781 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

What does that have to do with anything?

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

Note to self... When in charge, don't do what TIM would do.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...
]1. But the problem is the catalyst is a shaclked AI doing what it's programed to do. It was locked to absolute thinking.  The only limit the Shepard AI has it to think likeShepard and have his her memories. It not a case of not having emotion that got the catalyst to act out...It a lack of morals. The catalyst does have emotions. Added, nothing say the sheaprd ai does not have emotions.{/quote]

2.I already pointed out that you were doing it before, aka , sacrificing. The issue still stands that if standing by you morals to a "t" causes the death of everyone in the galexy.....What good are they?

3.Sorry, ME was never about being a hero.

1) None of which says the Shepreaper won't grow beyond its original protocols.  AIs can alter their programming.  Like EDI did. (except in her case it proved to be a good thing

2) I never denied sacrifice was a part of the game.  I'm saying the price got to high at the end.  It killed the enjoyment.  It stopped being my choice and started Bioware took over.

3) From the box of ME1:

As Commander Shepard you lead an elite squad on a heroic action-packed adventure throughout the galaxy

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

What does that have to do with anything?

It means the AI isn't Shepard and will diverge from teh real Shepard once it becomes a seperate entity.  Therefore, there's no way of knowing what it may end up doing eventually.

[SpamBot2000]

The EC was a part of BioWare telling you that what another part of BioWare did meant no such thing they meant, if you follow.

I find it deeply unsatisfactory.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:25 .

[dorktainian]

bad ending still sucks.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

2 Again, I was able to "do what needs to be done" quite satisfactilly as a paragon in ME1 and ME2. It' sin ME3 where suddenly you have to be a sith lord to "save" the galaxy. I know you're a stone cold renegade and can't understand that. But try, okay?

You don't have to be a Sith lord. You're never required to do anything immoral.

We'll have to disagree on that, as I find all the choices repugnant.

What's truely immoral about control?

More an insane gamble than outright immoral.  You're pretty much swapping out a part and hoping this time the machine works.

[Eterna]

iakus wrote...



1) None of which says the Shepreaper won't grow beyond its original protocols.  AIs can alter their programming.  Like EDI did. (except in her case it proved to be a good thing

It would have to have a reason to reprogram itself. The original Catalyst remained the same for 1 billion years, it never chnaged it's core programming because its solution worked. From the epilogue slides it's clear that everything seems to be working, therefore the Shepalyst has no reason to change itself. 

[sporeian]

dreman9999 wrote...

sporeian wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sporeian wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

sporeian wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Yes, it's a dictator...
It can call itself whatever it wants...

And what exactly is wrong with a Dictator that stops Galatic conflict? 

Power Corrupts...

Power can't corrupt an AI.

Sure it can, it's Artifical intelligence, so it can think for itself. Sure, it's limited by variables, but it can make decisions about what to do... like to kill everyone every 50,000 years because it apparently saves everyone...

Right, use the AI that a slave to it programing as an example and miss the point to why it happen.
TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done....And with that I can decide to let all synthetic life and organic life  live how they will and want.

What is a dictator that lets his /her people make their own goverment?

Shepard's personality may be a basis for it's decisions, but Shepard is still human, he can change his opinions and YOU can change your opinions. Power corrupts all in the end, whether it be organic or synthetic.

Also, the answer to your question is a false democracy... usually initiated by fear or power over others.

Not if a have a guide line....A basic "don't be like TIM" rule. This is a question of wheather you can trust your self.

"Also, the answer to your question is a false democracy... usually initiated by fear or power over others."
What fear? My Shepard is not going to have reapers loom over people or races. The races most likely will not see a reaper for generations.

Guidlines can be changed, they arn't concrete... AI's are intelligent, self-thinking machines.

And loke I said Power corrupts. Idealism, like peaceful Shepard as Reaper protecting all, is extremely irrational. Shepard can and will get corrupt, just as people will in a post-synthesis and post-destroy universe.

The Shepard AI is not incorruptible...

[Eterna]

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

What does that have to do with anything?

It means the AI isn't Shepard and will diverge from teh real Shepard once it becomes a seperate entity.  Therefore, there's no way of knowing what it may end up doing eventually.

So? Destroy has the possibility of Organic life going extinct because people rebuild Synthetics. Nobody seems to be questioning that. 

Each of the endings have unknowns. 

