167 réponses à ce sujet

[Original Twigman]

This should help those who find the game hard

http://social.biowar...6636/1#14506968

scroll to the top

[Titus Thongger]

Kalas321 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

We also have super weapons now. In the beginning everyone wanted a BW. Now it is is the harrier. BW dps before the bw buff was ~600. The harrier dps is ~1200. Not to mention gear, consumables, equipment, OP characters, etc. The game is easier now.


The problem is people want to jump to platinum right away. They should work their way up...

exactly. we have the reegar. we have the acolyte. we have the harrier. we have grenade capacity gear. we have ARC MOTHER******* GRENADES. We have the typhoon. we have high velocity barrels. we have the indra.  we have the raider shotgun. we have a buffed wraith. we have a buffed black widow. we have NERFED shield gate.

the game is easier than it was at release. on release gold was nigh-impossible for a lot of people.

if people are wiping on gold? go back to silver. wipe on silver? go back to bronze.

I will only admit the game is unplayable in the unlikely event that veteran gold players start consistently wiping on bronze, which I very much doubt it will.

[landylan]

Air Quotes wrote...

N7Kopper wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

The players have also gotten numerous buffs as well, but everyone wants to overlook that.

Most of the buffs were to severely underpowered stuff and some still remain underpowered.

The enemy has the exact same situation.
When was the last time a Nemesis threatened you, even with the new smarter AI?

Well the design is wrong. Buffing it with health and shield points will not make it any better. 

It's not a bad enemy... It's caused me to die plenty of times. Nemesis shot+machine gun burst or Nemisis+Atlas rocket will mean instant death for most characters now.

[NM_Che56]

What the hell is so damn bad about wanting to stay at my skill level? I worked hard to get to where I got in Gold. Now it's like I had a stroke and have to relearn sh**! Ain't right!

[Xerorei]

Titus Thongger wrote...

vDarkEaglev wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

waaa waa waabulancing.

so many tears. so much whine.

need cheese with that?

Go troll eslewhere there really is something up with the game. I've been playing ME3 MP since day 1 of the demo and I'm even having some trouble on silver now. I can still extract every time but I am definately having to use more consumables than I used to.

I've been completely fine with all of the buffs to the enemies and most of the buffs and debuffs of the weaponry but this is a little ridiculous ... I actually put on some equipment on silver which I NEVER used to do up until this point.

it's annoying reading posts whinning about how difficult the game has become since last tuesday EVERYDAY. people have just gotten fat and lazy wtih the same 3 static enemies for the last few months. now that bioware changes the game up a little, everyone is getting butchered and crying waaambulancing about 

every gold/plat game I ran with my usual group last night was under 25 minutes against all enemies on every map. does it feel different? yes. is it challenging? yes. is it unplayable? hell no.

You know what's more annoying than reading those posts, people who troll them, like yourself.

[Original Twigman]

Master Che wrote...

What the hell is so damn bad about wanting to stay at my skill level? I worked hard to get to where I got in Gold. Now it's like I had a stroke and have to relearn sh**! Ain't right!

You are full of BS. I had to work just like you did, and I am not having the same problems. The issue is you my friend, not the game

[iphan4tic]

You never used to get surrounded so quickly, and you most certainly didn't get gang bum rushed the way you do now.

The new units are spammed too much.

Enemy weapon damage seems increased. Insta-downs from cannibals should not happen.

[Maker MEDA]

Intensity of enemies damage increases, faster response at targeting players out of cover, persistence in fire, so on.

[Magicman10893]

Titus Thongger wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

We also have super weapons now. In the beginning everyone wanted a BW. Now it is is the harrier. BW dps before the bw buff was ~600. The harrier dps is ~1200. Not to mention gear, consumables, equipment, OP characters, etc. The game is easier now.


The problem is people want to jump to platinum right away. They should work their way up...

exactly. we have the reegar. we have the acolyte. we have the harrier. we have grenade capacity gear. we have ARC MOTHER******* GRENADES. We have the typhoon. we have high velocity barrels. we have the indra.  we have the raider shotgun. we have a buffed wraith. we have a buffed black widow. we have NERFED shield gate.

the game is easier than it was at release. on release gold was nigh-impossible for a lot of people.

if people are wiping on gold? go back to silver. wipe on silver? go back to bronze.

I will only admit the game is unplayable in the unlikely event that veteran gold players start consistently wiping on bronze, which I very much doubt it will.

....And how does that help when you can't earn enough credits to unlock them? Do you know how long it took for me to get a character with Arc Grenades? Not until after Earth was released and I got a Demolisher, and I still don't have a Paladin or Slayer. I've only unlocked the Acolyte, like once, and that was extremely recently and I haven't even gotten to use it yet. I did manage to get a Harrier through sheer luck and hours farming FBWGG, and out of all my friends that play this game (around 10), only one other person has it. Only two of those friends has an Indra and one doesn't even snipe at all. Only three of us have a Reegar and the highest leveled one is at about 4. Only 3 of us has any kind of grenade capacity gear and the highest bonus any of us have is +2. I'm the only one with a Wraith, and it's still pretty bad because it is only like a level 4. Only three of us have a Black Widow, and the highest level one is a level 2. None of my friends have a Raider that I know of. Most of my friends don't have a Kroguard, any Batarian, any Vorcha, Fury, Destroyer, Demolisher or any other super powered character, weapon or gear. The highest level gear any of my friends have is a level 4. I still have friends that are missing kits from the vanilla game.

With the enemies being buffed through patches and balance updates, nerfs to weapons and powers,  and the (for the most part) miniscule buffs to players, players like us can barely keep up. We don't have the skill or equipment to unlock all the vanilla weapons/kits and stockpile the credits necessary to get the new content in under a hour of release. We don't get to see these things that make the game easy. We just get crushed under the weight of so much new content that we can't make a proper foothold into clearing the manifest. Now with the layout change to White I don't think we ever will until the next hilariously easy farming method is discovered. Until then I will keep wondering what it's like to have Volus running around to protect me while melting enemies with a high level Particle Rifle as a Turian Ghost.

