781 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Kel Riever wrote...

No, it is an ass pull when your source is the company. It is the same ass pull.

Seriously, go to the car salesman example I used. Do yourself a favor and take someone else more level headed with you when you buy a car if you have that attitude.
.

Excuse me, but if the car salesman says it's his best-selling car, and I have no evidence to the contrary nor reason to believe otherwise, then the level-headed thing to do would be believe him until opposing reasons manifest. I know being a cynic is hip and all but sometimes it is to your detriment.

[Kel Riever]

You call me a cynic? I'll call you naive.

Now that the name calling is done, simply apply logic here. What IS different about the car industry is that there are more than a few outside sources than the car salesman to refer to. Are they 100% reliable? No. But are they less biased. Duh, yeah. Unless that source is getting paid to advertise by the car company itself.

In videogame land, there isn't that source yet. All reviews, unless you want to wander Google and Youtube, are done by people who take money from the game companies they are reviewing. But that doesn't mean you go and take what some company fanboi says on face value. It simply means, the information doesn't matter.

And really, arguing for or against Leviathan DLC sales is farting in the wind. If they didn't sell well, you can't prove it. And if it did, you can only point to some biased source of information, which makes it just as illegitimate, if you are doing any useful critical thinking.

And it doesn't matter at all in making a justification for or against what you like about BioWare. So what if it didn't sell well? Does that mean you shouldn't like ME3? Or what if it did? Does that mean the ending doesn't suck? No, sorry. It is a pointless discussion and with no outside verification, adds nothing or takes nothing away from that arguement.

[Cathey]

I have no problem with the ending. All I wanted was some closure on certain things and the EC did exactly what I wanted. Though it should have been like that right from the start.

[CronoDragoon]

Kel Riever wrote...

You call me a cynic? I'll call you naive.

Now that the name calling is done, simply apply logic here.

Naive to follow imperfect reasons as opposed to no reasons at all. Right.

You are being a cynic here, since you are claiming that the source of information can completely invalidate said information. In other words, information is inherently useless unless it comes from an unbiased source. Which is simply not true. It is useful insofar as it provides more reason to believe something than the opposing side is providing. Disqualifying information automatically because of the source is simplistic, and will often lead to you missing relevant information.

And it doesn't matter at all in making a justification for or against
what you like about BioWare. So what if it didn't sell well? Does that
mean you shouldn't like ME3? Or what if it did? Does that mean the
ending doesn't suck? No, sorry. It is a pointless discussion and with
no outside verification, adds nothing or takes nothing away from that
arguement.

I am not arguing I like Leviathan or even BioWare. But someone definitively stated it didn't sell well with even less evidence than opposite statement, and I am trying to point that out.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:36 .

[Kel Riever]

Wow. You know what my revenge on you will be, CronoDragoon? It will be to keep on letting you think the way you do.

You need to learn the difference between being a skeptic and a cynic. But that would take a willing desire to consider an outside point of view. Personally, until you know the difference, you should stay away from commercials. They are dangerous for a person like you.

I say this all tongue and cheek.  I'll make fun of the endings until the end of time, and I won't be buying anything BioWare until they fix the endings..which we know will likely never happen.  I won't blame someone else for liking the endings.  But I won't support or detract from either arguement with some source of information from the company's mouth about sales.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:41 .

[MystEU]

Samuel Beckenbach wrote...

EC didnt change anything wat r u talking about it added a slideslow and farewells ending it still sucks donkeyballs

It concerns me that society has let somebody like you out of their cage. Way to absorb anything at all.

[CronoDragoon]

Kel Riever wrote...

Wow. You know what my revenge on you will be, CronoDragoon? It will be to keep on letting you think the way you do.

You need to learn the difference between being a skeptic and a cynic. But that would take a willing desire to consider an outside point of view. Personally, until you know the difference, you should stay away from commercials. They are dangerous for a person like you.

I say this all tongue and cheek.

