781 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Eh, if we can handle being called haters by kotoreffect 24/7 you can handle being called out on drone -ness.

Little thing called dedication, we truly beleive in what ME 3 was promised to be, and we still want it to be that game.

But clearly the ideal situation is that neither side gets labeled anything...?

Even calling people pro-enders or anti-enders is part of the problem. I think the people who 100% loved the ending are in the minority, but labeling the rest pro-enders makes them feel defensive and causes them to defend parts of the ending that perhaps they would not even wish to defend in a more friendly setting.

The flipside is people who disliked the endings resorting to hyperbole and a handwaving of any pro-opinion, when perhaps a more friendly setting would incline them towards presenting their arguments in a more accepting fashion.

Or perhaps this is purely my perspective as someone who's argued on both sides of the fence.For example, when someone gets called stupid or crazy for believing something and starts getting dogpiled by sarcastic or unhelpful remarks, I have the urge to jump to their defense even if I don't necessarily agree with their viewpoint.

Before the "ME3 Endings Were Good Support Thread" was flame warred to hell, I had some real interesting and polite back-and-forth with people about the meaning behind the Destroy ending. I found the current ending incoherent thematically while people presented me with alternate interpretations to the ending. All in all, it was the most progress I had ever achieved evaluating a portion of the ending, and it was done in a way simply unachievable in most places in this board.

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well surely by your own logic Chris' statement that it has sold the best needs data to back it up no? Otherwise it's just a generic statement.....

As if data would change people's minds that have already decided BioWare is lying. If Chris saying it sold the best doesn't cut it, why would Chris posting data showing this cut it?

How about BioWare posting official numbers instead of relying on CP...err Preistly.......anywho, a generic statement =/= official numbers, it is hard to argue against actual hard fact, not so much so a statement made by someone whose job it is to hype his company's game.

The point is that if the assumption is BioWare is lying, then clearly there is nothing stopping them from fudging numbers as well. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well surely by your own logic Chris' statement that it has sold the best needs data to back it up no? Otherwise it's just a generic statement.....

As if data would change people's minds that have already decided BioWare is lying. If Chris saying it sold the best doesn't cut it, why would Chris posting data showing this cut it?

How about BioWare posting official numbers instead of relying on CP...err Preistly.......anywho, a generic statement =/= official numbers, it is hard to argue against actual hard fact, not so much so a statement made by someone whose job it is to hype his company's game.

The point is that if the assumption is BioWare is lying, then clearly there is nothing stopping them from fudging numbers as well. 

The thing about official numbers is they have to cite sources.

Mr.Troll Devilface can post on twitter that Leviathan sold a million billion copies,but it doesn't mean a thing because it isn't official.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:29 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Or the best case scenario:

Everyone stops the name-calling and the dividing of factions? And just let their arguments speak for themselves?

Well obviously that would be nice, but there are are those who can only resort to name calling because they never have any legitimate arguments or really anything intelligent to contribute at all.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:26 .

[Hexley UK]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well surely by your own logic Chris' statement that it has sold the best needs data to back it up no? Otherwise it's just a generic statement.....

As if data would change people's minds that have already decided BioWare is lying. If Chris saying it sold the best doesn't cut it, why would Chris posting data showing this cut it?

I see so now your own rules are to be broken just because.

[MegaSovereign]

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

[CronoDragoon]

Hexley UK wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well surely by your own logic Chris' statement that it has sold the best needs data to back it up no? Otherwise it's just a generic statement.....

As if data would change people's minds that have already decided BioWare is lying. If Chris saying it sold the best doesn't cut it, why would Chris posting data showing this cut it?

I see so now your own rules are to be broken just because.

But BioWare is the supporting evidence, here. Chris isn't posting an opinion at all. So...?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

While it certainly isn't ambiguous, it isn't concrete evidence that it is actually the best selling DLC to date, BW isn't above giving the ole F U to paying customers, why would they stop now?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Eterna]

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

"It can't be true, it can't! Me and my friends didn't buy it in protest!"

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Or the best case scenario:

Everyone stops the name-calling and the dividing of factions? And just let their arguments speak for themselves?

Well obviously that would be nice, but there are are those who can only resort to name calling because they never have any legitimate arguments or really anything intelligent to contribute at all.

I think on this everyone can agree.

[Hexley UK]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well surely by your own logic Chris' statement that it has sold the best needs data to back it up no? Otherwise it's just a generic statement.....

As if data would change people's minds that have already decided BioWare is lying. If Chris saying it sold the best doesn't cut it, why would Chris posting data showing this cut it?

I see so now your own rules are to be broken just because.

But BioWare is the supporting evidence, here. Chris isn't posting an opinion at all. So...?

Well by your rules yes he is posting an opinion as he has not provided evidence to back it up so?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Or the best case scenario:

Everyone stops the name-calling and the dividing of factions? And just let their arguments speak for themselves?

Well obviously that would be nice, but there are are those who can only resort to name calling because they never have any legitimate arguments or really anything intelligent to contribute at all.