[Titus Thongger]

Xerorei wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

vDarkEaglev wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

waaa waa waabulancing.

so many tears. so much whine.

need cheese with that?

Go troll eslewhere there really is something up with the game. I've been playing ME3 MP since day 1 of the demo and I'm even having some trouble on silver now. I can still extract every time but I am definately having to use more consumables than I used to.

I've been completely fine with all of the buffs to the enemies and most of the buffs and debuffs of the weaponry but this is a little ridiculous ... I actually put on some equipment on silver which I NEVER used to do up until this point.

it's annoying reading posts whinning about how difficult the game has become since last tuesday EVERYDAY. people have just gotten fat and lazy wtih the same 3 static enemies for the last few months. now that bioware changes the game up a little, everyone is getting butchered and crying waaambulancing about 

every gold/plat game I ran with my usual group last night was under 25 minutes against all enemies on every map. does it feel different? yes. is it challenging? yes. is it unplayable? hell no.

You know what's more annoying than reading those posts, people who troll them, like yourself.

it's not my fault there are gold/silver players who cant take the heat as it is now. there is always silver/bronze for those guys. they should go there instead of calling for nerfs which many of us feel are unneeded.

[Gunburgh]

Are the people that aren't experiencing problems post DLC on similar systems? I play on Xbox and I noticed a huge difficulty increase on Gold so I had to drop to Silver for awhile (which is now filled with level 20s). I am tired of people saying those of us that note the problems either aren't any good, can't handle change, or are lazy. It's not us, it's the game. It's a fact.

Mention your system if you are having trouble like the majority is.

[TheKevinShow]

I, for one, enjoy the game now that it's a little more difficult. Then again, as an N7 Destroyer using a Phaeston and Raider, I'm tearing through most enemies with minimum effort anyway.

I still think the complaints about enemies being overpowered are valid, though.

Modifié par TheKevinShow, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:27 .

[Ser Reevo Von Bartlesby]

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

So go play something else.

[Titus Thongger]

Magicman10893 wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

We also have super weapons now. In the beginning everyone wanted a BW. Now it is is the harrier. BW dps before the bw buff was ~600. The harrier dps is ~1200. Not to mention gear, consumables, equipment, OP characters, etc. The game is easier now.


The problem is people want to jump to platinum right away. They should work their way up...

exactly. we have the reegar. we have the acolyte. we have the harrier. we have grenade capacity gear. we have ARC MOTHER******* GRENADES. We have the typhoon. we have high velocity barrels. we have the indra.  we have the raider shotgun. we have a buffed wraith. we have a buffed black widow. we have NERFED shield gate.

the game is easier than it was at release. on release gold was nigh-impossible for a lot of people.

if people are wiping on gold? go back to silver. wipe on silver? go back to bronze.

I will only admit the game is unplayable in the unlikely event that veteran gold players start consistently wiping on bronze, which I very much doubt it will.

....And how does that help when you can't earn enough credits to unlock them? Do you know how long it took for me to get a character with Arc Grenades? Not until after Earth was released and I got a Demolisher, and I still don't have a Paladin or Slayer. I've only unlocked the Acolyte, like once, and that was extremely recently and I haven't even gotten to use it yet. I did manage to get a Harrier through sheer luck and hours farming FBWGG, and out of all my friends that play this game (around 10), only one other person has it. Only two of those friends has an Indra and one doesn't even snipe at all. Only three of us have a Reegar and the highest leveled one is at about 4. Only 3 of us has any kind of grenade capacity gear and the highest bonus any of us have is +2. I'm the only one with a Wraith, and it's still pretty bad because it is only like a level 4. Only three of us have a Black Widow, and the highest level one is a level 2. None of my friends have a Raider that I know of. Most of my friends don't have a Kroguard, any Batarian, any Vorcha, Fury, Destroyer, Demolisher or any other super powered character, weapon or gear. The highest level gear any of my friends have is a level 4. I still have friends that are missing kits from the vanilla game.

With the enemies being buffed through patches and balance updates, nerfs to weapons and powers,  and the (for the most part) miniscule buffs to players, players like us can barely keep up. We don't have the skill or equipment to unlock all the vanilla weapons/kits and stockpile the credits necessary to get the new content in under a hour of release. We don't get to see these things that make the game easy. We just get crushed under the weight of so much new content that we can't make a proper foothold into clearing the manifest. Now with the layout change to White I don't think we ever will until the next hilariously easy farming method is discovered. Until then I will keep wondering what it's like to have Volus running around to protect me while melting enemies with a high level Particle Rifle as a Turian Ghost.

the balance changes for the last few weeks/months have been all buffs.

I'll admit, if you are a new player starting or have a semi-empty manifest, then yes, the game will be challenging. but it was like that for all of us at the start of the game too. I spent months on silver before I even attempted gold, and that was only when my claymore was at level X. it wasnt easy nor quick to achieve. it was challenging for the most part.

alot of gamers nowadays want to be spoonfed (not saying that about you) and instantly want to stomp gold to max out their URs. I maxed out the rares i used most playing silver. and back in the day we did not have level 4 consumables or gear. we have character cards that trolled the store to no end

[UnRestrikted]

Just one question: If Bioware hasn't increased the difficulty or AI characteristics then why would they make all of the new gear (Responder kit, etc.) available? Blatantly giving us more opportunities to use life-saving consumables like Medi-gel capacity says it all in itself.