[Eterna]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

2 Again, I was able to "do what needs to be done" quite satisfactilly as a paragon in ME1 and ME2. It' sin ME3 where suddenly you have to be a sith lord to "save" the galaxy. I know you're a stone cold renegade and can't understand that. But try, okay?

You don't have to be a Sith lord. You're never required to do anything immoral.

We'll have to disagree on that, as I find all the choices repugnant.

What's truely immoral about control?

More an insane gamble than outright immoral.  You're pretty much swapping out a part and hoping this time the machine works.

And you shoot a tube hoping that it will Destroy the reapers. Your only evidence that it will work? The Catalyst says so. You are on the same moral ground as everyone else. You had to take a risk and it payed off, just like the people who picked control had to.

 Lets stop pretending that that our final decision is better than everyone else's, because it's simply not true. 

[EnvyTB075]

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

What does that have to do with anything?

It means the AI isn't Shepard and will diverge from teh real Shepard once it becomes a seperate entity.  Therefore, there's no way of knowing what it may end up doing eventually.

So? Destroy has the possibility of Organic life going extinct because people rebuild Synthetics. Nobody seems to be questioning that. 

Each of the endings have unknowns. 

Organic life will never go extinct. To claim otherwise is a logical fallacy and shows just how little you actually know.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

 Lets stop pretending that that our final decision is better than everyone else's, because it's simply not true. 

You must have missed the part where I said I found all the ending choices to be repugnant

Modifié par iakus, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:34 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

2 Again, I was able to "do what needs to be done" quite satisfactilly as a paragon in ME1 and ME2. It' sin ME3 where suddenly you have to be a sith lord to "save" the galaxy. I know you're a stone cold renegade and can't understand that. But try, okay?

You don't have to be a Sith lord. You're never required to do anything immoral.

We'll have to disagree on that, as I find all the choices repugnant.

What's truely immoral about control?

More an insane gamble than outright immoral.  You're pretty much swapping out a part and hoping this time the machine works.

The same can be said with any of the choices. If this story is a bout hope then we can apply that hope to control.

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done....And with that I can decide to let all synthetic life and organic life  live how they will and want.

What is a dictator that lets his /her people make their own goverment?

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Lets stop pretending that that our final decision is better than everyone else's, because it's simply not true. 

You must have missed the part where I said I found all the ending choices to be repugnant

You found the other 2 choices repungnent based on moral...Which you don't have that issue with control.

[Eterna]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

What does that have to do with anything?

It means the AI isn't Shepard and will diverge from teh real Shepard once it becomes a seperate entity.  Therefore, there's no way of knowing what it may end up doing eventually.

So? Destroy has the possibility of Organic life going extinct because people rebuild Synthetics. Nobody seems to be questioning that. 

Each of the endings have unknowns. 

Organic life will never go extinct. To claim otherwise is a logical fallacy.

You do realize that the entire purpose of the reapers was to prevent organic life from going extinct right? And that before Picking Destroy the Catalyst says that future generations will build synthetics and the chaos will resume?

[dreman9999]

sporeian wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sporeian wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sporeian wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

sporeian wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Yes, it's a dictator...
It can call itself whatever it wants...

And what exactly is wrong with a Dictator that stops Galatic conflict? 

Power Corrupts...

Power can't corrupt an AI.

Sure it can, it's Artifical intelligence, so it can think for itself. Sure, it's limited by variables, but it can make decisions about what to do... like to kill everyone every 50,000 years because it apparently saves everyone...

Right, use the AI that a slave to it programing as an example and miss the point to why it happen.
TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done....And with that I can decide to let all synthetic life and organic life  live how they will and want.

What is a dictator that lets his /her people make their own goverment?

Shepard's personality may be a basis for it's decisions, but Shepard is still human, he can change his opinions and YOU can change your opinions. Power corrupts all in the end, whether it be organic or synthetic.

Also, the answer to your question is a false democracy... usually initiated by fear or power over others.

Not if a have a guide line....A basic "don't be like TIM" rule. This is a question of wheather you can trust your self.

"Also, the answer to your question is a false democracy... usually initiated by fear or power over others."
What fear? My Shepard is not going to have reapers loom over people or races. The races most likely will not see a reaper for generations.

Guidlines can be changed, they arn't concrete... AI's are intelligent, self-thinking machines.

And loke I said Power corrupts. Idealism, like peaceful Shepard as Reaper protecting all, is extremely irrational. Shepard can and will get corrupt, just as people will in a post-synthesis and post-destroy universe.

The Shepard AI is not incorruptible...

But the AI is me...And I decide what is done.

