26 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

So I finally beat Baldur's Gate 1 Tales of The Sword Coast. The final battle was really tough. But I did it in the end.
Initially I went with Fighter/Mage/Cleric, but for Baldur's Gate 2 I decided to remove the Fighter from the equation.


Build

Name: Nora Jenkins.
Half Elf/Half Human
Chaotic Good
Female
Mage/Cleric (I wanted to ditch the Fighter part so that I could focus on building a mage with access to both priest and wizard spells)

With the following stats

Strength: 6
Dexterity: 7
Constitution: 18
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 18
Charisma: 14


Current Party

Yoshimo: Bounty Hunter
Minsc: Ranger
Boo: Hamster 
Jaheira: Fighter/Druid
Nalia: Mage/Thief




Is this a good build?
What are your prefered priest spells?    (Levels 1-3)
What are your prefered priest spells? (Level 4 onwards)
What are your prefered wizard spells?  (Levels 1-3)
What are your prefered wizard spells? (Level 4 onwards)
In your opinion, which companions best suit the Mage/Cleric class?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:55 .

[Abraham_uk]

So what do you think?

[morbidest2]

The plus side is that you'll never run out of low level spells. The negative side is that your character won't be very powerful until ToB. For wizard spells, pack as many Melf's minute meteors as you can, as well as things like magic missile and detect invisibility. Since you and Jaheira are the only healers, you have to concentrate on healing spells, since Jah will get some useful druidic attacks spells as she matures. You might consider adding a pure cleric like Viconia, or a dual F/C like Anomen to beef up that side of your party, as well as for dealing with Undead. Also another fighter (Korgan or Keldorn or Mazzy) will be much more valuable than having 2 thieves in your party. If you stock up Nalia with thieving potions, she can do the job, as well as being the best mage in your party. Ranged weapons are much less important in BG2 than they were in BG1, so Yoshi doesn't really pull his weight, although his storyline is useful when you finally go to rescue Imoen. You could stash him at the Copper Coronet until then.
In the future you might consider redistributing your 27 strength-dex-charisma points to a 9-9-9, or 10-10-7 distribution. You'll live longer if you are better at ducking, and even a mage needs a certain amount of strength to haul their potions, books, etc. If you go to the Circus, you will find a Charisma aid.

[Matuse]

18 con doesn't help at all, your character maxes out at 16.

I would not want to have str that low...granted you can compensate for it with cleric spells, but that is mostly combat only, and will impede your ability to carry and use equipment.

Spell selection is somewhat fluid depending on what you are fighting. One of the biggest advantage of a Cle/Wiz is the ability to put divine spells into sequencers, triggers, and contingencies. You can do some fierce things when you sequence spells like Doom, Miscast Magic, and Poison. Or go for a massive heal burst by throwing several cure spells into a sequencer. A chain contingency for 25% health that throws a Heal, Stoneskin, Sanctuary will make you nearly unkillable.

Lower level spells to keep on hand pretty much all the time:
Sanctuary
Remove Fear
Pro. Evil 10'
Defensive Harmony
Chant
Magic Missile
Chromatic Orb
Stoneskin
Breach
Pierce Magic
True Sight
Skull Trap
Death Ward
Chaotic Commands
Holy Smite

Modifié par Matuse, 14 octobre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks man.
I can't wait to recuit a Krogan

https://encrypted-tb...EAl_eW1qKcK2npQ

I bet Korgan is a fantastic fighter.
https://encrypted-tb...AJ6DcjgdbJXybjg

[Jianson]

Matuse wrote...18 con doesn't help at all, your character maxes out at 16.

Well, it does give you a cushion that you can have up to 2 familiars die without hurting your max HP in the long run...

Or, if you bring the Claw of Kazgaroth over from BG1, you can wear it without HP penalty.

Modifié par Jianson, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .

[Abraham_uk]

Which would you argue is the better "Kit"?


Fighter/Mage/Cleric

or

Mage/Cleric




I've played

Fighter/Mage/Cleric in Baldur's Gate 1.
and

Cleric/Mage in Baldur's Gate 2.

I still don't get what turning undead actually does, other than force a choir to "arrrrr" in a sinister manner.



Also Yoshimo isn't any old Thief, he is a Bountyhunter.
What is the difference between Bountyhunter and the Fighter/Thief dual class?
Also is there areally any point in dual classing Bountyhunter with Fighter?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:06 .

[Amberion]

Fighter/Mage/Cleric uses too many different stats. I would go with a Mage/Cleric of the two. Turn undead doesn't really work when the AI mode is on, since you can't attack and turn undead at the same time; it counts as a discrete round action. Once you take an entire round turning undead, any undead in the vicinity will either ignore it(if they're more powerful than you), flee(if they're around the same power level as you), or explode into bloody chunks(if they're weaker than you).