If they hadn't upped the difficulty, they wouldn't give more chances to successfully extract which gives us more credits which gives us more opportunities to max-out our manifests which decreases Bioware's profit from those purchasing packs with real money.

Whoever believes that Bioware hasnt tweaked the difficulty is either gullible, naive or just plain stupid.

Modifié par UnRestrikted, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:58 .

[sc_ajk29]

Titus Thongger wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

We also have super weapons now. In the beginning everyone wanted a BW. Now it is is the harrier. BW dps before the bw buff was ~600. The harrier dps is ~1200. Not to mention gear, consumables, equipment, OP characters, etc. The game is easier now.


The problem is people want to jump to platinum right away. They should work their way up...

exactly. we have the reegar. we have the acolyte. we have the harrier. we have grenade capacity gear. we have ARC MOTHER******* GRENADES. We have the typhoon. we have high velocity barrels. we have the indra.  we have the raider shotgun. we have a buffed wraith. we have a buffed black widow. we have NERFED shield gate.

the game is easier than it was at release. on release gold was nigh-impossible for a lot of people.

if people are wiping on gold? go back to silver. wipe on silver? go back to bronze.

I will only admit the game is unplayable in the unlikely event that veteran gold players start consistently wiping on bronze, which I very much doubt it will.

Apparently you haven't been reading the forums at all lately.

Nice "You're a poopyhead! Neener-neener-neener!" posts though.

Modifié par sc_ajk29, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:11 .

[Magicman10893]

Titus Thongger wrote...

Magicman10893 wrote...

....And how does that help when you can't earn enough credits to unlock them? Do you know how long it took for me to get a character with Arc Grenades? Not until after Earth was released and I got a Demolisher, and I still don't have a Paladin or Slayer. I've only unlocked the Acolyte, like once, and that was extremely recently and I haven't even gotten to use it yet. I did manage to get a Harrier through sheer luck and hours farming FBWGG, and out of all my friends that play this game (around 10), only one other person has it. Only two of those friends has an Indra and one doesn't even snipe at all. Only three of us have a Reegar and the highest leveled one is at about 4. Only 3 of us has any kind of grenade capacity gear and the highest bonus any of us have is +2. I'm the only one with a Wraith, and it's still pretty bad because it is only like a level 4. Only three of us have a Black Widow, and the highest level one is a level 2. None of my friends have a Raider that I know of. Most of my friends don't have a Kroguard, any Batarian, any Vorcha, Fury, Destroyer, Demolisher or any other super powered character, weapon or gear. The highest level gear any of my friends have is a level 4. I still have friends that are missing kits from the vanilla game.

With the enemies being buffed through patches and balance updates, nerfs to weapons and powers,  and the (for the most part) miniscule buffs to players, players like us can barely keep up. We don't have the skill or equipment to unlock all the vanilla weapons/kits and stockpile the credits necessary to get the new content in under a hour of release. We don't get to see these things that make the game easy. We just get crushed under the weight of so much new content that we can't make a proper foothold into clearing the manifest. Now with the layout change to White I don't think we ever will until the next hilariously easy farming method is discovered. Until then I will keep wondering what it's like to have Volus running around to protect me while melting enemies with a high level Particle Rifle as a Turian Ghost.

the balance changes for the last few weeks/months have been all buffs.

I'll admit, if you are a new player starting or have a semi-empty manifest, then yes, the game will be challenging. but it was like that for all of us at the start of the game too. I spent months on silver before I even attempted gold, and that was only when my claymore was at level X. it wasnt easy nor quick to achieve. it was challenging for the most part.

alot of gamers nowadays want to be spoonfed (not saying that about you) and instantly want to stomp gold to max out their URs. I maxed out the rares i used most playing silver. and back in the day we did not have level 4 consumables or gear. we have character cards that trolled the store to no end

The real problem with this game is the store. The lack of clear progression in equipment makes unlocking the things you want/need really drawn out and mind numbing. You said you didn't attempt gold until you got your Claymore to X. For some people that can be really quick, like myself (it was one of my first gold items to be maxed), for others it might not even happen at all (none of my friends have a Claymore beyond V).

Then when all the DLC items are packed on top we have an even harder time trying to get what we want/need to play better. For instance, I have a friend who constantly got Ultra Rare snipers, but he hates sniping and Infiltrators. The only Infiltrator he plays is the Shadow. Meanwhile I have a friend that did nothing but snipe in the demo with a Salarian Infiltrator and Viper/Widow, and he hasn't unlocked the Salarian Infiltrator, his Widow is only a level IV, he only has a level II Valiant and his only Ultra Rare sniper is a Javelin I.

I do want to be spoonfed to a certain degree. I want a clear unlock progression like Battlefield 3, or at least a store where you can purchase exactly what you want, when you want, like Battlefield Bad Company. If you prefer to play as an "In-your-face Shotgunner" you would want a Soldier/Infiltrator and a good shotgun. Getting endless assault rifles, SMGs, sniper rail amps, pistol gears, etc. don't help in the slightest. I know a lot of people would say to just use the Assault Rifles, or pistols, or whatever, but the game gives you the variety of weapons/classes/gear to so you can play the way you want.

[Titus Thongger]

sc_ajk29 wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

We also have super weapons now. In the beginning everyone wanted a BW. Now it is is the harrier. BW dps before the bw buff was ~600. The harrier dps is ~1200. Not to mention gear, consumables, equipment, OP characters, etc. The game is easier now.


The problem is people want to jump to platinum right away. They should work their way up...

exactly. we have the reegar. we have the acolyte. we have the harrier. we have grenade capacity gear. we have ARC MOTHER******* GRENADES. We have the typhoon. we have high velocity barrels. we have the indra.  we have the raider shotgun. we have a buffed wraith. we have a buffed black widow. we have NERFED shield gate.

the game is easier than it was at release. on release gold was nigh-impossible for a lot of people.

if people are wiping on gold? go back to silver. wipe on silver? go back to bronze.

