84 réponses à ce sujet

[KENNY4753]

iSignIn wrote...

Yeah. I never understood why Hawke is forced to provide free lodging and meals to him since the beginning of Act 2. This must be the reason,

It would also explain why after accompaning the Warden in DA:O he didn't follow to Amaranthine and become a top merchant there

[AppealToReason]

Yalision wrote...

Well that's interesting, because my Warden is quite dead.

Any time a Warden is referred to and the super BAMF Warden is dead, I just assume they mean the BAMF Warden of Amaranthine. Ya' know, broodmother and architect slayer and junk.

[legbamel]

Yes, particularly in light of his bizarre plea that Hawke save his poor, defenseless son. Hwat, the Warden didn't tell him about the tower in Denerim? Maybe that whole scene was a set-up for his grateful act later.

[septembervirgin]

Actually, I do wonder what Bodahn was doing in Redcliffe while Sandal was in the Circle Tower. I also wonder why Bodahn was so insistent on serving as a butler, when Hawke might decide not to save Sandal.

However, when looking for spies (as well as for circus clowns) one must seek reasonable cause. No one has reason to suspect that Hawke is special enough to monitor through a spy when Bodahn makes himself useful. Now why would a spy of the Grey Wardens seek out Hawke at that moment in time? It might be seen that he met with Anders and the Wardens might be curious about that. Except the Wardens wouldn't really care so much what Anders is doing as long as it doesn't upset the Wardens. The Wardens have little need for indepth information about an escaped Warden and don't have any need for information about a rascal Ferelden who shows some promise.

Why would Anders be working his fingers to the bone in a clinic when he's still under orders of the Wardens? Anders hasn't shown predilection towards the poor before then and hasn't ever shown willingness to discomfort himself for others. Why would the Wardens send a "Problem Child" to Kirkwall? Why would the Wardens want war besides with the darkspawn? Isn't it sufficiently troubling to them that they must die in the Deep Roads?

Now, while you want to answer these, consider Avernus for a moment. He's been slain in many people's games so perhaps he's the best example. He would want expendable wardens to experiment on. He would want to tell the Wardens that he might be able to minimize the effect of the Calling. The problem is, Avernus has had centuries without breakthrough. And the Wardens aren't stupid nor do they seek to breed disloyalty and demoralization among their ranks.

It's just boring to think that the Wardens are conspiring against one another. Then again, I find the Wardens overwrought and melodramatic to begin with. If it were an MMORPG, I'd applaud the idea of a character class doomed to early permadeath especially if there was aging to contend with in the first place. I do not think it's any improvement to make the Wardens hire half-wit spies all over Thedas to watch weirdos for any sign of importance, any at all.

Maybe Bodahn was working for the Seekers briefly, like for maybe a week at most. Maybe Bodahn stole an object from the Circle and was selling it to someone in Redcliffe. I doubt he was hired by the Wardens. I doubt he was hired by the First Warden. And I must absolutely suspect that he'd never be wanted as a permanent spy nor as a spy over someone so seemingly insignificant as Hawke.

[KENNY4753]

septembervirgin wrote...

Actually, I do wonder what Bodahn was doing in Redcliffe while Sandal was in the Circle Tower. I also wonder why Bodahn was so insistent on serving as a butler, when Hawke might decide not to save Sandal.

My guess is paid vacation, or he accompanied Sandal to the Tower and when to nearby Redcliffe to trade while Snadal was at the Circle's Enhantment summer camp. And he was so insistant because after Hawke's success on the expedition the Warden's wanted to keep an eye on him as well as make sure their spy in the Dwarven Merchants Guild safe (Hawke would provide protection for his butler).

Why would Anders be working his fingers to the bone in a clinic when he's still under orders of the Wardens? Anders hasn't shown predilection towards the poor before then and hasn't ever shown willingness to discomfort himself for others. Why would the Wardens send a "Problem Child" to Kirkwall?

The Warden's didn't send Anders to Kirkwall. If they did Nathaniel and Stroud wouldn't act shocked seeing him and mention his death(if he died in Awakening). 

Why would the Wardens want war besides with the darkspawn? Isn't it sufficiently troubling to them that they must die in the Deep Roads?

