269 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Vigilant111 wrote...

How did we kill a reaper with 2 missiles?

Shot those thanix missiles down it's firing chanber. Why ask?

[Aaleel]

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

And why did collector ships pass because they had an IFF, so I wouldn't think it was suicide flying through.  A risk yes, suicide, no. 

You're splitting hairs at this point.

Splitting hairs?  There's a risk in any military mission.  You upgraded the Normandy and felt better about your chances against a collector ship, but the upgrades do not ensure victory, so there is risk involved in fighting a collector ship.

Suicide mission means, I'm counting on not coming back from this, basically you're assuming you're going to lose, or take heavy losses. 

That is not splitting hairs.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

ive never seen a valid reason why the reapers are this all powerful enemy. its already been discussed that their numbers arent exactly overwhelming. its shown their war strategy is totally idiotic, more so in ME3. benny hill music plays when they chase me around while im planet scanning.

the sole reason why we cant beat the reapers? its their shields.

we cant beat the reapers cuz their shields have too many hit points.

and we got starchild because of it.

"ive never seen a valid reason why the reapers are this all powerful enemy. its already been discussed that their numbers arent exactly overwhelming. "

The estamated max amount of capital ship is 20000......And the destryor number dwarfs that.....
It not just sheilds.

[dreman9999]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Ratimir wrote...

arial wrote...

Ratimir wrote...

No link?

How about a quote? A name? Anything?

go play through ME3, they mention about ever 15minutes "you know we can not win this conventionally"

Oh, I see, you mean "Hackett said so".

And Liara...

And Victus and Garrus.

You won't come back, it is a suicide mission

>comes back

Not you did perpare for said suicide mission. Taking out a reaper fleet conventionaly...No YOU DID NOT.

[wantedman dan]

Aaleel wrote...

Splitting hairs?  There's a risk in any military mission.  You upgraded the Normandy and felt better about your chances against a collector ship, but the upgrades do not ensure victory, so there is risk involved in fighting a collector ship.

Suicide mission means, I'm counting on not coming back from this, basically you're assuming you're going to lose, or take heavy losses. 

That is not splitting hairs.

Yes, it is. You're ignoring several facets about the mission itself.

Such as, you're going to the Collector home in the center of the galaxy amidst the fact that hundreds or potentially thousands of ships have never returned from traversing the Omega 4 relay. You are heading for a full-on assault on said home amidst technology derived straight from the Reapers. There's plenty of reasoning as to why the mission is suicidal; these are only two.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Vigilant111 wrote...

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

Lol Nope



The real reason is because Bioware is lazy, as proven by this terrible game.

Yes

If they made me do 1000 hours of rock climbing with the mako or running around the Citadel in order to get an ending which gives a good showing of war assets in action, I would have done it

Oh, wait I did, so where is this ending?

Don't forget planet scanning!

[Urdnot Amenark]

arial wrote...

 people here always seem to argue that conventional victory is possible when infact it is not.

Reason conventional victory is impossible is simple, Bioware says so.

The Mass Effect universe Is Biowares, not yours. as such Bioware decides what happens, what is possible, and what is impossible.

There is a such thing called opinio, and another called scientia. Your's is opinio, as Bioware has never spoken on the matter officially. There is also a concept called metagaming, and that's precisely what happens when this dead horse reappears. 

[dreman9999]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

arial wrote...

 people here always seem to argue that conventional victory is possible when infact it is not.

Reason conventional victory is impossible is simple, Bioware says so.

The Mass Effect universe Is Biowares, not yours. as such Bioware decides what happens, what is possible, and what is impossible.

There is a such thing called opinio, and another called scientia. Your's is opinio, as Bioware has never spoken on the matter officially. There is also a concept called metagaming, and that's precisely what happens when this dead horse reappears. 

Bioware called the reaper an unstoppable force since ME1. They showed what one can do and then told us a fleet of that the dwarfs ours is coming. Then they showed how they can make unlimited shochtroops which have ther own ships.

On paper and in action the reaper have been show, as a fleet , to be unable to stop by conventional means.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 octobre 2012 - 04:57 .

[Aaleel]

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Splitting hairs?  There's a risk in any military mission.  You upgraded the Normandy and felt better about your chances against a collector ship, but the upgrades do not ensure victory, so there is risk involved in fighting a collector ship.

Suicide mission means, I'm counting on not coming back from this, basically you're assuming you're going to lose, or take heavy losses. 

That is not splitting hairs.

Yes, it is. You're ignoring several facets about the mission itself.

Such as, you're going to the Collector home in the center of the galaxy amidst the fact that hundreds or potentially thousands of ships have never returned from traversing the Omega 4 relay. You are heading for a full-on assault on said home amidst technology derived straight from the Reapers. There's plenty of reasoning as to why the mission is suicidal; these are only two.