I will only admit the game is unplayable in the unlikely event that veteran gold players start consistently wiping on bronze, which I very much doubt it will.

Apparently you haven't been reading the forums at all lately.

Nice "You're a poopyhead! Neener-neener-neener!" posts though.

yeah I do have a job I only surf these forums in between projects. all i read is people whining about the difficulty.

and you're putting words in my mouth. how mature

[Titus Thongger]

Magicman10893 wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

Magicman10893 wrote...

....And how does that help when you can't earn enough credits to unlock them? Do you know how long it took for me to get a character with Arc Grenades? Not until after Earth was released and I got a Demolisher, and I still don't have a Paladin or Slayer. I've only unlocked the Acolyte, like once, and that was extremely recently and I haven't even gotten to use it yet. I did manage to get a Harrier through sheer luck and hours farming FBWGG, and out of all my friends that play this game (around 10), only one other person has it. Only two of those friends has an Indra and one doesn't even snipe at all. Only three of us have a Reegar and the highest leveled one is at about 4. Only 3 of us has any kind of grenade capacity gear and the highest bonus any of us have is +2. I'm the only one with a Wraith, and it's still pretty bad because it is only like a level 4. Only three of us have a Black Widow, and the highest level one is a level 2. None of my friends have a Raider that I know of. Most of my friends don't have a Kroguard, any Batarian, any Vorcha, Fury, Destroyer, Demolisher or any other super powered character, weapon or gear. The highest level gear any of my friends have is a level 4. I still have friends that are missing kits from the vanilla game.

With the enemies being buffed through patches and balance updates, nerfs to weapons and powers,  and the (for the most part) miniscule buffs to players, players like us can barely keep up. We don't have the skill or equipment to unlock all the vanilla weapons/kits and stockpile the credits necessary to get the new content in under a hour of release. We don't get to see these things that make the game easy. We just get crushed under the weight of so much new content that we can't make a proper foothold into clearing the manifest. Now with the layout change to White I don't think we ever will until the next hilariously easy farming method is discovered. Until then I will keep wondering what it's like to have Volus running around to protect me while melting enemies with a high level Particle Rifle as a Turian Ghost.

the balance changes for the last few weeks/months have been all buffs.

I'll admit, if you are a new player starting or have a semi-empty manifest, then yes, the game will be challenging. but it was like that for all of us at the start of the game too. I spent months on silver before I even attempted gold, and that was only when my claymore was at level X. it wasnt easy nor quick to achieve. it was challenging for the most part.

alot of gamers nowadays want to be spoonfed (not saying that about you) and instantly want to stomp gold to max out their URs. I maxed out the rares i used most playing silver. and back in the day we did not have level 4 consumables or gear. we have character cards that trolled the store to no end

The real problem with this game is the store. The lack of clear progression in equipment makes unlocking the things you want/need really drawn out and mind numbing. You said you didn't attempt gold until you got your Claymore to X. For some people that can be really quick, like myself (it was one of my first gold items to be maxed), for others it might not even happen at all (none of my friends have a Claymore beyond V).

Then when all the DLC items are packed on top we have an even harder time trying to get what we want/need to play better. For instance, I have a friend who constantly got Ultra Rare snipers, but he hates sniping and Infiltrators. The only Infiltrator he plays is the Shadow. Meanwhile I have a friend that did nothing but snipe in the demo with a Salarian Infiltrator and Viper/Widow, and he hasn't unlocked the Salarian Infiltrator, his Widow is only a level IV, he only has a level II Valiant and his only Ultra Rare sniper is a Javelin I.

I do want to be spoonfed to a certain degree. I want a clear unlock progression like Battlefield 3, or at least a store where you can purchase exactly what you want, when you want, like Battlefield Bad Company. If you prefer to play as an "In-your-face Shotgunner" you would want a Soldier/Infiltrator and a good shotgun. Getting endless assault rifles, SMGs, sniper rail amps, pistol gears, etc. don't help in the slightest. I know a lot of people would say to just use the Assault Rifles, or pistols, or whatever, but the game gives you the variety of weapons/classes/gear to so you can play the way you want.

yes the store does suck. it really does. for the LONGEST time, my highest URs were the indra at 5 and javelin at 5. no harrier. a pre-buff PPR 3. a saber which I wasnt very good at using. a wraith 1 (which pre-buff, was garbage). It would be nice if said progression-style in battlefield 3 was implemented though.

I was a terrible sniper at the start, but seeing as some of my most powerful weapons were snipers, I forced myself to learn how to use the darn javelin. it's part of the challenge, and the fun of the game. In fact, the rares that I maxed out first were
- the krysae that was nerfed to oblivion
- the geth pulse rifle (oh why)
- the geth SMG (OH GOD WHY)

so yes, I feel your pain. it's incredibly frustrating. I just try not to think about my manifest (easy for me to say now i know) when it looked like crap and just focused on having fun instead.

[VIC villanous]

I think the game has gotten a new degree of difficulty, but that is keeping the game fresh in my eyes. I like it but I'm the type of person that enjoyed ninja gaiden black. I do however hate the store system and the fact that volus' are UR.

[Titus Thongger]

VIC villanous wrote...

I think the game has gotten a new degree of difficulty, but that is keeping the game fresh in my eyes. I like it but I'm the type of person that enjoyed ninja gaiden black. I do however hate the store system and the fact that volus' are UR.

volus UR =/= weapon URs. so they dont get in the way of normal URs

[Magicman10893]

Titus Thongger wrote...

yes the store does suck. it really does. for the LONGEST time, my highest URs were the indra at 5 and javelin at 5. no harrier. a pre-buff PPR 3. a saber which I wasnt very good at using. a wraith 1 (which pre-buff, was garbage). It would be nice if said progression-style in battlefield 3 was implemented though.

