781 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Because of many pre-release statements made by BW employees that turned out to just be pure hype and if it truly is the best selling DLC to date then he would have no problem producing irrefutable evidence to support his statement.

Until such a time actual figures have been posted, it will be considered hype.

"Fool me once..."

I suspect this is the heart of ABF's accusations against Chris Priestly, as well. Because of how misleading a few of the marketing statements were (that as far as I know he did not make...?), that calls into question a statement about sales numbers. But to me there is a difference with a statement that has no wiggle room, like this one. If they were truly trying to spin more marketing "lies" then wouldn't they say something like, "Leviathan surpassed expectations" or something?

[MegaSovereign]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

"Best selling DLC to date" isn't a generic, ambiguous statement.

It's pretty definitive in what message it is trying to convey. Any accusations of the statement being "lies" or "unclear" are born out of fear that the negative feedback isn't affecting Bioware from a commercial standpoint.

While it certainly isn't ambiguous, it isn't concrete evidence that it is actually the best selling DLC to date, BW isn't above giving the ole F U to paying customers, why would they stop now?

I don't see why Chris would need to attach a sales chart to his post just to not be called a liar.  

Because of many pre-release statements made by BW employees that turned out to just be pure hype and if it truly is the best selling DLC to date then he would have no problem producing irrefutable evidence to support his statement.

Until such a time actual figures have been posted, it will be considered hype.

Hype? Yea because posting in a thread that got a couple hundred views in a sub-forum mostly comprised of people who have already made their decision is going to generate so much money.

Besides, if you're not going to trust what he says what good is posting numbers going to do? 

Apparently someone has not been following this dialogue.

sources cited.

I don't need to follow any dialogue that is not relevant to my argument. 

And lol at sources cited.

He is the source...Who is he going to quote? Mike Gamble? What's stopping you guys from saying Gamble is lying too? 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I don't need to follow any dialogue that is not relevant to my argument. 

He is the source...Who is he going to quote? Mike Gamble? What's stopping you guys from saying Gamble is lying too? 

Origin? XBL? PSN?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:51 .

[Hexley UK]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Well by your rules yes he is posting an opinion as he has not provided evidence to back it up so?

But he is the supporting evidence, in essay terms. Saying he is not just means you think he's lying. He's not posting an opinion. The difference between him and ABF is that Chris is speaking from a position of authority on the subject, whereas ABF (and myself and everyone here) is not.

And so he should be believed unequivocally and without challenge, with no supporting evidence?

Corporations love people like you.

His statement isn't incredulous.

Aside from Arrival, Leviathan is the first DLC to be released for all three platforms.  

I'm not arguing if he's lying or not...i'm merely pointing out to CronoDragoon that he should follow the same self created rules for all statements not just the ones he chooses.

You'd have to read the whole conversation to see what i'm getting at.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Because of many pre-release statements made by BW employees that turned out to just be pure hype and if it truly is the best selling DLC to date then he would have no problem producing irrefutable evidence to support his statement.

Until such a time actual figures have been posted, it will be considered hype.

"Fool me once..."

I suspect this is the heart of ABF's accusations against Chris Priestly, as well. Because of how misleading a few of the marketing statements were (that as far as I know he did not make...?), that calls into question a statement about sales numbers. But to me there is a difference with a statement that has no wiggle room, like this one. If they were truly trying to spin more marketing "lies" then wouldn't they say something like, "Leviathan surpassed expectations" or something?

Perhaps, but without evidence ( XBL,PSN,Origin sales figures) it is just a tweet.

[MegaSovereign]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I don't need to follow any dialogue that is not relevant to my argument. 

He is the source...Who is he going to quote? Mike Gamble? What's stopping you guys from saying Gamble is lying too? 

Origin? XBL? PSN?

What does that even mean? MS/Sony/Valve don't post official DLC sales numbers.

Any hard number would come from Bioware...And following the logic of your argument...well you can't trust anything Bioware says right?

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:56 .

[CronoDragoon]

Hexley UK wrote...

And so he should be believed unequivocally and without challenge, with no supporting evidence?

Corporations love people like you.

Where did I say that? He's in a position of authority on the subject whether you like it or not.

As for your second derisive statement, I'd reference you to an earlier conversation I had in this thread wherein I explained that it is perfectly reasonable to believe what a corporation says provided the lack of compelling counter-evidence. In this case, it is more reasonable to believe that he is telling the truth rather than lying. People who believe it is a lie refererence marketing hype made by a different employee. People who believe it's true believe:

1. BioWare has learned their lesson marketing-wise. If you doubt this then please journey to the Dragon Age 3 forums and see how they are approaching their marketing veeery cautiously.
2. It makes sense that Leviathan is the best-selling DLC to date since LotSB was packaged with the PS3 version of ME2, and a lot more people bought ME3 than ME2.
3. It wouldn't make sense to remain silent on the ME3 boards for the endings and EC, and then come here and post a lie about a DLC's sales weeks after its release.

Etc. Since I don't have compelling reasons to doubt Chris, I'll continue to believe him.

[jpraelster93]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I don't need to follow any dialogue that is not relevant to my argument. 

