781 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Jamie9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
It only sucks when the writers pull the rug out from under you in the last ten minutes.

Usually I can get a sense ahead of time if it's something I'd enjoy or not.

Indeed. I've always said they should have advertised it correctly: as a dark, gritty war story, as opposed to a Sci-Fi Epic.

That's because it probably wasn't gonna be that way, since Bioware didn't plan ahead when they made ME1

[Iakus]

Jamie9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
It only sucks when the writers pull the rug out from under you in the last ten minutes.

Usually I can get a sense ahead of time if it's something I'd enjoy or not.

Indeed. I've always said they should have advertised it correctly: as a dark, gritty war story, as opposed to a Sci-Fi Epic.

Given ME1 and ME2 were sci-fi epics, I'd say they should have kept that tone for the end of the trilogy.

But what do I know?  I'm just a customer.

[clennon8]

Being "grimdark" doesn't automatically make something mature and/or good. I tend to like grimdark stuff myself, but I loathe ME3's ending like no other ending to a videogame, movie, or book ever. So it isn't about being grimdark. I could start talking about abandonment of themes, deus ex machina, plot holes, and all that stuff, but if you haven't gotten it by now, you never will.

[Necrotron]

I never lost my faith in Bioware, I just disagree with their decision for the ending of Mass Effect and think it is horrible.

The game was fantastic, just a shoddy experience for the player at the end, and frustrating writing for a video game.

[Balz to the Wall]

Holy crap. I seemed to have stirred up a hornet's nest.

[Dark_Caduceus]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I must admit it helped, but it hardly restored my faith. Kinda like a band-aid for a broken ankle, know what I mean?

Still, props for Bioware for at least doing SOMETHING.

Yeah too bad they couldn't just put on their big boy pants and say, "Hey, we made a mistake." and resorted to "artistic integrity".

At this point anything short of a complete Mass Effect 3 rewrite is a dissapointment, and the EC actually created just as many plot holes and inconsistencies as it rectified.

[Legion of 1337]

ME1 has the best plot overall, but the least character development and interaction. It was all about the main story, mostly.

ME2 had great characters, but the plot was stupid and ultimately pointless towards stopping the Reapers. Regarding the plot only, it was very much like a "superhero foils the bad guy's plan again" TV episode.

ME3 isn't quite as character focussed, but it manages to successfully weave a lot of character development and interaction into and around the main plot. The plot itself is solid, but is full of plot holes. The ending is not thematically different, but it is tonally different and oddly presented. And it's full of plot holes. ME3's plot might even have been as good as ME1 if it weren't for all the stupid plot holes.

[Iakus]

Bathaius wrote...

I never lost my faith in Bioware, I just disagree with their decision for the ending of Mass Effect and think it is horrible.

The game was fantastic, just a shoddy experience for the player at the end, and frustrating writing for a video game.

I've experienced bad endings before.  In games.  In movies.  On television.  Books, too.

But only a tiny handful have been so bad they made me wish I'd never heard of the franchise.  ME3's ending is part of that elite company.

Edit:  Jusdt for comparison, Dragon Age 2 is not on that list.

Modifié par iakus, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:48 .

[dreman9999]

spirosz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If this complains id just.."I didn't  kill all the reapers, be with my li and have a happy ending" or "I don't want to do anything immoral to stop the reapers."...Then I think the whiners missed the poitn.
The question ME as a series is what would you do and sacrific to stop and unstopable force...Your furture and your morals is on the table.

For certain people, the series was about something different, could of been just about the characters or could of been what you just said - stopping the Reapers, obviously the obvious "goal" was the latter, but I for one, cared more about the characters then the plot itself, which lost it's appeal after ME1 (IMO).  

Lost it's appeal...Please... The character in ME1 is the woser out of the 3 games. ME2 and character are much richer then the ME1 characters.

Added, being that this is a character based story...Why do you think I want to dowhat it takes to stop the reapers?
Do you think I want the character I know and love to die?

The characters i care for living in the end is my goal...And doing what it takes to stop the reapers is the way to do that...



They're  still alive...I guess I won.