Okay. For someone who does his own research on everything he buys, like me, there is never any danger in taking biased points of view into consideration. It's a matter of how it gels or conflicts with other information available. Biased information is only dangerous to those who take to heart the first viewpoint they hear.

In this case, I am not using Chris's statement to claim, definitively, that it sold well. But in the face of no evidence to the contrary believing it did not sell well and using the fact that BW stated it sold well as evidence for the opposite belief is dubious reasoning, at best.

Therefore, I am skeptical of biased information though I do not discount it. Discounting information based on the source is past skepticism.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:55 .

[Kel Riever]

Lucky me, I must seem like a vulture (wait, maybe I am!), in that everytime you post, CronoDragoon, I am right there.

Fine, to your point in the way you use it. Legitimate, and I don't think, now, I really am in that much disagreement with you.

But when I read Priestly's post, oh and a number of people who agreed or disagreed with it, I read it as basically a "Nanny nanny poop poop, we sold lots of Leviathan DLC." (or nanny nanny poop poop, you didn't). And most of it was used to either prop up how just smittingly awesome BioWare is, or how godawful they were.

Priestly telling me about some rules violation, or some announcement for a release, or doing some mod thing, is something I listen to because its his job. Chris Priestly telling me Leviathan sold well is like a Fiat salesman telling me his Fiat sells better than Honda Accords...and pointing to no verifiable source of information to back that up. In other words...farting in the wind.

[CronoDragoon]

Kel Riever wrote...

Lucky me, I must seem like a vulture (wait, maybe I am!), in that everytime you post, CronoDragoon, I am right there.

Fine, to your point in the way you use it. Legitimate, and I don't think, now, I really am in that much disagreement with you.

But when I read Priestly's post, oh and a number of people who agreed or disagreed with it, I read it as basically a "Nanny nanny poop poop, we sold lots of Leviathan DLC." (or nanny nanny poop poop, you didn't). And most of it was used to either prop up how just smittingly awesome BioWare is, or how godawful they were.

Priestly telling me about some rules violation, or some announcement for a release, or doing some mod thing, is something I listen to because its his job. Chris Priestly telling me Leviathan sold well is like a Fiat salesman telling me his Fiat sells better than Honda Accords...and pointing to no verifiable source of information to back that up. In other words...farting in the wind.

I mostly agree, although a better analogy would be Chris propping up a certain car at the expense of other cars from his same company, or better yet propping up that a new model is more popular than previous years of the same model or something. Ugh, analogy getting too specific. Anyway, I do tend to put more weight into his statement instead of him saying, "Leviathan was the best-selling DLC out of any game this year," which would be a much bolder statement and more eyebrow-raising for me.

That he would come in and say something in support of Leviathan after months of silence about the endings and the EC on these boards also inclines me to believe him. Additionally, this is two weeks after Leviathan release, at which point most of the sales decisions on the consumer's part are finished. Obviously if he had said pre-release that this would be their best-selling DLC to date I would be more inclined to think "marketing stuff." (No offense intended, Chris!)

Of course, this my own personal version of events and I don't think it proves it sold well by itself.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:32 .

[CronoDragoon]

Bah. double.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:24 .

[CronoDragoon]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

I have never stated my views as fact as what you did CronoDragoon.
I said it was an intelligent observation, based on rough estimates compared to other DLC's.

An infinitely amount more than what anyone here or even Bioware provided.
For reasons stated in my original post if it did do less than good then it would not show until after Omega was completed(It would show in them pulling the plug).
If there is a big DLC after Omega not changing the ending to ME3 then I was wrong.

They're money grabbers, I'm not sure if they would continue if they were just breaking even on sales.

The first post I quoted flat-out stated "it didn't sell well." Later you came up with the intelligent observation stuff while you were backtracking from the flock of mocking posts observing your complete lack of evidence.

Still waiting for you to back up your slander of Chris Priestly, by the way.

