781 réponses à ce sujet

[Kel Riever]

Han Shot First wrote...

The message they're trying to convey would be 'Look this dlc is the best selling DLC ever! Everyone loves us!'. Remember the ending was a huge controversy (still is if you ask me) and they definitely didn't come out of it unscathed, no matter what EA's PR machine would have us believe.

I think they came out of it unscathed. Consider that the ending controversy isn't affecting their bottom line at all. Leviathan was their best selling ME DLC to date. Other than getting the EC, Retake is looking fairly inconsequential.

Did you even read my post?  Really....

[Han Shot First]

Kel Riever wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The message they're trying to convey would be 'Look this dlc is the best selling DLC ever! Everyone loves us!'. Remember the ending was a huge controversy (still is if you ask me) and they definitely didn't come out of it unscathed, no matter what EA's PR machine would have us believe.

I think they came out of it unscathed. Consider that the ending controversy isn't affecting their bottom line at all. Leviathan was their best selling ME DLC to date. Other than getting the EC, Retake is looking fairly inconsequential.

Did you even read my post?  Really....

I did, and you are wrong.

Bioware came out of it unscathed. If they didn't, Leviathan would have taken a hit in sales. That hasn't happened.
You contend that Leviathan didn't sell as well as Bioware claims. I say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that is something that you lack. The biggest clue that Leviathan sold well is that Bioware is moving forward with Omega. If Leviathan was a flop Bioware and EA would not be working on DLC that was also going to end up taking a loss.

That isn't to say that the entire ME3 ending conroversy is meaningless. If DA3 turns out to be a major dissapointment the cumulative effects of multiple products being released that don't meet expectations might start to affect future sales. If DA3 is a hit the ending controversy of ME3 will hardly be a blip on the radar. There are already signs that the fans are moving on in regards to the ending controversy.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:09 .

[Kel Riever]

I can't believe you read my post. Based on what you said. Wrong is a statement of opinion, fine. But what isn't wrong is you have no idea how well BioWare did. You might be right, you might be wrong. But you have no idea other than what BioWare told you themselves. That's a fact, unless you want to point me to some verifiable source of sales info not coming from BioWare. Now, if you believe them, fine. I don't and it isn't some outrageous thing that I don't either. In fact, it would be common practice in the business world to not take corporate numbers at face value.

[Iakus]

Han Shot First wrote...

I did, and you are wrong.

Bioware came out of it unscathed. If they didn't, Leviathan would have taken a hit in sales. That hasn't happened.
You contend that Leviathan didn't sell as well as Bioware claims. I say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that is something that you lack. The biggest clue that Leviathan sold well is that Bioware is moving forward with Omega. If Leviathan was a flop Bioware and EA would not be working on DLC that was also going to end up taking a loss.

That isn't to say that the entire ME3 ending conroversy is meaningless. If DA3 turns out to be a major dissapointment the cumulative effects of multiple products being released that don't meet expectations might start to affect future sales. If DA3 is a hit the ending controversy of ME3 will hardly be a blip on the radar. There are already signs that the fans are moving on in regards to the ending controversy.

First, I believe a developer said even before Leviathan came out that there would be more SP dlc.  The idea that they'd scrap it if Leviathan did poorly was a misunderstanding (heck, even DA2 got two dlcs)

Second, while I can't prove it, I suspect that Leviathan sales were bolstered by the rumor that it would affect the endings. 

As for Bioware, itself, their reputation took a big hit.  DA3 will be watched very closely by, well, everyone.  They can still recover, but trust has been lost.  And it hasn't helped that they seemed to have "written off the 47%"

[Bourne Endeavor]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I must admit it helped, but it hardly restored my faith. Kinda like a band-aid for a broken ankle, know what I mean?

Still, props for Bioware for at least doing SOMETHING.

Hey, Cheez is back. Been too long since you've lurked here.