[morbidest2]

Multi-classes get promoted very slowly, since the XPs are split 50/50 (or even worse, 33/33/33 for your F/M/C) between the PC's 2 classes. If you are using a party of six - which would be natural the first time you play the game - your PC is going to lag behind the rest of the group as they become more and more powerful. In a solo game dual (human) characters like F/T or Ranger/Cleric or M/C make a lot more sense, but you need to know the game very well to play Solo. If you like the idea of an F/T, try a half-elf Swashbuckler (Dex=19) on your next run, or a human R/C for a tough Cleric.

[Matuse]

Cleric/Mage will outshine F/C/M in the long run. Without mods, tri-class characters have little to no access to high level abilities and 9th level spells. Fighter just isn't getting you that much.

You can make an effective melee character with a cleric by using the various combat buffs (Righteous Magic, Draw Upon Holy Might, etc). Plus, Flails, Warhammers, and Quarterstaves have some of the strongest representative weapons available.

Ranger/Cleric gets really obscene. Righteous Magic + Greater Whirlwind means 10 attacks per round that all inflict maximum damage.

[Abraham_uk]

What exactly is turning undead supposed to do?

When is a good time to use it?
When is it a bad time to use it?
How do I use it well?

I rarely ever used in in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2.

[Gate70]

A good or neutral cleric will either repel undead (they run away or cower in corners) or at a higher level explode.
An evil cleric can eventually control them like a charmed/dominated character.

A good time to use it is when you have sufficient turning levels (shown on record screen).
A bad time to use is is at too low a turning level (most of BG1), or where you could be dead before it activates.
It works well against a horde of undead. Most will be neutralised faster than you could achieve with weapons.

More details at www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg/character/classes/tables/turnundead.shtml

Modifié par Gate70, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Jianson]

If you have scouted ahead and know that a large group of powerful undead is ahead (vampires, mummies, the beefier shadow types, etc.), a cool trick a non-evil cleric can do is to cast Sanctuary and then just take a walk among them with Turn Undead on.

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks guys.
So many helpfull tips.


Could someone please explains all these

Rounds
Saving throws
etc.

How do I make my characters immune to sleep, mind control and chaos?

Boy do I loathe "save vs spell" and "my spell got interrupted".

In Dragon Age Origins, that was one of the drawbacks of playing arcane warrior. When you get in close and personal with your melee weapons, enemies are even more likely to interrupt your spell casting.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 15 octobre 2012 - 11:02 .

[morbidest2]

You really have to read the manual.
There are 10 rounds in a turn. In real time, a round lasts 6 seconds and a turn 1 minute. Depending on the type and level of the character and the weapon being used, a character such as a thief using a knife will attack very early in a turn (that's why backstabbing can be deadly), while a warrior using a clumsy 2 handed sword or a halbard will attack late in a turn. Similarly, different magic spells take different numbers of rounds to be cast. In general - but not always - the more powerful the spell, the longer it takes to cast it. A wise mage looks at how long it takes to cast a spell before adding it to his memorized spell list.Thus in a mage to mage battle, you might be trying to cast a thunderingly powerful 5th level spell, but the enemy mage keeps making you lose your spell with quick, 1st level magic missiles. This is why in almost any battle FIRST YOU KILL THE ENEMY MAGIC USERS.
Saving throws are shown on the right hand column of your PCs and NPCs "doll" sheets. In general, little people (dwarves,gnomes, hobbits) start off with better (lower) saving throws than "big folk". That is why a gnome M/T doesn't get killed instantly and why dwarves are the toughest fighters in the game. As your party goes up in level, things like savings throws get better and better (lower). Magic Resistance is also important (the higher the better). That's why Viconia, a drow born with extremely high magic resistence - which can even be improved to 100% as the game goes on - is used by some players to do nothing but eat magic users.
All of these things were true in BG1; they are not new, or tougher, in BG2.
if you don't sit down and read the manual, expect to reload a lot. You can play a Half-Orc fighter with Str=19 - all balls and no brains - and just slash away without knowing anything, but a M/C has to be crafty to survive.

There are 5th level spells that protect against mental attacks - the trick is you had better use them before the battle starts. There are also potions, amulets, helmets, etc., that help. Read and remember the item descriptions.

Modifié par morbidest2, 16 octobre 2012 - 12:22 .

[Abraham_uk]

I always try to kill the mages first regardles of the game.

Mages seem to have the least health (normally).
And they are a pain in the backside.


Thank you morbidest2


I never noticed Dragon Age Origins using a saving throw system. I've played that game a lot.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 16 octobre 2012 - 12:31 .