[Jamie9]

spirosz wrote...
As do I, ME1 had the best plot, ME2 had the best characters for me.  Again, that has to do with ME2 having a bad plot and being more character focused, which is fine to a degree, but that all came down to the "stand alone" mindset Bioware had mixed in with this trilogy.

Agreed.

AresKeith wrote...
That's because it probably wasn't gonna be that way, since Bioware didn't plan ahead when they made ME1.

A huge mistake: the true cause of the ending IMO. At the very least, after the success of ME1, ME2 and ME3 should have been planned out as a clear duology.

iakus wrote...
Given ME1 and ME2 were sci-fi epics, I'd say they should have kept that tone for the end of the trilogy.

But what do I know?  I'm just a customer.

I rather enjoyed ME3 (not the original ending - EC made it bearable), but pissing off your previous fans by completely changing the theme is generally a bad idea. And by "generally", I mean "always".

clennon8 wrote...
Being "grimdark" doesn't automatically make something mature and/or
good. I tend to like grimdark stuff myself, but I loathe ME3's ending
like no other ending to a videogame, movie, or book ever. So it isn't
about being grimdark. I could start talking about abandonment of
themes, deus ex machina, plot holes, and all that stuff, but if you
haven't gotten it by now, you never will.

Although there is TERRIBLE writing in the ending, I can't deny that it's dark nature is a factor into the general disdain it has acrued. This is because the last game had a similar "suicide mission", and yet you could come out with 0 casualties.

[AresKeith]

Balz to the Wall wrote...

Holy crap. I seemed to have stirred up a hornet's nest.

ME3 is a touchy subject, some people liked it and some were disappointed by it

[spirosz]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lost it's appeal...Please... The character in ME1 is the woser out of the 3 games. ME2 and character are much richer then the ME1 characters.

Added, being that this is a character based story...Why do you think I want to dowhat it takes to stop the reapers?
Do you think I want the character I know and love to die?

The characters i care for living in the end is my goal...And doing what it takes to stop the reapers is the way to do that...

I've been saying that ME2 had the best characters, where did I say ME1?  I said the plot lost it's appeal after ME1, where as the characters grow and got me attatched to the series more so than the story ever could.

[dreman9999]

clennon8 wrote...

If being forced to choose a heinous war crime and/or murder your friends was truly "the point" of the the Mass Effect series, then Bioware can truly go eff themselves.

The overall question is "What are you willing to do and sacrific to stop an unstopable force".

Think how that question stands when your force to pic immoral choices only to have to stop this unstopable force from destroying all advance organic life.

[Jamie9]

iakus wrote...
I've experienced bad endings before.  In games.  In movies.  On television.  Books, too.

But only a tiny handful have been so bad they made me wish I'd never heard of the franchise.  ME3's ending is part of that elite company.

Edit:  Jusdt for comparison, Dragon Age 2 is not on that list.

I enjoyed DA2's ending - only thing was it felt like a huge tease for DA3 (much like Halo 2's ending).

Plus, that explosion was purty.

[AresKeith]

Jamie9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
That's because it probably wasn't gonna be that way, since Bioware didn't plan ahead when they made ME1.

A huge mistake: the true cause of the ending IMO. At the very least, after the success of ME1, ME2 and ME3 should have been planned out as a clear duology.

Part of me also said some of the problem came from the Narrative Director leaving after ME2

[clennon8]

Some people just have very, very low standards as to what constitutes a good ending to a story. That's the only conclusion I can come to.

[Iakus]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

]Lost it's appeal...Please... The character in ME1 is the woser out of the 3 games. ME2 and character are much richer then the ME1 characters.[/quote]

Your opinion.  My favorite character in the entire trilogy was Ashley WIlliams.  I'd take her as a squadmate over anyone in ME2.  And that's not a knock on ME2 squad.

[quote]
Added, being that this is a character based story...Why do you think I want to dowhat it takes to stop the reapers?
Do you think I want the character I know and love to die? [/quote]

The characters i care for living in the end is my goal...And doing what it takes to stop the reapers is the way to do that...

[/quote]

Too bad my character got taken away from me in the closing scenes and burned in front of me while I watched helplessly.

