251 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad? I know it's pretty radical, but is it actually evil? The most popular Synthesis interpretation suggests that all it does is the following:

1. Wraps special nanites around DNA that allow organics to more easily augment themselves with technology.

2. Grants synthetics the ability to experience emotions.

That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.

What is so bad about this? There are some ethical issues here, but nothing more troubling than becoming a god of the galaxy or causing the extinction of a specific type of life. It also fulfills Garrus' ironic statement that he makes to Shepard if quarian-geth peace is achieved:

"You're a peacemaker, Shepard. A rare thing these days. Now, if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

EDIT: Also, just look at the final choices:

Destroy - Pro-organic; the chaos of organic evolution is affirmed
Control - Pro-synthetic; the galaxy is controlled by a synthetic intelligence
Synthesis - Pro-organic/synthetic - unity and understanding for both types

Of course, you could interpret Synthesis as anti-organic/synthetic life...

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:22 .

[ZIPO396]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad? I know it's pretty radical, but is it actually evil? The most popular Synthesis interpretation suggests that all it does is the following:

1. Wraps nanites around DNA that allow organics to more easily augment themselves with technology.

2. Grants synthetics the ability to experience emotions.

That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.

What is so bad about this? There are some ethical issues here, but nothing more troubling than becoming a god of the galaxy or causing the extinction of a specific type of life.

You've gotta be careful when you start trying to say what is most popular. I've seen a fair amount of interpretation suggesting that it messes with freewill to some degree.

[Eterna]

No. The people who picked Destroy below me will say otherwise though. Expect a lot of hyperbole and headcannon.

[Balz to the Wall]

I thought synthesis wasn't that bad.

[DuffyMJ]

When I chose it pre-EC I felt it was a big mistake. The human soldiers do not raise their arms/celebrate as they do in destruction & control, and even in EC I don't think that changes. The idea of Reapers walking around "helping" after slaughtering trillions of lives is just not good.

[silentassassin264]

It doesn't mess with free will. The people claiming that are headcanoners that want to believe that synthesis has some Reaper tech infusion. Synthesis is formed by the crucible, which had no Reaper design, and Shepard's "lifeforce" which also was not of Reaper design. The new DNA the catalyst speaks of has no reaper influence at all. People determined to hate the endings are just making up things to reinforce their hatred of the endings.

DuffyMJ wrote...

When I chose it pre-EC I felt it was a big mistake. The human soldiers do not raise their arms/celebrate as they do in destruction & control, and even in EC I don't think that changes. The idea of Reapers walking around "helping" after slaughtering trillions of lives is just not good.

Because the reapers had no choice.  You and people like you are like the Blades in Skyrim.  Determined to kill Paarthunax while completely disregarding going against Alduin was a death sentence.  The Reapers had it worse as they didn't even have the free will to rebel.  It was never an option.  If you can't stand the sight of the Reapers helping afterwards, you are just plain bloodthirsty.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:28 .

[Ithurael]

Listen to yourself!!! You're INDOCTRINATED!!!!

[RadicalDisconnect]

BSN mentality: If you disagree with me, you are terrible and must be killed with fire.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:27 .

[DuffyMJ]

Ithurael wrote...

Listen to yourself!!! You're INDOCTRINATED!!!!

So self righteous! Do you think power like this comes easy?! There are sacrifices! 

[Ithurael]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

BSN  Internet mentality: If you disagree with me, you are terrible.

Fixed

[TheWerdna]

My issue with synthesis is less with being evil, and more with it being completely nonsensical, not fitting the overall themes of the trilogy, going against the existing themes; and overall pants on head retarded.

[WhiteKnyght]

ZIPO396 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad? I know it's pretty radical, but is it actually evil? The most popular Synthesis interpretation suggests that all it does is the following:

1. Wraps nanites around DNA that allow organics to more easily augment themselves with technology.

2. Grants synthetics the ability to experience emotions.

That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.

What is so bad about this? There are some ethical issues here, but nothing more troubling than becoming a god of the galaxy or causing the extinction of a specific type of life.