Once again how many of those potentially thousands of ships had an IFF that you know of?  You're said we've figured out why these ships can't pass through, and now we have a chance with this IFF.   Suicidal means you know you're going to die but you're going anyway.  Nothing about the mission should have given anyone in the game this feeling on a character level.

[Urdnot Amenark]

dreman9999 wrote...

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

arial wrote...

 people here always seem to argue that conventional victory is possible when infact it is not.

Reason conventional victory is impossible is simple, Bioware says so.

The Mass Effect universe Is Biowares, not yours. as such Bioware decides what happens, what is possible, and what is impossible.

There is a such thing called opinio, and another called scientia. Your's is opinio, as Bioware has never spoken on the matter officially. There is also a concept called metagaming, and that's precisely what happens when this dead horse reappears. 

Bioware called the reaper an unstoppable force since ME1. They showed what one can do and then told us a fleet of that the dwarfs ours is coming. Then they showed how they can make unlimited shochtroops which have ther own ships.

On paper and in action the reaper have been show, as a fleet , to be unable to stop by conventional means.

Things shown in the game and in the lore also suggest the opposite as much as they do the former based on how one interprets the game, and that's still not "official" commentary. 

[wantedman dan]

Aaleel wrote...

Once again how many of those potentially thousands of ships had an IFF that you know of?  You're said we've figured out why these ships can't pass through, and now we have a chance with this IFF.   Suicidal means you know you're going to die but you're going anyway.  Nothing about the mission should have given anyone in the game this feeling on a character level.

Death is not a requirement in a suicide mission. That alone speaks volumes to your interpretation. 

The risk, by itself, for not returning from the mission is enough to label it as such.

[dreman9999]

Aaleel wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Splitting hairs?  There's a risk in any military mission.  You upgraded the Normandy and felt better about your chances against a collector ship, but the upgrades do not ensure victory, so there is risk involved in fighting a collector ship.

Suicide mission means, I'm counting on not coming back from this, basically you're assuming you're going to lose, or take heavy losses. 

That is not splitting hairs.

Yes, it is. You're ignoring several facets about the mission itself.

Such as, you're going to the Collector home in the center of the galaxy amidst the fact that hundreds or potentially thousands of ships have never returned from traversing the Omega 4 relay. You are heading for a full-on assault on said home amidst technology derived straight from the Reapers. There's plenty of reasoning as to why the mission is suicidal; these are only two.

Once again how many of those potentially thousands of ships had an IFF that you know of?  You're said we've figured out why these ships can't pass through, and now we have a chance with this IFF.   Suicidal means you know you're going to die but you're going anyway.  Nothing about the mission should have given anyone in the game this feeling on a character level.

A suicide mission mean you don't know if the group going in will servive as well. Not that you know they will all die.

[Aaleel]

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Once again how many of those potentially thousands of ships had an IFF that you know of?  You're said we've figured out why these ships can't pass through, and now we have a chance with this IFF.   Suicidal means you know you're going to die but you're going anyway.  Nothing about the mission should have given anyone in the game this feeling on a character level.

Death is not a requirement in a suicide mission. That alone speaks volumes to your interpretation. 

The risk, by itself, for not returning from the mission is enough to label it as such.

Well when I hear word suicide death is pretty much what comes to mind.  If high risk is what makes something a suicide mission than you've been on plenty during the trilogy. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 14 octobre 2012 - 05:01 .

[wantedman dan]

Aaleel wrote...

Well when I hear word suicide death is pretty much what comes to mind.  If high risk is makes something a suicide mission than you've been on plenty during the trilogy. 

Exactly the point.

[Aaleel]

dreman9999 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Splitting hairs?  There's a risk in any military mission.  You upgraded the Normandy and felt better about your chances against a collector ship, but the upgrades do not ensure victory, so there is risk involved in fighting a collector ship.

Suicide mission means, I'm counting on not coming back from this, basically you're assuming you're going to lose, or take heavy losses. 

That is not splitting hairs.

Yes, it is. You're ignoring several facets about the mission itself.

Such as, you're going to the Collector home in the center of the galaxy amidst the fact that hundreds or potentially thousands of ships have never returned from traversing the Omega 4 relay. You are heading for a full-on assault on said home amidst technology derived straight from the Reapers. There's plenty of reasoning as to why the mission is suicidal; these are only two.

Once again how many of those potentially thousands of ships had an IFF that you know of?  You're said we've figured out why these ships can't pass through, and now we have a chance with this IFF.   Suicidal means you know you're going to die but you're going anyway.  Nothing about the mission should have given anyone in the game this feeling on a character level.

A suicide mission mean you don't know if the group going in will servive as well. Not that you know they will all die.

That's any mission then from a character perspective.  You're not guaranteed to return from any mission. 

Kamakazee pilots went on suicide missions.

[Urdnot Amenark]

Aaleel wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Splitting hairs?  There's a risk in any military mission.  You upgraded the Normandy and felt better about your chances against a collector ship, but the upgrades do not ensure victory, so there is risk involved in fighting a collector ship.

