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Bodahn: The Warden's Spy


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#1
KENNY4753

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So I found this on the HTL forums and thought it was interesting so i'm posing it here too

Bodahn works for the Warden

He appears in Dragon Age II when a big expedition far in the deep roads is being organized, a subject of great interest for the Wardens. Chances are that the Warden him/her self sent him to Kirkwall to have an agent in the expedition so she can have first hand account of what is found there. After the expedition, among Bodahn's reports are notes about Hawke which awake the interest of the Warden who then order Bodahn to stay close to Hawke. This explains why Gray Wardens turn up during the Qunari Crisis and why the sibling comes back if a Grey Warden at the end of Act 3: Bodahn was warning his boss of the looming crisis each time, who reacted by dispatching available troops to aid Hawke. That would also explain why Bodahn says that he's going to leave Hawke soon: after the current crisis, the Warden is going to send him on another assignment. Finally, it makes sense from Bodahn viewpoint: he specializes in rare, costly, lost artifacts, and Wardens have a knack at finding those, plus, he knows he's not getting younger and he needs someone to take care of Sandal, and the Wardens would have a big vested interest in taking care of a master enchanter who can kill single handedly Darkspawns by dozens.

But Bodahn is leaving not to go with the Wardens but to have a place in Celene's court. And why is this particular Deep Roads expedition of more interest than the countless ones that take place in Orzammar but the Wardens don't see fit to spy on? It's not like anyone expects them to find what they find. And just how long was it being planned that the Warden has time to hear about it and send Bodhan over from Ferelden which, if Hawke's journey is any indication, takes two months? And why in the world would they be particularly interested in Hawke of all people? At the end of Act 1, Hawke is just an immigrant who managed to get rich in an expedition and who can fight well. Hardly a person of interest. Also, there are no Grey Wardens stationed in Kirkwall and though things had continued to deteriorate, the Qunari invasion and the Rite of Annulment really took people by surprise. And considering that the Grey Wardens basically ignored the invasion and only your sibling would help with the Rite of Annulment, why would they bother to make sure to be present if they aren't actually going to do anything?

Bodahn is leaving not to go with the Wardens but to have a place in Celene's court 

Bodahn is going to Celene's court to spy for the Wardens: even if he is getting older, this does not means that he is retiring yet

why in the world would they be particularly interested in Hawke of all people?

The Warden was not interested in Hawke, s/he was interested in putting someone in the Dwarven merchant guild of Kirkwall: Kirkwall and Amaranthine being rivals in the Waking Sea trade; even if Dwarves do not directly take part in the seafaring business, they do have vested interest in a lot of the city's activity, which probably includes its merchant fleet as well, and the First Warden made it clear in Awakening that he wanted Amaranthine to prosper as much as possible since such a success would create a precedent usefull for the order political clout.

At the end of Act 1, Hawke is just an immigrant who managed to get rich in an expedition and who can fight well 

At the end of Act 1, Hawke is in good terms with the captain of the city guard, with Varric who took over his brother business after his betrayal and disappearance and became an influencial member of the merchant guild, the Viscount and his son as well as with fellow Warden and former comrade in arm Anders: there is plenty of reasons for the Wardens to consider Hawke a person worthy of their attentions by the end of the first act.

And just how long was it being planned that the Warden has time to hear about it and send Bodhan over from Ferelden which, if Hawke's journey is any indication, takes two months? 

Hawke takes a boat in Gwaren, at the southern tip of Ferelden and his boat was delayed by storms; Bodhan would have taken a boat at Amaranthine, which is a the opposite shore of the same narrow sea than Kirkwall, with probably no more than a week of travel. Plus, Hawke spent one full year working as a mercenary/smuggler before trying to become part of the expedition, wich means that he would have met Bodahn at least 14 months after Ostagar, and probably more, in you take into account the trip between Lothering and Gwaren and the Blight lasted less than a year and the Warden arrived in Amaranthine 6 months after the Batlle of Denerim, so it is coherent with the timeline: The Warden might have proposed Bodahn to keep working for the Wardens right after the last battle, and sending him to Kirkwall would have been one of her first decision as the Arl of Amaranthine, with those event not shown in Origin and Awakening because they were not relevant those two games plots.

why is this particular Deep Roads expedition of more interest than the countless ones that take place in Orzammar but the Wardens don't see fit to spy on? 

Who said the Warden did not spy on those as well? s/he already has plenty of allies in Orzammar, and as said earlier, Bodahn main task might be to inform him/her of what happens in Kirkwall as a whole, and upon arriving, he find that a prominent member of the merchant guild is trying to organize an expedition that would go in part of the Deep Roads that have remained unexplored since the Darkspawn conquered them, which makes it interesting to the Wardens even before the discovery of the primeval Thaig.