The Warden's don't want war with anybody (other than ending the blights). That's not what this theory is about. That being said it wouldn't be unexpected for them to have spies everywhere.

1. Amaranthine and Kirkwall are trading rivals. So why not have a dwarven merchant infiltrate the Dwarven Merchants Guild, getting intel on the competition.

2. The whole world can see Kirkwall is one second away from all out war. So that is the real reason Bodahn is leaving Hawke. The Wardens know that there is tension rising between Fereldan and Orlais so they wanted to get Bodahn out of Kirkwall and send him to spy in Orlais (Sandal being offered a position there).

3. The First Warden is involved in politics. Politics is a dirty game, that's the truth of it.

None of these points show that the Wardens want war with anybody. They are just making sure they have inside info on all major events in Thedas.

It's just boring to think that the Wardens are conspiring against one another.

Where did you come up with the idea that the Wardens were conspiring against one another. The whole Bodahn being a spy theory has nothing to do with Wardens turning against each other.

 I do not think it's any improvement to make the Wardens hire half-wit spies all over Thedas to watch weirdos for any sign of importance, any at all.

Bodahn wasn't sent to Kirkwall to watch any weirdos. He was sent there originally to watch the Dwarven Merchants Guild (since Amaranthine and Kirkwall are trade rivals). After the expedition they took notice of Hawke but he wasn't their intent when the sent Bodahn there.

 
Maybe Bodahn was working for the Seekers briefly, like for maybe a week at most. Maybe Bodahn stole an object from the Circle and was selling it to someone in Redcliffe. I doubt he was hired by the Wardens. I doubt he was hired by the First Warden. And I must absolutely suspect that he'd never be wanted as a permanent spy nor as a spy over someone so seemingly insignificant as Hawke.

This is just a theory. It's fine if you don't think it's believable. I believe there is something strange with Bodahn and whether it be this theory or another that's alright.

Modifié par KENNY4753, 17 octobre 2012 - 08:12 .

[legbamel]

septembervirgin wrote...
[snippity one]
Why would Anders be working his fingers to the bone in a clinic when he's still under orders of the Wardens? Anders hasn't shown predilection towards the poor before then and hasn't ever shown willingness to discomfort himself for others. Why would the Wardens send a "Problem Child" to Kirkwall?
[snippity two]

I trimmed this to just the points I wanted to address.  Anders had definitely shown himself willing to help others.  On at least one occasion he was caught and returned to the circle because he stopped to help someone (a farmer whose house was on fire, IIRC) even though he knew the Templars were right behind him.  He doesn't want to be forced to do it but he definitely is willing.  He even votes to save what you can of Amaranthine.  :innocent:

Also, you forget that here he is in this city that has grudgingly taken in refugees and then basically spits on them, relegating them to the bowels of the hill and the worst possible jobs, if they can get any at all.  Justice must have ground his imaginary teeth and railed and Anders for days until he gave in and agreed to help a few...and then a few more...and then there he was, beloved by all and protected in his hidey-hole of a clinic.

We've only the anecdotal ending slides of the ending of Awakening and the wiki story (I don't actually know where the info arose.  It's possible I missed it in the codex.) that Anders took off after an ex-Templar Warden ratted him out and he had to fight for his life and then flee Ferelden.  That could be a cover story, for all we know, or it could be that the Wardens agreed to let him go and lie to the Templars if he agreed to work for them. 

Granted, this is all wild speculation and some twisting of the "facts" to fit the story but it's good, clean fun. 

[KENNY4753]

Nizaris1 wrote...

When thimk about it, there is something fishy about Sandal and Bodhan...and it is not coincident

In DA:O the Warden save both from Darkspawn attack in Lothering...then they both following the Warden. But in Denerim, it is proven that Sandal can kill a lot of Darkspawn and Orge...Bodhan is no where to be found. why he don't just kill bunch of Darkspwn in Lothering earlier?

Then in DA2...Sandal going missing, how come? When we search for him we going through lots of Darkspawns..then he's standing alone with some dead Darkspawn and freezing Orge. Then he left. In the Gallow, again Bodhan is no where to be found...how Sandal got there?