I do agree with you, however, that Omega is not a sign that Leviathan sold well. It would have been released regardless, in my opinion.

[CronoDragoon]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

I consider every post of mine an opinion unless I state otherwise.

That works for statements that are inherently opinionated, such as preference or statements of quality. When you are making a statement that is either demonstrably true or false in the empirical sense, then you do need to qualify it as your opinion.

I never use the word "fact" in an debate, you however did despite it not been a known "fact".

When you say "Chris Priestly is a liar look at his history" then that is not opinion. That is something either demonstrably true or false and hiding behind "your opinion" doesn't cut it. That is your slander, by the way.

There was no backtracking, you just intepreted my post as me presenting facts, I was not.

You were either backtracking or deficient in debate. That you want to say everything you post is relativistic and therefore you shouldn't have to qualify it hints at the latter.

And you are right, I did say we know it sold the best out of any ME DLC, so I will add a phrase: We know that BioWare has stated it is their best selling DLC to date.

Which is still more than what you have.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 octobre 2012 - 07:38 .

[Hexley UK]

Balz to the Wall wrote...

Like many of you I was dissatisfied with the original endings but after just finishing the extended cut my faith in Bioware is restored. I even started a second playthrough and can't wait for Omega to come. Thank you Bioware for your commitment to the fanbase and for the countless hours of enjoyment you have given me.

Thats nice for you...now go take your pills and drink your juice.

[revo76]

You can add more sauce to crap, but it wont change the contents of it. That's the relation between EC and ME3.

If i wanted to see some slideshows and little videos, i can simply check devianart. Hey, I can see better slideshows in devianart regarding the endings.

Modifié par revo76, 16 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[LilLino]

Cathey wrote...

I have no problem with the ending. All I wanted was some closure on certain things and the EC did exactly what I wanted. Though it should have been like that right from the start.

Yeah, I support that post.

I hated the original endings because they were both half-assed and overly depressing and basically: WTF JUST HAPENED?! Is Star Travel ruined for generations?! WTF IS THIS KID TALKING ABOUT?(Actually, both kids, Starkid and the other one in the 'epilogue')
Why the hell did they make their own awesome universe to DESTROY it with DARK AGE ending. And then this DLC bullcrap message like a kick in the balls, because they could!

EC fixed all that, gave us some additonal info and made destroy ending (which was my favourite anyway, I'll never let Reapers get ouf this alive) actually on par-with the others removing this millenia dark-age crap.

As for faith in Bioware? I surely have faith in their character creation skill as I'll probably remember people like Garrus or Wrex, Liara&Tali forever. As for their main-story script: medicore at best. 
And I hate their DLC policy, it's bull****. 5h of SP gameplay in the price of full game. Yeah, right.

So no, I'm by no means Bioware lover, CDP:R & Blizzard hold that throne for me.

Modifié par LilLino, 16 octobre 2012 - 08:08 .

[CronoDragoon]

LilLino wrote...
Yeah, I support that post.

I hated the original endings because they were both half-assed and overly depressing and basically: WTF JUST HAPENED?! Is Star Travel ruined for generations?! WTF IS THIS KID TALKING ABOUT?(Actually, both kids, Starkid and the other one in the 'epilogue')
Why the hell did they make their own awesome universe to DESTROY it with DARK AGE ending. And then this DLC bullcrap message like a kick in the balls, because they could!

EC fixed all that, gave us some additonal info and made destroy ending (which was my favourite anyway, I'll never let Reapers get ouf this alive) actually on par-with the others removing this millenia dark-age crap.

As for faith in Bioware? I surely have faith in their character creation skill as I'll probably remember people like Garrus or Wrex, Liara&Tali forever. As for their main-story script: medicore at best.

I agree, except I believe that with the exception of Torment, BW's main-story scripts have always been mediocre at best. Which I barely care about because their characters are so good but still.

[Hexley UK]

A dog poop became a dog poop with sprinkles....awesome.