I was a terrible sniper at the start, but seeing as some of my most powerful weapons were snipers, I forced myself to learn how to use the darn javelin. it's part of the challenge, and the fun of the game. In fact, the rares that I maxed out first were
- the krysae that was nerfed to oblivion
- the geth pulse rifle (oh why)
- the geth SMG (OH GOD WHY)

so yes, I feel your pain. it's incredibly frustrating. I just try not to think about my manifest (easy for me to say now i know) when it looked like crap and just focused on having fun instead.

I know. I try to focus on fun, but sometimes I wish I would start unlocking characters I don't have yet before unlocking appearance options for the ones I have. For the longest time I wanted to just try out the Ballistic Blades but couldn't get a Batarian Soldier. I didn't get a BatSol until literally the weekend before the Earth DLC was released. At least I can buy the weapons in Singleplayer and hope that the DLC weapons/mods will come out as singleplayer DLC like the Firefight Pack or bigger expansions like Leviathan or Omega, but the powers and races are most likely out of the question.

[Krantzstone]

Magicman10893 wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

We also have super weapons now. In the beginning everyone wanted a BW. Now it is is the harrier. BW dps before the bw buff was ~600. The harrier dps is ~1200. Not to mention gear, consumables, equipment, OP characters, etc. The game is easier now.


The problem is people want to jump to platinum right away. They should work their way up...

exactly. we have the reegar. we have the acolyte. we have the harrier. we have grenade capacity gear. we have ARC MOTHER******* GRENADES. We have the typhoon. we have high velocity barrels. we have the indra.  we have the raider shotgun. we have a buffed wraith. we have a buffed black widow. we have NERFED shield gate.

the game is easier than it was at release. on release gold was nigh-impossible for a lot of people.

if people are wiping on gold? go back to silver. wipe on silver? go back to bronze.

I will only admit the game is unplayable in the unlikely event that veteran gold players start consistently wiping on bronze, which I very much doubt it will.

....And how does that help when you can't earn enough credits to unlock them? Do you know how long it took for me to get a character with Arc Grenades? Not until after Earth was released and I got a Demolisher, and I still don't have a Paladin or Slayer. I've only unlocked the Acolyte, like once, and that was extremely recently and I haven't even gotten to use it yet. I did manage to get a Harrier through sheer luck and hours farming FBWGG, and out of all my friends that play this game (around 10), only one other person has it. Only two of those friends has an Indra and one doesn't even snipe at all. Only three of us have a Reegar and the highest leveled one is at about 4. Only 3 of us has any kind of grenade capacity gear and the highest bonus any of us have is +2. I'm the only one with a Wraith, and it's still pretty bad because it is only like a level 4. Only three of us have a Black Widow, and the highest level one is a level 2. None of my friends have a Raider that I know of. Most of my friends don't have a Kroguard, any Batarian, any Vorcha, Fury, Destroyer, Demolisher or any other super powered character, weapon or gear. The highest level gear any of my friends have is a level 4. I still have friends that are missing kits from the vanilla game.

With the enemies being buffed through patches and balance updates, nerfs to weapons and powers,  and the (for the most part) miniscule buffs to players, players like us can barely keep up. We don't have the skill or equipment to unlock all the vanilla weapons/kits and stockpile the credits necessary to get the new content in under a hour of release. We don't get to see these things that make the game easy. We just get crushed under the weight of so much new content that we can't make a proper foothold into clearing the manifest. Now with the layout change to White I don't think we ever will until the next hilariously easy farming method is discovered. Until then I will keep wondering what it's like to have Volus running around to protect me while melting enemies with a high level Particle Rifle as a Turian Ghost.

THIS.


My complaint about the difficulty isn't exactly related to Retaliation (except for the Dragoons and Geth Bombers), but rather the game has always rewarded the hardcore gamers at the expense of newbies.  I've stated it many times in various threads: it just doesn't make sense to set up a game so that it's harder when you first start out than it is as you get better at the game.

I think the people who don't really notice or care whether there was an increase in difficulty with the new DLC are people who've forgotten what it was like to start out new in the game, without knowing or having anything.  For the new people, even the game prior to Retaliation was difficult when first starting out, and having more and more DLC items to unlock means a wider spread of possibilities in terms of unlocks every time you play the RNG.  That means it will take longer to keep levelling up any one weapon because the likelihood of getting the same weapon unlock decreases as more and more weapons are put into the game.  Your likelihood of getting URs may remain the same, but the more URs there are to unlock, the more likely you'll get a different UR unlock every time you buy a PSP, which means you'll have a whole bunch of different weapons at level I, than having fewer URs but having them at V or VI.  And as many of us know, URs aren't necessarily even as good as something Rare or even Uncommon, especially when they're still only at I.  In the early days before DLC, we didn't have this problem because we only had a limited number of URs to unlock, so every time we had a chance to unlock an UR, it was more likely to be one we had already unlocked before, thus making levelling weapons faster.

This is why I suggest that players be given the option to simply purchase weapons and other items outright with real money cash, and level them up the same way, as an alternative to buying BW points to buy PSPs, or trying to earn the credits solely through playing the game.  Just to keep things challenging, purchasing weapons and such outright should be the most expensive option, so you really have to think about whether you think it's worth your money to do it, but not so expensive that people won't be willing to spend cash to buy it if they really don't have the time to play so often to save up credits to roll them bones in the RNG store.  Like the Battlefield 3 shortcut bundle, it will mostly be an option for those who don't have a lot of time to play but still want to have fun playing with the newest DLC.  It can also be good for the newbie with some cash to burn who also likewise would like to get a jumpstart on their playing, rather than have to drudge through Bronze levels for weeks just in the hopes of unlocking better characters, weapons, gear, upgrades and carrying capacity.