Also, there are no Grey Wardens stationed in Kirkwall and though things had continued to deteriorate, the Qunari invasion and the Rite of Annulment really took people by surprise 

Bodahn is sent to Kirkwall because there are no Grey Wardens in the city: he is acting as their proxy. Plus Wardens are close enough to save Hawke's sibling during the expedition in act one, they lend a hand to Hawke during the invasion and if s/he joined the Wardens, the sibling comes back to Hawke's side for the end of Act 3, so there is plenty of Warden involvement in Kirkwall. As for why they don't get directly involved, well, the order wants to keep its appearance of neutrality, and Bodahn might have spent the six years he spent with Hawke sending repports telling the Warden that Hawke was enough to deal with wathever crisis was coming. This does not mean that there was no more Grey Warden close back: their plan A being letting Hawke do the heavy lifting and remaining in the shadows, the plan B being going at full strength in Kirkwall should Hawke fail. Hawke was successful, allowing the Wardens to remain in the shadows, which fit them just fine.

Modifié par KENNY4753, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:56 .


#2
Teddie Sage

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What if the Grey Warden is in fact... dead?

#3
KENNY4753

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Teddie Sage wrote...

What if the Grey Warden is in fact... dead?

Then maybe the First Warden will have order Bodahn to spy, or maybe Alistair, or maybe Stroud

#4
AppealToReason

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Teddie Sage wrote...

What if the Grey Warden is in fact... dead?


Then maybe Bodahn is buddy buddy with the Amaranthine warden.

#5
AppealToReason

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Its a terrific idea and isn't even that far fetched.

#6
KENNY4753

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AppealToReason wrote...

Its a terrific idea and isn't even that far fetched.

That's what i thought when I saw it on HTL.

I had to post it here and see what people thought

#7
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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I always suspect Grey Warden have something to do in the big picture....even in DA:O, but take a look at DA2 first

Anders is a Grey Warden Mage, he claim he's running away from the order but i don't believe it

In Qunari Invasion there are Grey Wardens that just happen to be hanging around...it is not coincident

In Act 3, Anders blow up the Chantry

All these are dots to be connected....

Hawke is a puppet, a tool...

#8
AppealToReason

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Nizaris1 wrote...

I always suspect Grey Warden have something to do in the big picture....even in DA:O, but take a look at DA2 first

Anders is a Grey Warden Mage, he claim he's running away from the order but i don't believe it

In Qunari Invasion there are Grey Wardens that just happen to be hanging around...it is not coincident

In Act 3, Anders blow up the Chantry

All these are dots to be connected....

Hawke is a puppet, a tool...


The Warden's have always reminded me of a super secret spy organization for some reason. 

#9
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The Warden's have always reminded me of a super secret spy organization for some reason.


Need me to say it? Illuminati....haha

lets look at DA:O,

Why Cailan sent Alistair and the Warden to the tower?
- Alistair is his cousin, heir to the throne
- the Warden is a fresh recruit who know nothing

Edit : Cailan have good relationship with Orlais, there are a lot of Grey Warden in Orlais
Edit 2 : Leliana is from Orlais, a spy

Cailan already suspected a betrayal, but he don't know that the Tower of Ishal is run out with darkspawn. But it happen to be that both Alistair and the Warden saved by Flemeth...the one who also save Grey Warden treaties.

Why Flemeth save the Grey Warden treaties?
- Who want to destroy it in the first place?
- Why Alistair and the Warden who hold the treaties? Isn't it should be given to Duncan?
- Why Flemeth must save the two new Warden in the Tower? Why not the King?
- why darkspawn didn't attack Flemeth hut?
- why Flemeth sent her daughter to follow the Warden actually?
- why her daughter want to kill her actually?

Who is Flemeth actually?
Answer : The Oracle, the Mother of the Matrix, The Architect is the Father of the Matrix

Let see...

Along the quests what the Warden and Alistair do?
- they select the King of Orzamar
- they select the King of Ferelden
- settle Templar problem
- they gain allies from whole Ferelden

Grey Warden are not too welcomed in Ferelden due to previous crisis, what they both do is to rise the status of the Grey Warden back to their former glory

If Alistair become the King, now Ferelden get Grey Warden AND Templar king (and queen if the Warden is female Cousland who marry him)...imagine that...if this is the canon, then isn't it obvious? The Grey Warden and Templar king that have allies everywhere because everyone have a debt with him

The Warden and Alistair is a tool....

Maybe the Blight is CREATED and so the people will not forget the Order of Grey Warden and at the same time constructing Ferelden into a New World Order

Modifié par Nizaris1, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:32 .


#10
EpicBoot2daFace

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I think you're giving BioWare too much credit. Indoctrination Theory, anyone?

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 14 octobre 2012 - 08:25 .


#11
KENNY4753

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Nizaris1 wrote...

I always suspect Grey Warden have something to do in the big picture....even in DA:O, but take a look at DA2 first

Anders is a Grey Warden Mage, he claim he's running away from the order but i don't believe it

In Qunari Invasion there are Grey Wardens that just happen to be hanging around...it is not coincident

In Act 3, Anders blow up the Chantry

All these are dots to be connected....

Hawke is a puppet, a tool...

Conspiracy time

1) According to the epilogue, the Wardens were his lasting companions so maybe he went there on their orders.

2) Sten fed the Warden's some intel. Now that Sten is the Arishok the Qunari-Warden alliance will grow.