Suicide mission means, I'm counting on not coming back from this, basically you're assuming you're going to lose, or take heavy losses. 

That is not splitting hairs.

Yes, it is. You're ignoring several facets about the mission itself.

Such as, you're going to the Collector home in the center of the galaxy amidst the fact that hundreds or potentially thousands of ships have never returned from traversing the Omega 4 relay. You are heading for a full-on assault on said home amidst technology derived straight from the Reapers. There's plenty of reasoning as to why the mission is suicidal; these are only two.

Once again how many of those potentially thousands of ships had an IFF that you know of?  You're said we've figured out why these ships can't pass through, and now we have a chance with this IFF.   Suicidal means you know you're going to die but you're going anyway.  Nothing about the mission should have given anyone in the game this feeling on a character level.

A suicide mission mean you don't know if the group going in will servive as well. Not that you know they will all die.

That's any mission then from a character perspective.  You're not guaranteed to return from any mission. 

Kamakazee pilots went on suicide missions.

I would say the disproportionately high chance of dying - since no other ship has ever survived the Omega 4 relay - suggests that completing the mission is impossible, thereby making it a suicide mission. At least in war there's a general chance of survival, though the risk is high depending on the circumstances. 

[dreman9999]

Aaleel wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Splitting hairs?  There's a risk in any military mission.  You upgraded the Normandy and felt better about your chances against a collector ship, but the upgrades do not ensure victory, so there is risk involved in fighting a collector ship.

Suicide mission means, I'm counting on not coming back from this, basically you're assuming you're going to lose, or take heavy losses. 

That is not splitting hairs.

Yes, it is. You're ignoring several facets about the mission itself.

Such as, you're going to the Collector home in the center of the galaxy amidst the fact that hundreds or potentially thousands of ships have never returned from traversing the Omega 4 relay. You are heading for a full-on assault on said home amidst technology derived straight from the Reapers. There's plenty of reasoning as to why the mission is suicidal; these are only two.

Once again how many of those potentially thousands of ships had an IFF that you know of?  You're said we've figured out why these ships can't pass through, and now we have a chance with this IFF.   Suicidal means you know you're going to die but you're going anyway.  Nothing about the mission should have given anyone in the game this feeling on a character level.

A suicide mission mean you don't know if the group going in will servive as well. Not that you know they will all die.

That's any mission then from a character perspective.  You're not guaranteed to return from any mission. 

Kamakazee pilots went on suicide missions.

1.Kamekazee pilot did not know it was a suidice mission till mid battle. They knew it was possible but did not do suicide attacks till they were ordered to mid battle.

2. Every mission in ME the charaters knew there we dangers but they knew what they were facing out side of the collector mission and most of the missions in ME3. The collector mission were suicide misson because they knew the collecteor are extremely power and did not know there full capabilities. This is not averge for the majority of the missions in ME.

[arial]

can you all stop derailing this thread? its about the fact Conventional victory is not possible, not about the definition of "Suicide mission"

[dreman9999]

wantedman dan wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Well when I hear word suicide death is pretty much what comes to mind.  If high risk is makes something a suicide mission than you've been on plenty during the trilogy. 

Exactly the point.

Wrong. the other mission you knew what the max potention was that your facing and planned for that. With the collector base mission you did not and just made a super flexible team to respond to any threat that came up the best it could. That makes the difference.

[Urdnot Amenark]

arial wrote...

can you all stop derailing this thread? its about the fact Conventional victory is not possible, not about the definition of "Suicide mission"

The subject has obviously moved on, since others are not commenting on the original topic.

[Ratimir]

arial wrote...

can you all stop derailing this thread? its about the fact Conventional victory is not possible, not about the definition of "Suicide mission"

There are plenty of threads about the claim that conventional victory is not possible. This one is actually about the claim that BioWare said that conventional victory is not possible. I'm still waiting for any evidence to support this claim.

[Aaleel]

arial wrote...

can you all stop derailing this thread? its about the fact Conventional victory is not possible, not about the definition of "Suicide mission"

I apologize I'll stop.

[Aaleel]

I'll get back on topic. This is why it's not possible.

- Reapers come through to Earth. Hackett sacrifices the entire 2nd fleet just so that the others can live and fight another day.
- You get to Palaven and you hear. 'Oh no, not Palaven', 'the most advanced military in the galaxy and they're being being obliterated', 'they're being decimated'. Then later on Garrus says he's going to recommened preserving the remaining assests for earth.
- Thessia, well that's a complete curb stomping
- Reapers even after beefed up security overwhelm the Citadel and move it before as much as a distress signal can be sent out.
- Hammer forces sustain heavy losses just trying to get to the beam and what's left is decimated and beaten back by one reaper standing next to a beam.

No one even knows how many reapers there are and how many of each type. Nothing I read in the codex, on a war asset, or saw in game leads me to believe it's even close to possible.