In any case, we agree. BioWare has been regulated to the "rent first" category. Even games I particularly like will suffer from restricted anticipation. I'd rather not get too invest only for this to happen again. Granted, I don't think even EA wants to test the ire of this fanbase.

[MassPredator]

When all the DLC is out, and their finish with me3 iam gonna evaluate if my fatih (blind faith) in Bioware is restored, for now, i just wait.

[Kel Riever]

Let me help Han Shot First, and anyone else who doesn't understand there is a history of companies not reporting honest numbers, and about 100 years of legistlation to try to get them to do a better job about it:

http://highered.mcgr..._standards.html

We do not live in a world where people who take corporations at face value have a history of not being screwed over by them.  So, please, stop with the naivety.  There's a difference between liking a company or product and then taking everything they say for granted.

[Joryn01]

So much negativity here. OP I was happy with the EC as well my friend. Don't let the Negative Nancys get you down.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Han Shot First wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The message they're trying to convey would be 'Look this dlc is the best selling DLC ever! Everyone loves us!'. Remember the ending was a huge controversy (still is if you ask me) and they definitely didn't come out of it unscathed, no matter what EA's PR machine would have us believe.

I think they came out of it unscathed. Consider that the ending controversy isn't affecting their bottom line at all. Leviathan was their best selling ME DLC to date. Other than getting the EC, Retake is looking fairly inconsequential.

Did you even read my post?  Really....

I did, and you are wrong.

Bioware came out of it unscathed. If they didn't, Leviathan would have taken a hit in sales. That hasn't happened.
You contend that Leviathan didn't sell as well as Bioware claims. I say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that is something that you lack. The biggest clue that Leviathan sold well is that Bioware is moving forward with Omega. If Leviathan was a flop Bioware and EA would not be working on DLC that was also going to end up taking a loss.

That isn't to say that the entire ME3 ending conroversy is meaningless. If DA3 turns out to be a major dissapointment the cumulative effects of multiple products being released that don't meet expectations might start to affect future sales. If DA3 is a hit the ending controversy of ME3 will hardly be a blip on the radar. There are already signs that the fans are moving on in regards to the ending controversy.

Dragon Age 2's DLC was meant with decent appraisal, notably due to Felicia Day being a gaming celebrity of sorts but the story was worth a purchase. DLC is a poor indication, as the low price often allows curiosity to win out. The fact Leviathan was decent only helps to justify this.

The defining moment comes when BioWare demands full price for a new title, or a squeal, considering DA3 slated for their next release. Be mindful people have not gotten the perceived flaws of DA2 nor will they ignore ME3's controversial conclusion. It certainly does not help, DA2 sold less than its predecessor.

Once upon a time, Square Enix dominated the RPG genre. Now, they are one or two back titles away from bankruptcy. While I doubt BioWare is in that dire a scenario, or even necessarily close. Things can change in but an instant.

[Han Shot First]

Kel Riever wrote...

Let me help Han Shot First, and anyone else who doesn't understand there is a history of companies not reporting honest numbers, and about 100 years of legistlation to try to get them to do a better job about it:

Let me help you and help end tinfoil hat wearing everywhere:

Omega wouldn't be in production if Leviathan wasn't successful. The success of DLC determines whether or not more DLC will be released. Bioware isn't releasing DLC soley because they've got more stories to tell in the universe. They are releasing DLC because there is demand for it among the fanbase, and it is because it is generating a profit. They are a business first and foremost.

You are choosing not to believe that Leviathan was profitable, despite evidence to the contrary, simply because you don't like the ending to Mass Effect 3. You are choosing to believe it isn't profitable because that is what you want to believe.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:38 .

[Kel Riever]

You are so funny, Han. I am clear you don't really want to have a conversation. There's a lot of that in the forum.