[dreman9999]

spirosz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lost it's appeal...Please... The character in ME1 is the woser out of the 3 games. ME2 and character are much richer then the ME1 characters.

Added, being that this is a character based story...Why do you think I want to dowhat it takes to stop the reapers?
Do you think I want the character I know and love to die?

The characters i care for living in the end is my goal...And doing what it takes to stop the reapers is the way to do that...

I've been saying that ME2 had the best characters, where did I say ME1?  I said the plot lost it's appeal after ME1, where as the characters grow and got me attatched to the series more so than the story ever could.

And you missed my point....You see if you like the character...You don't want them to die. The fact that the only way to make sure they don't die is to pick one of these choices you don't like. If you want them to live...Something has to be sacrificed.
Even if your just focused on teh characters, the characters fate ties into the plot. If you want them to live, you may have to get over your morals so they don't die.

[Iakus]

Jamie9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
I've experienced bad endings before.  In games.  In movies.  On television.  Books, too.

But only a tiny handful have been so bad they made me wish I'd never heard of the franchise.  ME3's ending is part of that elite company.

Edit:  Jusdt for comparison, Dragon Age 2 is not on that list.

I enjoyed DA2's ending - only thing was it felt like a huge tease for DA3 (much like Halo 2's ending).

Plus, that explosion was purty.

Yeah, the thing is, Halo doesn't offer much in the way of "choosing your path".  The story's the story.  In Mass Effect, I kinda expected to have a say in Shepard's fate...

[Jamie9]

AresKeith wrote...
Part of me also said some of the problem came from the Narrative Director leaving after ME2

Unrefutable, pretty much. Karpyshyn's three novels were great, and then Dietz wrote Deception, and... yeah. Not good.

[Ghost]

Jamie9 wrote...

spirosz wrote...
For certain people, the series was about something different, could of been just about the characters or could of been what you just said - stopping the Reapers, obviously the obvious "goal" was the latter, but I for one, cared more about the characters then the plot itself, which lost it's appeal after ME1 (IMO).  

ME1 had the least fleshed out characters of the trilogy.

Tali and Wrex are talking codexes. Joker has a total of one dialogue wheel (plus random comments on each plot world). Pressley has one dialogue wheel.

You obviously have the least amount of squaddies in any of the games, and combined with them not being fleshed out, I feel that characters really came alive in ME2.

Not to mention the cheesy dialogue.

[clennon8]

dreman9999 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

If being forced to choose a heinous war crime and/or murder your friends was truly "the point" of the the Mass Effect series, then Bioware can truly go eff themselves.

The overall question is "What are you willing to do and sacrific to stop an unstopable force".

Think how that question stands when your force to pic immoral choices only to have to stop this unstopable force from destroying all advance organic life.

"How low will you sink?" was not the theme of the Mass Effect series.  It was the theme of the last 10 minutes. Frankly, I don't think there's any ending you wouldn't defend.  You are a drone.

[jpraelster93]

Jawsomebob wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

Yea, no.
The EC is like a Report Card that had 4 F's on it. And then Extra Credit got 3 F's and a D.

THIS

[dreman9999]

@iakus 

"Your opinion.  My favorite character in the entire trilogy was Ashley WIlliams.  I'd take her as a squadmate over anyone in ME2.  And that's not a knock on ME2 squad."
And she's part of your ME3 squad....Which goes back to my point.

"Too bad my character got taken away from me in the closing scenes and burned in front of me while I watched helplessly."

That why choice matters. If you picked refused...What do you think will happen. If you want her to live, get over your morals and ego. Remeber, the question of the seris is what you are willing to do and sacrific to stop an unstopable force. unstopable 

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

And you missed my point....You see if you like the character...You don't want them to die. The fact that the only way to make sure they don't die is to pick one of these choices you don't like. If you want them to live...Something has to be sacrificed.

ME3 doesnt' even do that.  You get "implications" that Shepard lives.  Unlike the deaths, which are shown.

You commit a war crime for an implication.  Not a good tradeoff.

Even if your just focused on teh characters, the characters fate ties into the plot. If you want them to live, you may have to get over your morals so they don't die.

That's not a good tagline for a video game.  Just saying.