With that I can decide the reaper would be never seen again by all forms of life.

[EnvyTB075]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

2 Again, I was able to "do what needs to be done" quite satisfactilly as a paragon in ME1 and ME2. It' sin ME3 where suddenly you have to be a sith lord to "save" the galaxy. I know you're a stone cold renegade and can't understand that. But try, okay?

You don't have to be a Sith lord. You're never required to do anything immoral.

We'll have to disagree on that, as I find all the choices repugnant.

What's truely immoral about control?

More an insane gamble than outright immoral.  You're pretty much swapping out a part and hoping this time the machine works.

The same can be said with any of the choices. If this story is a bout hope then we can apply that hope to control.

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done....And with that I can decide to let all synthetic life and organic life  live how they will and want.

What is a dictator that lets his /her people make their own goverment?

Please read up on pre-WW1 Germany, where the Kaiser effectively dictated what their Government could and could not do.

Yes, such a scenario can exist.

Eterna5 wrote...
You do realize that the entire purpose of the
reapers was to prevent organic life from going extinct right? And that
before Picking Destroy the Catalyst says that future generations will
build synthetics and the chaos will resume?

And you do realise that you're allowing a 10 foot pole to be shoved in your behind by actually believing that crap, right?

Are you actually trying to suggest that AI's will forever roam the Galaxy, waiting for the first fish to climb out of the oceans just to end the evolution of possible organic at the start?

I knew it, you're both complete and utter morons.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:40 .

[sporeian]

Eterna5 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

What does that have to do with anything?

It means the AI isn't Shepard and will diverge from teh real Shepard once it becomes a seperate entity.  Therefore, there's no way of knowing what it may end up doing eventually.

So? Destroy has the possibility of Organic life going extinct because people rebuild Synthetics. Nobody seems to be questioning that. 

Each of the endings have unknowns. 

Organic life will never go extinct. To claim otherwise is a logical fallacy.

You do realize that the entire purpose of the reapers was to prevent organic life from going extinct right? And that before Picking Destroy the Catalyst says that future generations will build synthetics and the chaos will resume?

Organic Life will never go extinct... sure, maybe SENTIENT life, but evolution will always build up and the machines will more than likely destroy themselves before anything....

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Lets stop pretending that that our final decision is better than everyone else's, because it's simply not true. 

You must have missed the part where I said I found all the ending choices to be repugnant

You found the other 2 choices repungnent based on moral...Which you don't have that issue with control.

The possibility of a ShepReaper going on reaping is not something I'm willing to risk, no.

[Eterna]

sporeian wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

TheShepard ai does what Shepard would do...What Shepard would do I decide. I decide what is done...

"No! I'm in Control! Noone is telling me what to do!"

What does that have to do with anything?

It means the AI isn't Shepard and will diverge from teh real Shepard once it becomes a seperate entity.  Therefore, there's no way of knowing what it may end up doing eventually.

So? Destroy has the possibility of Organic life going extinct because people rebuild Synthetics. Nobody seems to be questioning that. 

Each of the endings have unknowns. 

Organic life will never go extinct. To claim otherwise is a logical fallacy.

You do realize that the entire purpose of the reapers was to prevent organic life from going extinct right? And that before Picking Destroy the Catalyst says that future generations will build synthetics and the chaos will resume?

Organic Life will never go extinct... sure, maybe SENTIENT life, but evolution will always build up and the machines will more than likely destroy themselves before anything....

And what happens when Synthetics take over the galaxy and squash developing life before it can reach a level to oppose them?

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Lets stop pretending that that our final decision is better than everyone else's, because it's simply not true. 

You must have missed the part where I said I found all the ending choices to be repugnant

You found the other 2 choices repungnent based on moral...Which you don't have that issue with control.

The possibility of a ShepReaper going on reaping is not something I'm willing to risk, no.

But what is the posibilities... This is an issue of not trusting yourself with the power. Heck, the sheaprd ai can even decide to have the reapers destroyed.

[sporeian]

dreman9999 wrote...
But the AI is me...And I decide what is done.

With that I can decide the reaper would be never seen again by all forms of life.

You are corruptable...

[EnvyTB075]

Eterna5 wrote...

And what happens when Synthetics take over the galaxy and squash developing life before it can reach a level to oppose them?

Lol, i didn't even have time to address this by editing my post before this spewed forth all over your keyboard.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 15 octobre 2012 - 05:42 .

[Squallypo]

what would flash gordon have done ?