[Shepard108278]

Hexley UK wrote...

A dog poop became a dog poop with sprinkles....awesome.

I don't agree. THe orriginal ending lacked a few things and it was fine in my eyes. THe EC fixed all minor issues I had (and then some.) I never lost faith.

[Shepard108278]

LilLino wrote...

Cathey wrote...

I have no problem with the ending. All I wanted was some closure on certain things and the EC did exactly what I wanted. Though it should have been like that right from the start.

Yeah, I support that post.

I hated the original endings because they were both half-assed and overly depressing and basically: WTF JUST HAPENED?! Is Star Travel ruined for generations?! WTF IS THIS KID TALKING ABOUT?(Actually, both kids, Starkid and the other one in the 'epilogue')
Why the hell did they make their own awesome universe to DESTROY it with DARK AGE ending. And then this DLC bullcrap message like a kick in the balls, because they could!

EC fixed all that, gave us some additonal info and made destroy ending (which was my favourite anyway, I'll never let Reapers get ouf this alive) actually on par-with the others removing this millenia dark-age crap.

While I had issues with the ending they were minor as I saw the ending as very open to interpretation which I had no issue with I do agree that the EC is miles better,

As for faith in Bioware? I surely have faith in their character creation skill as I'll probably remember people like Garrus or Wrex, Liara&Tali forever. As for their main-story script: medicore at best. 
And I hate their DLC policy, it's bull****. 5h of SP gameplay in the price of full game. Yeah, right.

So no, I'm by no means Bioware lover, CDP:R & Blizzard hold that throne for me.

I don't agree. Their main story script was great IMO and as far as the dlc goes what are you on? The price of the dlc is not as much as the core game and Leviathian was well worth the price I ave no doubt Omega will be too.

[Hexley UK]

Shepard108278 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

A dog poop became a dog poop with sprinkles....awesome.

I don't agree. THe orriginal ending lacked a few things and it was fine in my eyes. THe EC fixed all minor issues I had (and then some.) I never lost faith.

So you have incredibly low standards.....good for you....I guess.

[Shepard108278]

Hexley UK wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

A dog poop became a dog poop with sprinkles....awesome.

I don't agree. THe orriginal ending lacked a few things and it was fine in my eyes. THe EC fixed all minor issues I had (and then some.) I never lost faith.

So you have incredibly low standards.....good for you....I guess.

I love this comeback it just shows how immature some of you haters are. I like something you don't and I have low standards ok whatever. I am easy to please as long as I like what I;m given In my eyes they delivered what was promised that's all that really matters.

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...


I agree, except I believe that with the exception of Torment, BW's main-story scripts have always been mediocre at best. 

Make that all of them. Bio didn't write Torment.

[crimzontearz]

LilLino wrote...

Cathey wrote...

I have no problem with the ending. All I wanted was some closure on certain things and the EC did exactly what I wanted. Though it should have been like that right from the start.

Yeah, I support that post.

I hated the original endings because they were both half-assed and overly depressing and basically: WTF JUST HAPENED?! Is Star Travel ruined for generations?! WTF IS THIS KID TALKING ABOUT?(Actually, both kids, Starkid and the other one in the 'epilogue')
Why the hell did they make their own awesome universe to DESTROY it with DARK AGE ending. And then this DLC bullcrap message like a kick in the balls, because they could!

EC fixed all that, gave us some additonal info and made destroy ending (which was my favourite anyway, I'll never let Reapers get ouf this alive) actually on par-with the others removing this millenia dark-age crap.

As for faith in Bioware? I surely have faith in their character creation skill as I'll probably remember people like Garrus or Wrex, Liara&Tali forever. As for their main-story script: medicore at best. 
And I hate their DLC policy, it's bull****. 5h of SP gameplay in the price of full game. Yeah, right.

So no, I'm by no means Bioware lover, CDP:R & Blizzard hold that throne for me.

as of right now 343i holds that throne for me