Bodhan always missing in action in final battle leaving Sandal alone.

isn't that odd?

Yeah I agree something is off with those 2. The thing I love is how in both final battles Sandal steals his dads goods when he leaves along with Hawkes storage chest in DA2. When I first seen my storage chest I really checked it to make sure nothing was missing that I put in there during the game.

[rapscallioness]

Faerunner wrote...

To be honest, Bodahn came across as more loyal to Hawke than the Warden to me.

In Fereldan, Bodahn was a travelling merchant that saw the Warden as a sucker--uh, potential customer to sell his over-priced merchandise to and act as his bodyguard against bandits and darkspawn on the road. Two birds, one stone. As soon as the Blight was over, he was gone.

In Kirkwall, he was probably hurting for money since he and his boy took on that dangerous job in the Deep Roads Expedition. He also seemed deeply grateful and loyal to Hawke for saving Sandal in the Deep Roads, and voluntarily served as a butler in the Hawke Mansion for... what? Six years? That's way more than the year with the Warden. He wasn't just using Hawke as a free bodyguard service the way he did with the Warden and he didn't cut and run as soon as his financial situation improved following the success of the Deep Roads Expedition.

I don't know, that's how I see it.

You knoooowwww, I'm actually with FaeRunner on this one. That's how it felt to me, too.

Although, it's an interesting idea. I quite like the idea of the Wardens being some type of illuminati group. Maybe not quite that..but around there.

But Bodhan as the spy?

[KENNY4753]

to the above post:

If it seems like Bodahn was very loyal to Hawke that just might mean he was very good at his role as a spy for the Wardens.

[rapscallioness]

KENNY4753 wrote...

to the above post:

If it seems like Bodahn was very loyal to Hawke that just might mean he was very good at his role as a spy for the Wardens.

Lol. True, but that would suck. To me anyway. In Da2 I came to regard Bodhan and Sandal as kinda Fam. They were one of the very few constants. I would be disappointed to find out it was all just a ruse.

[KENNY4753]

rapscallioness wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

to the above post:

If it seems like Bodahn was very loyal to Hawke that just might mean he was very good at his role as a spy for the Wardens.

Lol. True, but that would suck. To me anyway. In Da2 I came to regard Bodhan and Sandal as kinda Fam. They were one of the very few constants. I would be disappointed to find out it was all just a ruse.

I see where you are coming from. They are the constant in Dragon Age overall. In DA2 they were sort of family to Hawke.

That being said I would love if this theory turns out to be true however

[KENNY4753]

Another reason why it is believable that the Wardens would have Bodahn spying on Hawke as well as the Merchants Guild is due to the Legacy dlc with what Hawke's father did, and how Hawke's blood was necessary to release Corypheus.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Was this really your idea, Kenny?

[KENNY4753]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Was this really your idea, Kenny?

I found it on HTL but I've been coming up with more to add to it.

[Conniving_Eagle]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Was this really your idea, Kenny?

I found it on HTL but I've been coming up with more to add to it.

Oh, I thought you made this up on your own...

Loghain disapproves -3

[KENNY4753]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Was this really your idea, Kenny?

I found it on HTL but I've been coming up with more to add to it.

Oh, I thought you made this up on your own...

Loghain disapproves -3

Loghain disapproves a lot more than just -3 seeing as I killed him 

but I thought it was an interesting theory and I am adding my own stuff to it too

[rapscallioness]

Maybe it's just that the word "spy" has negative connotations for me. It makes me think of someone trying to sneakily sabotage you.

Perhaps Bodahn was sent to....look out for Hawke? And report back when things got crazy? I wouldn't be surprised if the Wardens knew more about Hawke than Hawke did.

What I do wonder also is if Hawke and the Warden are related in all playthru's, or is it just if both your PC's are mages?

[KENNY4753]

rapscallioness wrote...

Maybe it's just that the word "spy" has negative connotations for me. It makes me think of someone trying to sneakily sabotage you.

Perhaps Bodahn was sent to....look out for Hawke? And report back when things got crazy? I wouldn't be surprised if the Wardens knew more about Hawke than Hawke did.

What I do wonder also is if Hawke and the Warden are related in all playthru's, or is it just if both your PC's are mages?