If you think about it, it's the newbies who need max carry capacity for things like medigel: people who routinely fly through Gold solo without burning a single consumable, aren't the people who need 6/6 medigel.

People also forget how hard the game seemed at first when we first started, when we really didn't know much about the game.  For all that there are now a lot of tips, hints, tricks, tutorials, etc. posted on the internet and on BSN for the game, that doesn't change the fact that a newbie still lacks the kind of muscle memory and quick tactical thinking required for survival, even if they do spend hours researching builds, map layout, tactics, spawns, etc.  And starting off at level 1, with the starter characters, with level I starter weapons... it's daunting.

And the last thing I think this game needs is to make the game discouraging to new people, especially because multiplayer was not originally the aim of the ME franchise, and a lot of players got into the game specifically for the single player campaign, where you have a hell of a lot more advantages in terms of survival (the major one being the ability to pause the game in combat so you had all the time in the world to work out your tactics).  The multiplayer is a far cry from the single player, and I believe that is definitely one more thing that makes it hard for the newbie to get into multiplayer.

I honestly love the multiplayer, and I want nothing more than to see more new people try it out and get hooked like I was.  But that's made much harder when the difficulty level for newbies starting out is so high, while it gets increasingly easier the longer you play and the more you unlock.  It sets a high barrier of entry while making the endgame almost too easy for the veteran players who don't need the advantages that even more powerful weapons, unlocks, characters, etc. that come with constantly playing Platinum and raking in the credits.

Add to that the new units and new faction which are, at first, surprisingly tough, and tougher than the game was before Retaliation.  While most of that may be due to unfamiliarity, and I suspect most of the really good players have already adapted their builds, playstyles, tactics, etc. to quickly take out the new units that are the greatest threat to the team, it's important to keep in mind that many of these units were designed specifically to counter tactics that many veteran players have been using pretty much since the game was launched.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that, and like I said, I'm sure the better players will adapt and soon enough find them almost as easy as before Retaliation, but it leaves in the lurch all the players who weren't so great, who largely relied on foolproof (and some might argue, 'cheesy') tactics which were reliant on some of the game's quirks (if not outright exploits, tended to be things in the game that probably weren't designed to be that way).

Again, I don't have a problem with bug fixes (I wish it hadn't taken this long, because I'm sure part of the uproar was that fixing game bugs that had been in the game so long they might as well have been 'features', lulled the playerbase into a false sense of accomplishment from which they were rudely awakened), but I also don't think the lesser players would have had to resort to camping and farming on Gold if you could actually get a decent amount of credits commensurate to the amount of time spent actually playing a match (assuming you even got any credits and didn't get disconnected half way through Wave 10 ).  You can't leave in a glitch that makes certain maps easier, for that long, and then not expect people to take advantage of it, especially when there's such a difference in the amount of credit payout on Gold than Silver, and then also make it take so much longer to unlock things due to the vagaries of the RNG store.  That's just setting people up to maximize their credit-farming for the least amount of effort/difficulty.

I'm just saying: give newbies a break.  Throw them a bigger bone than the Starter Pack they get now: maybe even keep giving them newbie packs for a set duration (say X number of hours played in actual games on multiplayer, or X number of matches) until such time that most newbies will have reliably unlocked and levelled up a couple of half-decent weapons and characters, so that they too can have some fun with the more powerful, new stuff, which will ultimately help keep them excited about the prospect of playing more and unlocking more, or tantalize them with the temptation to buy BW points to try and unlock other stuff.

As it stands, the have so much to learn, so much to unlock, so many Bronze games just to drudge through just to learn the ropes, not to mention save up to buy packs that might actually unlock something worthwhile or something they might want to use... it can be incredibly daunting, and possibly too daunting to bother to keep playing, when there are plenty of other games out there which are designed to have a low barrier to entry, but a high barrier to mastery so that as you get better at the game, you continue to be challenged as opposed to being rewarded with stuff that only makes the game easier for you.

It's easy to say 'oh, well when I started at launch, no one knew anything and it was hard for all of us, so it should be hard for the new people starting now'... but that doesn't solve the problem of trying to attract new players to the multiplayer as inevitably the old hands gradually drop out and move on to other games that have or are about to come out.  It wasn't a big deal when the game was still relatively new, and there weren't other games vying for players' time, attention and wallets.  But now, it's more important than ever for the sake of keeping the multiplayer playerbase numbers up to attract new people as well as keeping old players interested, because without sufficient playerbase, EA _will_ shutdown the servers because it's simply not cost-effective to keep the servers running for a few hundred die hard fans, especially when newer EA titles with multiplayer could be running on those same servers, using up the same resources.

So yes, it does matter, even to non-newbies, to push to make the game a little easier for newbies, and that's why I make the case for doing more to make it as easy as possible to get new players hooked and excited to play the game.

The new DLC, the new units, faction, difficulty: for older, experienced, better players?  It's not a big deal, it's a bit of grumbling about having to readjust everything to take all these new things into account (including the bug fixes which effectively killed some old farming tactics).

But for newbies, because the new DLC was designed specifically to make the game more challenging to older, more experienced players, the side-effect of that was to make it even harder for newbies when it was hard already.  And something definitely has to be done about that.

Ideally, I'd love to see some sort of training setting, where newbies can learn the ropes within the safety of a training area where they're free to make all the mistakes they need to make to learn and become better, where they can try out new tactics and builds, to give them valuable in-game combat experience in multiplayer, and maybe also earn some consumables, exp and credits as well, before being forced to step into the real multiplayer battlefield.

Modifié par Krantzstone, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:09 .

[Titus Thongger]

Krantzstone wrote...

Magicman10893 wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

The game was nowhere near this hard on release.