You've gotta be careful when you start trying to say what is most popular. I've seen a fair amount of interpretation suggesting that it messes with freewill to some degree.

Interpretation is defined as a person's perspective. People who believe the indoctrination theory think it's messing with free will because of anything to do with the Reapers.

And all the slides are relatively similar to the Destroy and Control ones, everyone just has a green tint on their skin, and some are better, like the fully rebuilt tuchanka and the maskless quarians being friendly with the Geth.

Synthesis just turns everyone into cyborgs and is just very very invasive.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Dude.  Plants... with circuit boards in them.  Circuit boards...  that glow...  in plants... after passing through... something.  Something?  Some green stuff, don't worry about it.    

Yeah...

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Good, good....

[ZIPO396]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad? I know it's pretty radical, but is it actually evil? The most popular Synthesis interpretation suggests that all it does is the following:

1. Wraps nanites around DNA that allow organics to more easily augment themselves with technology.

2. Grants synthetics the ability to experience emotions.

That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.

What is so bad about this? There are some ethical issues here, but nothing more troubling than becoming a god of the galaxy or causing the extinction of a specific type of life.

You've gotta be careful when you start trying to say what is most popular. I've seen a fair amount of interpretation suggesting that it messes with freewill to some degree.

Interpretation is defined as a person's perspective. People who believe the indoctrination theory think it's messing with free will because of anything to do with the Reapers.

And all the slides are relatively similar to the Destroy and Control ones, everyone just has a green tint on their skin, and some are better, like the fully rebuilt tuchanka and the maskless quarians being friendly with the Geth.

Synthesis just turns everyone into cyborgs and is just very very invasive.

Oh I know the definition of interpretation. All I mean to say is he was trying to claim that that interpretation of Synthesis is the most popular/common one. When in reality who knows for sure.

[Morty Smith]

No, it´s completely thought out and very thoughtful, with thought.

Wait a minute, my glue went dry. *sniff* Ah, much better now.

EC is awsome!

Modifié par Kroitz, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:52 .

[WhiteKnyght]

ZIPO396 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad? I know it's pretty radical, but is it actually evil? The most popular Synthesis interpretation suggests that all it does is the following:

1. Wraps nanites around DNA that allow organics to more easily augment themselves with technology.

2. Grants synthetics the ability to experience emotions.

That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.

What is so bad about this? There are some ethical issues here, but nothing more troubling than becoming a god of the galaxy or causing the extinction of a specific type of life.

You've gotta be careful when you start trying to say what is most popular. I've seen a fair amount of interpretation suggesting that it messes with freewill to some degree.

Interpretation is defined as a person's perspective. People who believe the indoctrination theory think it's messing with free will because of anything to do with the Reapers.

And all the slides are relatively similar to the Destroy and Control ones, everyone just has a green tint on their skin, and some are better, like the fully rebuilt tuchanka and the maskless quarians being friendly with the Geth.

Synthesis just turns everyone into cyborgs and is just very very invasive.

Oh I know the definition of interpretation. All I mean to say is he was trying to claim that that interpretation of Synthesis is the most popular/common one. When in reality who knows for sure.

The synthesis stigma stems from these simple things.

1. People believe it is too unbelievable based on their opinion of the limits of the technology in the age.

2. People hate the Reapers and hate that the force behind them would be willing to compromise. That hate leads to suspicion and then the next logical opinion from a narrow mind would be indoctrination.

BUT

1. The Reapers are millions of years beyond the modern galaxy in ways of technology. Miranda and Jacob couldn't believe that technology existed that would allow a Collector base to exist in the Galactic core, which is a mass of supernovas and black holes. But Shepard nails in the point that the Reapers have shown feats of technology before, so who were they to say that the Reapers COULDN'T do it. Only the writers themselves could tell us the true extent of the Reapers' technological prowess.

1.2. Genetic modification and cybernetic implants are commonplace in the modern galaxy.

2. The Catalyst quite logically explains why he is willing to help out. Because if your EMS is high, you did well getting there and he's impressed. And if low EMS, he basically says "FU! Do it yourself cause I ain't helping."