As far as tin foil hats go, I'll stop trying to talk to you in a make sense way and say, takes one to know one, buddy. It is so obvious that Omega could be in production whether Leviathan was successful or not, just based on whether BioWare thought it was a worthwhile investment or not. And they probably aren't going to do that on just looking at Leviathan DLC sales. That point has already been brought up, ad nauseum, by other posters on the forum. But good luck with your own interpretation of how the business world works. Again, personally, I'd recommend coming up with some outside sources for how the business world works other than just the way you think, like starting with that link I gave you. But if you just want to dwell in it inside only your own head, I am not surprised why you don't look outside of a biased source of information for input, is all I am sayin...

[Robhuzz]

Dragon Age 2's DLC was meant with decent appraisal, notably due to Felicia Day being a gaming celebrity of sorts but the story was worth a purchase. DLC is a poor indication, as the low price often allows curiosity to win out. The fact Leviathan was decent only helps to justify this.

The defining moment comes when BioWare demands full price for a new title, or a squeal, considering DA3 slated for their next release. Be mindful people have not gotten the perceived flaws of DA2 nor will they ignore ME3's controversial conclusion. It certainly does not help, DA2 sold less than its predecessor.

Once upon a time, Square Enix dominated the RPG genre. Now, they are one or two back titles away from bankruptcy. While I doubt BioWare is in that dire a scenario, or even necessarily close. Things can change in but an instant.

Hard to say. BioWare's funds are EA's funds. The latter has been recording yearly net losses ranking into the millions for years. Last year EA recorded a net profit, ONLY because of ME3 being released just before the end of the financial year. This is part of the reason why I think it was corporate greed that made ME3 not nearly as good as it should've been. After all, recording another loss would've looked bad in front of shareholders and potential investors. But I digress. I'm really not sure how well they're doing financially. A few months ago I even read an article stating EA was for sale....

Modifié par Robhuzz, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:48 .

[Han Shot First]

Kel Riever wrote...

But good luck with your own interpretation of how the business world works. Again, personally, I'd recommend coming up with some outside sources for how the business world works other than just the way you think, like starting with that link I gave you.

It is a little thing called common sense.

If a company releases a product that is unsuccessful due to lack of demand among consumers, it isn't going to then respond to that loss by releasing a similar product that faces a similar lack of demand.

If Leviathan had been a commercial flop you wouldn't be seeing a retake Omega DLC.

For the record I have no emotional investment one way or the other in whether Bioware's DLC are successful. I didn't like the original endings to ME3, but the fact that Bioware is now working on the second single player story DLC for ME3, and has released multiple multiplayer DLC, is evidence that they are a generating a profit.

So for right now Bioware has escaped the ME3 ending controversy largely unscathed. (in part due to the EC)

That isn't to say that the controversy couldn't have more life breathed into it at some point. It all depends on how DA3 plays out. If it is largely a hit with the fanbase the ME3 ending controversy will be largely forgotten about, as the ME fanbase is already mostly moving on. If DA3 suffers from similar problems as DA2 or TOR, or has an ending controversy like ME3, then you might see the cumulative effects of these multiple dissapointments start to affect future sales. But for the moment I don't see it as having much of an affect on anything. It certainly hasn't hurt DLC sales.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:53 .

[Kel Riever]

Okay, Han, it may be common sense to you, but it isn't common sense to believe everything a company tells you when they have a vested interest in only delivering good news. Now, it also may be common sense that they wouldn't release a DLC if the previous DLC wasn't successfull, but I don't think it makes any less sense to assume (because that is what we're doing, isn't it?) that the DLCs might have been already planned together, or not based on the success of only one. Reasons I would use for that would be anything from having to plan it all together, to that one mistake is not a good enough reason to stop the production, etc.

Listen to what I am saying. I am saying you might be right. But really, you can't prove you are. I can't prove I am right either. Trusting what they say is your decision. To me, it hardly makes sense, but all that is just personal decisions. In the end, it is never going to be proved, because we live in the wonderful world of excuses and that is why companies benefit from hiding all their information. If, say, BioWare fails, I certainly would blame it on ME3. But anybody could make up any reason it failed, if it did, and the only people who would know the real reason would be the people at BioWare.