[silenceall]

morbidest2 wrote...
Depending on the type and level of the character and the weapon being used, a character such as a thief using a knife will attack very early in a turn (that's why backstabbing can be deadly), while a warrior using a clumsy 2 handed sword or a halbard will attack late in a turn. Similarly, different magic spells take different numbers of rounds to be cast.

I think the italicized text (my emphasis) should be replaced with "round", "round" and "portions of a round," respectively.
Also, I think the whole explanation you provide is great, but it doesn't take into consideration someone with more than 1 attack per round (APR, which is also shown in your character record).  When dual wielding a character will have at least 2 APR.  Fighters (including Rangers, Paladins, etc.) will also gain an extra 1/2 APR at levels 7 and 13.  Without spoiling too much there are also certain weapons, items, spells and high level abilities (HLAs, gained later) that can increase your APR. I believe, but am not certain that all attacks after the first are taken just before the end of the round.

...all balls and no brains...

very amusing and correct at the same time.

[morbidest2]

Silenceall: You're right, of course. I was trying to get the OP to look at the basics in the manual, which apparently he went all thru BG1 without doing so, and I wrote quicker than I thought. Since he did play BG1, I assumed "Abe" knows that many things improve as your party goes up in level.
My basic concern is that he is using a M/C on his first BG2 run, so he really needs to do some planning, or else be prepared to reload an awful lot, which isn't much fun.

[silenceall]

^Agreed, and I knew you knew that, but I was just trying to complete the picture.

[Pangaea]

A Cleric/Mage should be tougher than a Thief/Mage (that I'm running for my first BG2 run). It's not going fantastically well, but well enough I guess.

You really need to read up on the basics though. I recommend giving this AD&D FAQ a read. http://www.gamefaqs....rment/faqs/8566

Some of it may be hard to grasp, but there is a good overview of the basics, which will really help you out. Read item descriptions and such too, as that will aid you in determining what weapons or other items types fits what character the best.

The game is difficult enough as it is, so you don't need to add extra layers by not being proficient in the rules.

[ussnorway]

The Thief mage will end well when 'use any item' and HLA traps start to kick in.

[Matuse]

Improved Invisibility + Improved Haste + x4 backstab mod also does wonders.

[Abraham_uk]

morbidest2 wrote...

Silenceall: You're right, of course. I was trying to get the OP to look at the basics in the manual, which apparently he went all thru BG1 without doing so, and I wrote quicker than I thought. Since he did play BG1, I assumed "Abe" knows that many things improve as your party goes up in level.
My basic concern is that he is using a M/C on his first BG2 run, so he really needs to do some planning, or else be prepared to reload an awful lot, which isn't much fun.

I don't mind reloading a lot.
It pretty much sums up my experience of Dragon Age Origins. Not the DLC though.

Baldur's Gate seems challenging. Particularly that boss battle against Sarevok. I never knew killing a half brother of a Diety could be so much trouble.

When he said "I don't fear death do you" I wanted to say "With the power of reload previous save, I never fear death!"



Thanks guys for all the advice. I am going to take it on board.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 18 octobre 2012 - 05:58 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Something I haven't seen mentioned about Turn Undead: It works like bardsong. That is, you cannot do it and do anything else at all. It only activates once per round. If you have any kind of automatic action going on, your toon will override it before the beginning of the next round in order to attack or move.

If you want to use Turn Undead ability, you need to separate out your cleric from any marquee party selection, just as you would with your bard. Once you are sure your cleric, and *only* your cleric is selected, activate Turn Undead. Make sure that you do not accidentally select your cleric in any subsequent party commands. You really need to start micromanaging toon by toon when you need this ability.

Once you know how to use it properly, it can make many battles a *lot* easier. The battle against Bassilus, with his army of skeletal crossbowmen comes to mind. Your cleric can make all those undead crossbowmen start screaming and running away while the rest of your party deals with Bassilus.

Once your cleric has a "clean aura" (no other actions assigned at the beginning of the round), he or she can move around and carry the area of effect around, such that if a far group of undead doesn't get blasted in the first round, you can blast them on the next round by moving toward them.

If you have a pure-classed cleric and a party with fewer than six members, then, by the time you get to SoA, you can even start insta-killing vamps, including Bodhi. However, a mage-cleric is *never* going to have this ability at high enough level to be useful, anywhere, any time. A mage-cleric who activates Turn Undead is pretty reliably going to accomplish absolutely nothing. The level of the ability will just get *too* far behind the game curve.

[Abraham_uk]

Do you know any pure "Clerics" I can recuit?
Also pure mages I can recuit.

I want access to higher level spells and abilities, whilst having my main character being versatile.