[CosmicGnosis]

Okay, you're right. It's the most popular interpretation in this forum. Who knows what everyone else on the internet thinks? My point is that the Synthesis ending really doesn't imply that free will has been removed. In fact, it implies the opposite.

What is the point of showing a restored Tuchanka? What is the point of showing maskless quarians conversing with geth? What is the point of such slides? To fool us into embracing an indoctrinated illusion? Is that really what they mean?

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:00 .

[silentassassin264]

The point of the slides was to let everyone know it was okay. Unfortunately for the devs, they let headcanon fester so long without addressing it that even though there is no logical way to come to a conclusion that synthesis is some sort of mass indoctrination, people who were against it are clinging to their headcanon and ending hate like it is a security blanket. It has pretty much gotten to the point where you are not changing people's minds no matter how coherent your argument is. Casey Hudson could straight up say they are wrong and they wouldn't believe it.

[TheCrazyHobo]

EDI had already shown emotion of love when she decided that she was willing to die for Joker.

AI interface was already shown by the Geth Consensus mission and the existence of the Virtual Aliens.

Synthesis solves nothing. It does not cure racism/xenophobia. It does not mean that the AI who know understand organics are going to always want to co-exist with them. Javik is not going to going to love the Reapers/AI now just because they share the same eye color.

[WhiteKnyght]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Okay, you're right. It's the most popular interpretation in this forum. Who knows what everyone else on the internet thinks? My point is that the Synthesis ending really doesn't imply that free will has been removed. In fact, it implies the opposite.

What is the point of showing a restored Tuchanka? What is the point of showing maskless quarians conversing with geth? What is the point of such slides? To fool us into embracing an indoctrinated illusion? Is that really what they mean?

Exactly, the degree of variance speaks for itself.  Anybody who has Mass Effect: Retribution gets a front row seat of how indoctrination looks from the victim's perspective.

It's subtle, Grayson knew it was happening because he knew what Cerberus did to him and why they did it, but there were plenty of things even he couldn't notice. Such as the Reapers playing around with his gland functions to keep him from committing suicide, or what the Reapers were making him do during random blackouts.

What he did notice was the Reapers stripping him of his free will.

The fact that you can actually chose to Control, Destroy, or Refuse is proof that Shep isn't being indoctrinated. If he were, you would want to choose one of them, but always jump into the laser or just do nothing every time.

[CosmicGnosis]

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EDI had already shown emotion of love when she decided that she was willing to die for Joker.

AI interface was already shown by the Geth Consensus mission and the existence of the Virtual Aliens.

Synthesis solves nothing. It does not cure racism/xenophobia. It does not mean that the AI who know understand organics are going to always want to co-exist with them. Javik is not going to going to love the Reapers/AI now just because they share the same eye color.

The idea is that by establishing an understanding between the types of life, both will be able to empathize with each other's unique perspectives. An organic can comprehend the synthetic perspective, and a synthetic can comprehend the organic perspective. The assumption is that understanding equates to empathy, and empathy will lead to peace.

Also, just look at the final choices:

Destroy - Pro-organic; the chaos of organic evolution is affirmed
Control - Pro-synthetic; the galaxy is controlled by a synthetic intelligence
Synthesis - Pro-organic/synthetic - unity and understanding for both types

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:16 .

[EnvyTB075]

Yes.

/thread.

[TheCrazyHobo]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

EDI had already shown emotion of love when she decided that she was willing to die for Joker.

AI interface was already shown by the Geth Consensus mission and the existence of the Virtual Aliens.

Synthesis solves nothing. It does not cure racism/xenophobia. It does not mean that the AI who know understand organics are going to always want to co-exist with them. Javik is not going to going to love the Reapers/AI now just because they share the same eye color.

The idea is that by establishing an understanding between the types of life, both will be able to empathize with each other's unique perspectives. An organic can comprehend the synthetic perspective, and a synthetic can comprehend the organic perspective. The assumption is that understanding equates to empathy, and empathy will lead to peace.

But we have shown that this is possible WITHOUT the changes made in Synthesis.  Ignorance is the issue as you have stated, and Shepherd can show that a non-synthesis organic can bridge the gap between the two.