We also have super weapons now. In the beginning everyone wanted a BW. Now it is is the harrier. BW dps before the bw buff was ~600. The harrier dps is ~1200. Not to mention gear, consumables, equipment, OP characters, etc. The game is easier now.


The problem is people want to jump to platinum right away. They should work their way up...

exactly. we have the reegar. we have the acolyte. we have the harrier. we have grenade capacity gear. we have ARC MOTHER******* GRENADES. We have the typhoon. we have high velocity barrels. we have the indra.  we have the raider shotgun. we have a buffed wraith. we have a buffed black widow. we have NERFED shield gate.

the game is easier than it was at release. on release gold was nigh-impossible for a lot of people.

if people are wiping on gold? go back to silver. wipe on silver? go back to bronze.

I will only admit the game is unplayable in the unlikely event that veteran gold players start consistently wiping on bronze, which I very much doubt it will.

....And how does that help when you can't earn enough credits to unlock them? Do you know how long it took for me to get a character with Arc Grenades? Not until after Earth was released and I got a Demolisher, and I still don't have a Paladin or Slayer. I've only unlocked the Acolyte, like once, and that was extremely recently and I haven't even gotten to use it yet. I did manage to get a Harrier through sheer luck and hours farming FBWGG, and out of all my friends that play this game (around 10), only one other person has it. Only two of those friends has an Indra and one doesn't even snipe at all. Only three of us have a Reegar and the highest leveled one is at about 4. Only 3 of us has any kind of grenade capacity gear and the highest bonus any of us have is +2. I'm the only one with a Wraith, and it's still pretty bad because it is only like a level 4. Only three of us have a Black Widow, and the highest level one is a level 2. None of my friends have a Raider that I know of. Most of my friends don't have a Kroguard, any Batarian, any Vorcha, Fury, Destroyer, Demolisher or any other super powered character, weapon or gear. The highest level gear any of my friends have is a level 4. I still have friends that are missing kits from the vanilla game.

With the enemies being buffed through patches and balance updates, nerfs to weapons and powers,  and the (for the most part) miniscule buffs to players, players like us can barely keep up. We don't have the skill or equipment to unlock all the vanilla weapons/kits and stockpile the credits necessary to get the new content in under a hour of release. We don't get to see these things that make the game easy. We just get crushed under the weight of so much new content that we can't make a proper foothold into clearing the manifest. Now with the layout change to White I don't think we ever will until the next hilariously easy farming method is discovered. Until then I will keep wondering what it's like to have Volus running around to protect me while melting enemies with a high level Particle Rifle as a Turian Ghost.

THIS.


My complaint about the difficulty isn't exactly related to Retaliation (except for the Dragoons and Geth Bombers), but rather the game has always rewarded the hardcore gamers at the expense of newbies.  I've stated it many times in various threads: it just doesn't make sense to set up a game so that it's harder when you first start out than it is as you get better at the game.

I think the people who don't really notice or care whether there was an increase in difficulty with the new DLC are people who've forgotten what it was like to start out new in the game, without knowing or having anything.  For the new people, even the game prior to Retaliation was difficult when first starting out, and having more and more DLC items to unlock means a wider spread of possibilities in terms of unlocks every time you play the RNG.  That means it will take longer to keep levelling up any one weapon because the likelihood of getting the same weapon unlock decreases as more and more weapons are put into the game.  Your likelihood of getting URs may remain the same, but the more URs there are to unlock, the more likely you'll get a different UR unlock every time you buy a PSP, which means you'll have a whole bunch of different weapons at level I, than having fewer URs but having them at V or VI.  And as many of us know, URs aren't necessarily even as good as something Rare or even Uncommon, especially when they're still only at I.  In the early days before DLC, we didn't have this problem because we only had a limited number of URs to unlock, so every time we had a chance to unlock an UR, it was more likely to be one we had already unlocked before, thus making levelling weapons faster.

This is why I suggest that players be given the option to simply purchase weapons and other items outright with real money cash, and level them up the same way, as an alternative to buying BW points to buy PSPs, or trying to earn the credits solely through playing the game.  Just to keep things challenging, purchasing weapons and such outright should be the most expensive option, so you really have to think about whether you think it's worth your money to do it, but not so expensive that people won't be willing to spend cash to buy it if they really don't have the time to play so often to save up credits to roll them bones in the RNG store.  Like the Battlefield 3 shortcut bundle, it will mostly be an option for those who don't have a lot of time to play but still want to have fun playing with the newest DLC.  It can also be good for the newbie with some cash to burn who also likewise would like to get a jumpstart on their playing, rather than have to drudge through Bronze levels for weeks just in the hopes of unlocking better characters, weapons, gear, upgrades and carrying capacity.

If you think about it, it's the newbies who need max carry capacity for things like medigel: people who routinely fly through Gold solo without burning a single consumable, aren't the people who need 6/6 medigel.

People also forget how hard the game seemed at first when we first started, when we really didn't know much about the game.  For all that there are now a lot of tips, hints, tricks, tutorials, etc. posted on the internet and on BSN for the game, that doesn't change the fact that a newbie still lacks the kind of muscle memory and quick tactical thinking required for survival, even if they do spend hours researching builds, map layout, tactics, spawns, etc.  And starting off at level 1, with the starter characters, with level I starter weapons... it's daunting.

And the last thing I think this game needs is to make the game discouraging to new people, especially because multiplayer was not originally the aim of the ME franchise, and a lot of players got into the game specifically for the single player campaign, where you have a hell of a lot more advantages in terms of survival (the major one being the ability to pause the game in combat so you had all the time in the world to work out your tactics).  The multiplayer is a far cry from the single player, and I believe that is definitely one more thing that makes it hard for the newbie to get into multiplayer.