He is the source...Who is he going to quote? Mike Gamble? What's stopping you guys from saying Gamble is lying too? 

Origin? XBL? PSN?

What does that even mean? MS/Sony/Valve don't post official DLC sales numbers.

Any hard number would come from Bioware...And following the logic of your argument...well you can't trust anything Bioware says right?

Since there are no official sales numbers from sony/ms/pc there is no way to know if its the highest selling dlc of course he is gonna say its the highest what do you think he is gonna say leviathan was the worse sold dlc to date OF COURSE NOT come on now guys

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I don't need to follow any dialogue that is not relevant to my argument. 

He is the source...Who is he going to quote? Mike Gamble? What's stopping you guys from saying Gamble is lying too? 

Origin? XBL? PSN?

What does that even mean? MS/Sony/Valve don't post official DLC sales numbers.

Any hard number would come from Bioware...And following the logic of your argument...well you can't trust anything Bioware says right?

Origin is EA...and like I said before, without official numbers it is just a tweet.

JP hit the nail on the head.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:01 .

[CronoDragoon]

jpraelster93 wrote...

Since there are no official sales numbers from sony/ms/pc there is no way to know if its the highest selling dlc of course he is gonna say its the highest what do you think he is gonna say leviathan was the worse sold dlc to date OF COURSE NOT come on now guys

Which is why, in the case of Leviathan selling poorly, what he would say is what BioWare has said on these forums for months. Nothing.

[Hexley UK]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

And so he should be believed unequivocally and without challenge, with no supporting evidence?

Corporations love people like you.

Where did I say that? He's in a position of authority on the subject whether you like it or not.

As for your second derisive statement, I'd reference you to an earlier conversation I had in this thread wherein I explained that it is perfectly reasonable to believe what a corporation says provided the lack of compelling counter-evidence. In this case, it is more reasonable to believe that he is telling the truth rather than lying. People who believe it is a lie refererence marketing hype made by a different employee. People who believe it's true believe:

1. BioWare has learned their lesson marketing-wise. If you doubt this then please journey to the Dragon Age 3 forums and see how they are approaching their marketing veeery cautiously.
2. It makes sense that Leviathan is the best-selling DLC to date since LotSB was packaged with the PS3 version of ME2, and a lot more people bought ME3 than ME2.
3. It wouldn't make sense to remain silent on the ME3 boards for the endings and EC, and then come here and post a lie about a DLC's sales weeks after its release.

Etc. Since I don't have compelling reasons to doubt Chris, I'll continue to believe him.

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Since there are no official sales numbers from sony/ms/pc there is no way to know if its the highest selling dlc of course he is gonna say its the highest what do you think he is gonna say leviathan was the worse sold dlc to date OF COURSE NOT come on now guys

Which is why, in the case of Leviathan selling poorly, what he would say is what BioWare has said on these forums for months. Nothing.

BW has held up a facade of caring about what the fans think since this whole thing hit the fan, trying to save face or make themselves look good in spite of the truth is nothing new. BW doesn't say anything here because this is where we are, this is where we can respond, this isn't when the people who write about these kinds of things are, they can't turn to sensationalism journalism from one of the gaming mags or websites from here.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:05 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Hexley UK wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

And so he should be believed unequivocally and without challenge, with no supporting evidence?

Corporations love people like you.

Where did I say that? He's in a position of authority on the subject whether you like it or not.

As for your second derisive statement, I'd reference you to an earlier conversation I had in this thread wherein I explained that it is perfectly reasonable to believe what a corporation says provided the lack of compelling counter-evidence. In this case, it is more reasonable to believe that he is telling the truth rather than lying. People who believe it is a lie refererence marketing hype made by a different employee. People who believe it's true believe:

1. BioWare has learned their lesson marketing-wise. If you doubt this then please journey to the Dragon Age 3 forums and see how they are approaching their marketing veeery cautiously.
2. It makes sense that Leviathan is the best-selling DLC to date since LotSB was packaged with the PS3 version of ME2, and a lot more people bought ME3 than ME2.
3. It wouldn't make sense to remain silent on the ME3 boards for the endings and EC, and then come here and post a lie about a DLC's sales weeks after its release.

Etc. Since I don't have compelling reasons to doubt Chris, I'll continue to believe him.

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Seems legit.

[Applepie_Svk]

Hexley UK wrote...


So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

free_candy_van.jpg

seems legit...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:04 .

[CronoDragoon]

Hexley UK wrote...

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Uh, that is the only thing that makes sense. Why would you choose to believe something that has less evidence supporting it unless you were trying to validate a pre-existing hypothesis of your own?

Also love how you conveniently forgot to quote the reasons I have for believing him that were listed directly above what you quoted.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Hexley UK]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

And so he should be believed unequivocally and without challenge, with no supporting evidence?

Corporations love people like you.

Where did I say that? He's in a position of authority on the subject whether you like it or not.

