in Mass Effect Universe.

Modifié par GreenFlag, 17 octobre 2012 - 08:23 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

GreenFlag wrote...

One Sovereign class Ship can destroy 7 Alliance crusader (wiki) until he die.

probably woulda been even more if shepard dind't shut off his brain