I honestly love the multiplayer, and I want nothing more than to see more new people try it out and get hooked like I was.  But that's made much harder when the difficulty level for newbies starting out is so high, while it gets increasingly easier the longer you play and the more you unlock.  It sets a high barrier of entry while making the endgame almost too easy for the veteran players who don't need the advantages that even more powerful weapons, unlocks, characters, etc. that come with constantly playing Platinum and raking in the credits.

Add to that the new units and new faction which are, at first, surprisingly tough, and tougher than the game was before Retaliation.  While most of that may be due to unfamiliarity, and I suspect most of the really good players have already adapted their builds, playstyles, tactics, etc. to quickly take out the new units that are the greatest threat to the team, it's important to keep in mind that many of these units were designed specifically to counter tactics that many veteran players have been using pretty much since the game was launched.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that, and like I said, I'm sure the better players will adapt and soon enough find them almost as easy as before Retaliation, but it leaves in the lurch all the players who weren't so great, who largely relied on foolproof (and some might argue, 'cheesy') tactics which were reliant on some of the game's quirks (if not outright exploits, tended to be things in the game that probably weren't designed to be that way).

Again, I don't have a problem with bug fixes (I wish it hadn't taken this long, because I'm sure part of the uproar was that fixing game bugs that had been in the game so long they might as well have been 'features', lulled the playerbase into a false sense of accomplishment from which they were rudely awakened), but I also don't think the lesser players would have had to resort to camping and farming on Gold if you could actually get a decent amount of credits commensurate to the amount of time spent actually playing a match (assuming you even got any credits and didn't get disconnected half way through Wave 10 ).  You can't leave in a glitch that makes certain maps easier, for that long, and then not expect people to take advantage of it, especially when there's such a difference in the amount of credit payout on Gold than Silver, and then also make it take so much longer to unlock things due to the vagaries of the RNG store.  That's just setting people up to maximize their credit-farming for the least amount of effort/difficulty.

I'm just saying: give newbies a break.  Throw them a bigger bone than the Starter Pack they get now: maybe even keep giving them newbie packs for a set duration (say X number of hours played in actual games on multiplayer, or X number of matches) until such time that most newbies will have reliably unlocked and levelled up a couple of half-decent weapons and characters, so that they too can have some fun with the more powerful, new stuff, which will ultimately help keep them excited about the prospect of playing more and unlocking more, or tantalize them with the temptation to buy BW points to try and unlock other stuff.

As it stands, the have so much to learn, so much to unlock, so many Bronze games just to drudge through just to learn the ropes, not to mention save up to buy packs that might actually unlock something worthwhile or something they might want to use... it can be incredibly daunting, and possibly too daunting to bother to keep playing, when there are plenty of other games out there which are designed to have a low barrier to entry, but a high barrier to mastery so that as you get better at the game, you continue to be challenged as opposed to being rewarded with stuff that only makes the game easier for you.

It's easy to say 'oh, well when I started at launch, no one knew anything and it was hard for all of us, so it should be hard for the new people starting now'... but that doesn't solve the problem of trying to attract new players to the multiplayer as inevitably the old hands gradually drop out and move on to other games that have or are about to come out.  It wasn't a big deal when the game was still relatively new, and there weren't other games vying for players' time, attention and wallets.  But now, it's more important than ever for the sake of keeping the multiplayer playerbase numbers up to attract new people as well as keeping old players interested, because without sufficient playerbase, EA _will_ shutdown the servers because it's simply not cost-effective to keep the servers running for a few hundred die hard fans, especially when newer EA titles with multiplayer could be running on those same servers, using up the same resources.

So yes, it does matter, even to non-newbies, to push to make the game a little easier for newbies, and that's why I make the case for doing more to make it as easy as possible to get new players hooked and excited to play the game.

The new DLC, the new units, faction, difficulty: for older, experienced, better players?  It's not a big deal, it's a bit of grumbling about having to readjust everything to take all these new things into account (including the bug fixes which effectively killed some old farming tactics).

But for newbies, because the new DLC was designed specifically to make the game more challenging to older, more experienced players, the side-effect of that was to make it even harder for newbies when it was hard already.  And something definitely has to be done about that.

Ideally, I'd love to see some sort of training setting, where newbies can learn the ropes within the safety of a training area where they're free to make all the mistakes they need to make to learn and become better, where they can try out new tactics and builds, to give them valuable in-game combat experience in multiplayer, and maybe also earn some consumables, exp and credits as well, before being forced to step into the real multiplayer battlefield.

quite a wall of text but yes I do definately agree with all your points. i dont even want to imagine the agony of trying to spice up your manifest if you were to start the game today.

I would have liked an offline training mode, but seeing as we dont have that, there is bronze. what is most important is finding people to play with. a good group can go such a long way in making your gaming experiance an enjoyable one. my tolerance and patience for PuGs has really gone down in recent weeks (side effect of starting work I guess) but even having 1 wingman watching your back and who knows how you play makes a world of difference. and that's what BSN is for, finding teammates who can do just that

[staindgrey]

The hyperbole has to stop or this discussion is going nowhere.

Yes, the difficulty changed. Anybody saying it hasn't is either insanely good at this game to the point that they can't notice a difficulty spike, or they're just being elitist for the small moment of pleasure derived from sounding better than someone else. But the people who are acting as though it's an impossible difficulty because of the changes are just as much at fault.

We need to find a good middle ground. We can't keep getting better and better gear without enemies being bumped up to accommodate. But we also have to worry about losing the potential interest of new players. Can you imagine being the unlucky soul trying to jump in to ME3 MP at *this* point, with no upgraded equipment, weapons or anything? All while trying to simply learn the in's and out's of the game? It'd be damn near impossible.

Both sides of the argument have valid points. Let's be civil about it and try to come to a conclusion that'll help Bioware adjust our game, hm?