As for your second derisive statement, I'd reference you to an earlier conversation I had in this thread wherein I explained that it is perfectly reasonable to believe what a corporation says provided the lack of compelling counter-evidence. In this case, it is more reasonable to believe that he is telling the truth rather than lying. People who believe it is a lie refererence marketing hype made by a different employee. People who believe it's true believe:

1. BioWare has learned their lesson marketing-wise. If you doubt this then please journey to the Dragon Age 3 forums and see how they are approaching their marketing veeery cautiously.
2. It makes sense that Leviathan is the best-selling DLC to date since LotSB was packaged with the PS3 version of ME2, and a lot more people bought ME3 than ME2.
3. It wouldn't make sense to remain silent on the ME3 boards for the endings and EC, and then come here and post a lie about a DLC's sales weeks after its release.

Etc. Since I don't have compelling reasons to doubt Chris, I'll continue to believe him.

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Seems legit.

I'm suddenly getting flashbacks of debating with religious people.....can't think why....

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Uh, that is the only thing that makes sense. Why would you choose to believe something that has less evidence supporting it unless you were trying to validate a pre-existing hypothesis of your own?

Literally everything you just said made no sense.

How can something have less than no evidence?

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
BW doesn't say anything here because this is where we are, this is where we can respond, this isn't when the people who write about these kinds of things are, they can't turn to sensationalism journalism from one of the gaming mags or websites from here.

Exactly my point. So what does it tell you when BioWare DOES say something here?

[Hexley UK]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Uh, that is the only thing that makes sense. Why would you choose to believe something that has less evidence supporting it unless you were trying to validate a pre-existing hypothesis of your own?

Also love how you conveniently forgot to quote the reasons I have for believing him that were listed directly above what you quoted.

My problem is that you yourself said that you would not take on any statements as true without supporting evidence and yet you are inclined to believe Chris despite the fact that there is no evidence at all to support either argument, which is hypocritical.

I honestly don't know what the truth is....but personally I wouldn't be swayed either way until I saw legit data as proof.

Modifié par Hexley UK, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:10 .

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Uh, that is the only thing that makes sense. Why would you choose to believe something that has less evidence supporting it unless you were trying to validate a pre-existing hypothesis of your own?

Literally everything you just said made no sense.

How can something have less than no evidence?

You misunderstand, and perhaps Hexley did as well. There is more reason to believe Chris than doubt him. Accordingly, without said compelling reason to doubt him, I'll continue to believe him.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
BW doesn't say anything here because this is where we are, this is where we can respond, this isn't when the people who write about these kinds of things are, they can't turn to sensationalism journalism from one of the gaming mags or websites from here.

Exactly my point. So what does it tell you when BioWare DOES say something here?

About as much as the "We are listening" thread did.

[MegaSovereign]

jpraelster93 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I don't need to follow any dialogue that is not relevant to my argument. 

He is the source...Who is he going to quote? Mike Gamble? What's stopping you guys from saying Gamble is lying too? 

Origin? XBL? PSN?

What does that even mean? MS/Sony/Valve don't post official DLC sales numbers.

Any hard number would come from Bioware...And following the logic of your argument...well you can't trust anything Bioware says right?

Since there are no official sales numbers from sony/ms/pc there is no way to know if its the highest selling dlc of course he is gonna say its the highest what do you think he is gonna say leviathan was the worse sold dlc to date OF COURSE NOT come on now guys

He didn't even have to post.

Holy crap...

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Uh, that is the only thing that makes sense. Why would you choose to believe something that has less evidence supporting it unless you were trying to validate a pre-existing hypothesis of your own?

Literally everything you just said made no sense.

How can something have less than no evidence?

You misunderstand, and perhaps Hexley did as well. There is more reason to believe Chris than doubt him. Accordingly, without said compelling reason to doubt him, I'll continue to believe him.

Uh? His job is to hype BW, that is certainly a reason to take any and all statements with more than a grain of salt.

Do you take everything everyone says at face value? Corporations do love people like you.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:15 .

[MegaSovereign]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

So a complete lack of any evidence is your reason for believing him?

Makes sense.....

Uh, that is the only thing that makes sense. Why would you choose to believe something that has less evidence supporting it unless you were trying to validate a pre-existing hypothesis of your own?

Literally everything you just said made no sense.

How can something have less than no evidence?

You misunderstand, and perhaps Hexley did as well. There is more reason to believe Chris than doubt him. Accordingly, without said compelling reason to doubt him, I'll continue to believe him.

Uh? His job is to hype BW, that is certainly a reason to take any and all statements with more than a grain of salt.

Do you take everything everyone says at face value? Corporations do love people like you.

That's not even an accurate portrayal of his job description. He's a community manager.

And a statement that definitive doesn't sound like a lie. It doesn't particularly change people's intiative on purchasing/not purchasing the DLC.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:20 .

[CronoDragoon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Uh? His job is to hype BW, that is certainly a reason to take any and all statements with more than a grain of salt.

Do you take everything everyone says at face value? Corporations do love people like you.

Conspiracy theorists love people like you, I guess. Or we could quit with the labeling.

And what is "face value" in this scenario? Are you claiming there is some underlying meaning behind his post? 

Besides, your own statement provides its own reason to believe him, which I observed when speaking about the Dragon Age 3 forums. BW obviously believes that it is currently in their best interest to say nothing - marketing wise - that can later be used against them by the fanbase.