I think on this everyone can agree.

...Did I really type are twice? I've had too much to drink.

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
...Did I really type are twice? I've had too much to drink.

Didn't even notice. Isn't that like one of those thought experiments that shows the brain doesn't read sentences word-by-word? 

[MegaSovereign]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

While it certainly isn't ambiguous, it isn't concrete evidence that it is actually the best selling DLC to date, BW isn't above giving the ole F U to paying customers, why would they stop now?

I don't see why Chris would need to attach a sales chart to his post just to not be called a liar.  

BW isn't above giving the ole F U to paying customers, why would they stop now?

Yea except the part where they never did that. And even if they had such an agenda I doubt CP was really trying to give people "the ole F U" with his claim. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
...Did I really type are twice? I've had too much to drink.

Didn't even notice. Isn't that like one of those thought experiments that shows the brain doesn't read sentences word-by-word? 

I probably typed are before I finished the thought and then typed it again once I had.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

While it certainly isn't ambiguous, it isn't concrete evidence that it is actually the best selling DLC to date, BW isn't above giving the ole F U to paying customers, why would they stop now?

I don't see why Chris would need to attach a sales chart to his post just to not be called a liar.  

Because of many pre-release statements made by BW employees that turned out to just be pure hype and if it truly is the best selling DLC to date then he would have no problem producing irrefutable evidence to support his statement.

Until such a time actual figures have been posted, it will be considered hype.

"Fool me once..."

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:40 .

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

LoL they said many things...

[CronoDragoon]

Hexley UK wrote...

Well by your rules yes he is posting an opinion as he has not provided evidence to back it up so?

But he is the supporting evidence, in essay terms. Saying he is not just means you think he's lying. He's not posting an opinion. The difference between him and ABF is that Chris is speaking from a position of authority on the subject, whereas ABF (and myself and everyone here) is not.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well by your rules yes he is posting an opinion as he has not provided evidence to back it up so?

But he is the supporting evidence, in essay terms. Saying he is not just means you think he's lying. He's not posting an opinion. The difference between him and ABF is that Chris is speaking from a position of authority on the subject, whereas ABF (and myself and everyone here) is not.

I could say that you were a derp, and until I went to the trouble of pulling quotes of you being a derp, it would be an unsupported oppinion.

The words of a man whose job it is, is to hype his company, means little compared to actual sales figures.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:43 .

[jpraelster93]

The thing about the best selling dlc to date doesnt take into account how many people used bing rewards and didnt pay bioware a red cent for it

[Hexley UK]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well by your rules yes he is posting an opinion as he has not provided evidence to back it up so?

But he is the supporting evidence, in essay terms. Saying he is not just means you think he's lying. He's not posting an opinion. The difference between him and ABF is that Chris is speaking from a position of authority on the subject, whereas ABF (and myself and everyone here) is not.

And so he should be believed unequivocally and without challenge, with no supporting evidence?

Corporations love people like you.

[MegaSovereign]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

While it certainly isn't ambiguous, it isn't concrete evidence that it is actually the best selling DLC to date, BW isn't above giving the ole F U to paying customers, why would they stop now?

I don't see why Chris would need to attach a sales chart to his post just to not be called a liar.  

Because of many pre-release statements made by BW employees that turned out to just be pure hype and if it truly is the best selling DLC to date then he would have no problem producing irrefutable evidence to support his statement.

Until such a time actual figures have been posted, it will be considered hype.

Hype? Yea because posting in a thread that got a couple hundred views in a sub-forum mostly comprised of people who have already made their decision is going to generate so much money.

Besides, if you're not going to trust what he says what good is posting numbers going to do? 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

While it certainly isn't ambiguous, it isn't concrete evidence that it is actually the best selling DLC to date, BW isn't above giving the ole F U to paying customers, why would they stop now?

I don't see why Chris would need to attach a sales chart to his post just to not be called a liar.  

Because of many pre-release statements made by BW employees that turned out to just be pure hype and if it truly is the best selling DLC to date then he would have no problem producing irrefutable evidence to support his statement.

Until such a time actual figures have been posted, it will be considered hype.

Hype? Yea because posting in a thread that got a couple hundred views in a sub-forum mostly comprised of people who have already made their decision is going to generate so much money.

Besides, if you're not going to trust what he says what good is posting numbers going to do? 

Apparently someone has not been following this dialogue.

sources cited.

[Eterna]

Exactly! Even with numbers he would still be accused of forging them.

Modifié par Eterna5, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .

[MegaSovereign]

Hexley UK wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well by your rules yes he is posting an opinion as he has not provided evidence to back it up so?

But he is the supporting evidence, in essay terms. Saying he is not just means you think he's lying. He's not posting an opinion. The difference between him and ABF is that Chris is speaking from a position of authority on the subject, whereas ABF (and myself and everyone here) is not.

And so he should be believed unequivocally and without challenge, with no supporting evidence?

Corporations love people like you.

His statement isn't incredulous.

Aside from Arrival, Leviathan is the first DLC to be released for all three platforms.