If your warden is a Human Mage they are related all others no, not as far as we know.

and about the bolded part, Bodahn wasn't sent to Kirkwall to look out/spy on Hawke at first. Only after the Deep Roads did the Wardens tell him to keep tabs on Hawke. At first he was sent there to spy on the competion (Amaranthine and Kirkwall trade) by joining the Dwarven Merchants Guild

[rapscallioness]

KENNY4753 wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Maybe it's just that the word "spy" has negative connotations for me. It makes me think of someone trying to sneakily sabotage you.

Perhaps Bodahn was sent to....look out for Hawke? And report back when things got crazy? I wouldn't be surprised if the Wardens knew more about Hawke than Hawke did.

What I do wonder also is if Hawke and the Warden are related in all playthru's, or is it just if both your PC's are mages?

If your warden is a Human Mage they are related all others no, not as far as we know.

and about the bolded part, Bodahn wasn't sent to Kirkwall to look out/spy on Hawke at first. Only after the Deep Roads did the Wardens tell him to keep tabs on Hawke. At first he was sent there to spy on the competion (Amaranthine and Kirkwall trade) by joining the Dwarven Merchants Guild

well, shoot. there goes that idea. I was thinking maybe there was some connection there as to why Bodahn would do that. Or really why the Wardens would be interested.

What would the Wardens be interested in to go to such lengths?

1) that idol Hawke recovered
2) Hawke's..blood? (blood does seem to be a recurring theme. what w/ Alistair and Marric and all that)
3)...what else? I may have to re read the OP....(I'll be back)

[Conniving_Eagle]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Was this really your idea, Kenny?

I found it on HTL but I've been coming up with more to add to it.

Oh, I thought you made this up on your own...

Loghain disapproves -3

Loghain disapproves a lot more than just -3 seeing as I killed him 

but I thought it was an interesting theory and I am adding my own stuff to it too

A clever way to get revenge for my comment the other day. I can respect that.

Loghain approves +7

[KENNY4753]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Was this really your idea, Kenny?

I found it on HTL but I've been coming up with more to add to it.

Oh, I thought you made this up on your own...

Loghain disapproves -3

Loghain disapproves a lot more than just -3 seeing as I killed him 

but I thought it was an interesting theory and I am adding my own stuff to it too

A clever way to get revenge for my comment the other day. I can respect that.

Loghain approves +7

haha it was a good one. Nothing against Loghain though but he deserved to die for Osatagar

[KENNY4753]

rapscallioness wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Maybe it's just that the word "spy" has negative connotations for me. It makes me think of someone trying to sneakily sabotage you.

Perhaps Bodahn was sent to....look out for Hawke? And report back when things got crazy? I wouldn't be surprised if the Wardens knew more about Hawke than Hawke did.

What I do wonder also is if Hawke and the Warden are related in all playthru's, or is it just if both your PC's are mages?

If your warden is a Human Mage they are related all others no, not as far as we know.

and about the bolded part, Bodahn wasn't sent to Kirkwall to look out/spy on Hawke at first. Only after the Deep Roads did the Wardens tell him to keep tabs on Hawke. At first he was sent there to spy on the competion (Amaranthine and Kirkwall trade) by joining the Dwarven Merchants Guild

well, shoot. there goes that idea. I was thinking maybe there was some connection there as to why Bodahn would do that. Or really why the Wardens would be interested.

What would the Wardens be interested in to go to such lengths?

1) that idol Hawke recovered
2) Hawke's..blood? (blood does seem to be a recurring theme. what w/ Alistair and Marric and all that)
3)...what else? I may have to re read the OP....(I'll be back)

well Hawkes Blood is important to the Wardens (as we see in Legacy) but Hawke wasn't the original purpose. After the Deep Roads trip the Wardens learned who Hawke was and decided to have Bodahn stick close to him because of his blood along with the other points in the OP.

Remember the idol was no longer with Hawke. Bertrand (spelling?) stole it. 

[Conniving_Eagle]

Don't go there Br@.

[KENNY4753]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Don't go there Br@.

He did. He was a traitor. I'll admit I liked the character but he deserved death.