Since it is all conjecture, I will say this. If BioWare succeeds, from my point of view, it will be despite their horrendous approach to ME3 endings. It won't be because Leviathan sold or didn't, or Omega. And really, the only reason that matters is to each person. I don't blame the ending lovers for their opinion, though yeah, it seems pretty damn ludicrous to me. But I do blame people who say they don't like the endings, yet keep on buying stuff, then don't like the DLC they bought, then keep buying stuff...really, exactly what does that lead to? Rhetorical question, that last one....

[CronoDragoon]

squee365 wrote...

Healthcare isn't free dude. Someone pays for it one way or another. Thats not a good analogy. 

How's that relevant to the analogy?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:21 .

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

::image removed::


Sums up this thread quite nicely unfortunately...

Stay classy, man

Always have been so don't worry. When you guys are done fighting over a topic that has been beaten to death for 7 months then you guys can join me in my classy-ness.

[CronoDragoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

*snip*

Sums up this thread quite nicely unfortunately...

Never seen a truer image. Right-click ---> Save.

[vhulkv]

I had very high hopes for Mass Effect 3. All in all? It sucked. This game you just play errand boy for strangers or do small meaningless missions throughout the main story, few of them being memorable or seeming like "big" missions. Your squad is much smaller, fewer characters you actually care about, you can't choose WHO from previous games can fill previous squad slots, combat throughout the game (*except a few unique fights) feels dry and repetitive being filled with fighting the same enemies....On top of that your paragon/renegade decisions in the series don't mean a damn thing, leviathan DLC just gives you more personal knowledge but has no influence on the story, there was no boss battle of any kind in the last mission, aaaaannddd the endings were complete garbage thanks to the deadline for this game being bumped up and supposedly they had their budget cut by EA so they could fund that crap Star Wars game that nobody honestly enjoys. Extended Cut was just a desperate act to stop the fans from ripping off the heads of everyone at Bioware.

When your fans have protest pages up all over the internet, send in thousands of angry letters, have a kickstarter page to help you fund a new ending or new game entirely, and there's more than 5 petitions across the internet to get you to do something differently with your last game in what was meant to be an amazing trilogy....yeah, you messed up. That's not "loyalty to the fans" or "commitment to giving the community what they want", that's just Bioware thinking "Ohhhh sh%ttttt....we better give them an offering before they sacrifice us to their gods"

[blueumi]

if bioware would just admit that the ending is not as good as it could have been and that the fans who were upset before ec had done nothing wrong when they spoke out about how bad it was then ok but as long as bioware make out the original ending was fantastic and that it was art then no they did not make it up to the long time fans who loved this franchise

[CronoDragoon]

blueumi wrote...

if bioware would just admit that the ending is not as good as it could have been and that the fans who were upset before ec had done nothing wrong when they spoke out about how bad it was then ok but as long as bioware make out the original ending was fantastic and that it was art then no they did not make it up to the long time fans who loved this franchise

I sincerely doubt this would be sufficient for the majority of people still upset. Once BW admitted the ending was not all that great, a million threads would pop up:

"They KNOW it's bad BUT THEY STILL WON't FIX IT"

Not to mention this is a "have you stopped beating your wife?" type of scenario, which assumes BioWare must think a certain way about their endings. That type of thinking is quite fascist.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Oh boy...

"Clarity and closure" were the least of the endings' problems.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[squee365]

CronoDragoon wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Healthcare isn't free dude. Someone pays for it one way or another. Thats not a good analogy. 

How's that relevant to the analogy?

The extended cut was free, and you're saying it was the equivalent of thousands of dollars of surgery being botched. 

[Conniving_Eagle]

Wait... this was posted 17 hours ago. Why the hell would you start this other than to cause a flame war?