3) Anders blew up the chantry because the Warden's wanted attention drawn away from their own plans so they needed Anders to start choas

#12
lx_theo

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Nizaris1 wrote...

I always suspect Grey Warden have something to do in the big picture....even in DA:O, but take a look at DA2 first

Anders is a Grey Warden Mage, he claim he's running away from the order but i don't believe it

In Qunari Invasion there are Grey Wardens that just happen to be hanging around...it is not coincident

In Act 3, Anders blow up the Chantry

All these are dots to be connected....

Hawke is a puppet, a tool...


While I like the idea (and agree with the overall premise from the OP), the first and third ones you have don't seem likely. It actually seems almost entirely based on whether or not you believe Anders or not. Given his character and motivation over the 10 years, I'd say its a safe bet he's honest in those remarks.

#13
Knight of Dane

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This thread gives me the lolz

#14
KENNY4753

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lx_theo wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

I always suspect Grey Warden have something to do in the big picture....even in DA:O, but take a look at DA2 first

Anders is a Grey Warden Mage, he claim he's running away from the order but i don't believe it

In Qunari Invasion there are Grey Wardens that just happen to be hanging around...it is not coincident

In Act 3, Anders blow up the Chantry

All these are dots to be connected....

Hawke is a puppet, a tool...


While I like the idea (and agree with the overall premise from the OP), the first and third ones you have don't seem likely. It actually seems almost entirely based on whether or not you believe Anders or not. Given his character and motivation over the 10 years, I'd say its a safe bet he's honest in those remarks.

Or he could just be a brilliant actor lol

#15
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To be honest, Bodahn came across as more loyal to Hawke than the Warden to me.

In Fereldan, Bodahn was a travelling merchant that saw the Warden as a sucker--uh, potential customer to sell his over-priced merchandise to and act as his bodyguard against bandits and darkspawn on the road. Two birds, one stone. As soon as the Blight was over, he was gone.

In Kirkwall, he was probably hurting for money since he and his boy took on that dangerous job in the Deep Roads Expedition. He also seemed deeply grateful and loyal to Hawke for saving Sandal in the Deep Roads, and voluntarily served as a butler in the Hawke Mansion for... what? Six years? That's way more than the year with the Warden. He wasn't just using Hawke as a free bodyguard service the way he did with the Warden and he didn't cut and run as soon as his financial situation improved following the success of the Deep Roads Expedition.

I don't know, that's how I see it.

#16
Knight of Dane

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Perhaps not entirely free, if it was just that Hawke would have thrown him out. He stayed because of amutual agreement that Bodhan would see to the house and keeping it clean while being permitted to stay under same roof and having protection for himself and Sandal until he figures something else out.

#17
KENNY4753

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Knight of Dane wrote...

Perhaps not entirely free, if it was just that Hawke would have thrown him out. He stayed because of amutual agreement that Bodhan would see to the house and keeping it clean while being permitted to stay under same roof and having protection for himself and Sandal until he figures something else out.

and by figure something out he really meant "Until the Wardens tell me what to do next"

Modifié par KENNY4753, 14 octobre 2012 - 09:23 .


#18
Knight of Dane

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The Warden Died when he sacrificed himself to the Archdemon

#19
KENNY4753

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Knight of Dane wrote...

The Warden Died when he sacrificed himself to the Archdemon

If so, then he could be getting his orders from Alistair, Stroud, or the First Warden himself. Who knows?

#20
Conniving_Eagle

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Brilliant!

#21
Applepie_Svk

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it was dolan ...

#22
Knight of Dane

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KENNY4753 wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

The Warden Died when he sacrificed himself to the Archdemon

If so, then he could be getting his orders from Alistair, Stroud, or the First Warden himself. Who knows?

Stroud doesn't know Bodhan as far as we know. The first Warden orders Nathaniel into the deep roads if he's alive, no need for Bodhan. It's suggested he doesn't know about the primeval thaig before Hawke's been down there. Alistair and the Warden can be dead at the same time.

#23
Knight of Dane

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Applepie_Svk wrote...

it was dolan ...

Applepie_Svk plz

#24
KENNY4753

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Knight of Dane wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

The Warden Died when he sacrificed himself to the Archdemon

If so, then he could be getting his orders from Alistair, Stroud, or the First Warden himself. Who knows?

Stroud doesn't know Bodhan as far as we know. The first Warden orders Nathaniel into the deep roads if he's alive, no need for Bodhan. It's suggested he doesn't know about the primeval thaig before Hawke's been down there. Alistair and the Warden can be dead at the same time.

But the First Warden still could have reasons to send Bodahn to Kirkwall. He knows that Bodahn was with the Warden when he stopped the Blight, and now the Amaranthine belongs to the Wardens he could have wanted to have eyes in the Dwarven Mechants Guild in Kirkwall. They are trading rivals (Kirkwall and Amaranthine). Then he hears about Hawke through the reports and has Bodahn spy on him.

Speculations for everybody 

#25
Knight of Dane

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Where is your source that says the first warden know about Bodhan?