251 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

The problem is that we tend to argue the merits of each option from hindsight. And to a large extent the EC validates each decision in order to give the player the feeling of having chosen the right option and therefore having "won".

The point should be what decision would Shepard make based on the information that the Catalyst gives.

It tells us that Synethetics will always fight Organics, that Destroy will affect all synthetics and the technology on which we rely. This is a strong reason to disuade us from choosing Destroy, except we know the first statement is false - which may cause you to doubt the second.

It tells us that Synethsis will allow synthetics to better understand organics, so no longer wanting to kill them, and will fundementally change the DNA of organics at its most basic level. The second assertion seems almost impossible, except that Javik (if you have the DLC) mentions that this was done before during their cycle and effectively meant that the synethetic AI was controling the altered organics. I was initially attracted to Synthesis because I thought I had misunderstood what it was saying because of the "impossibility" of it. However, I did not have the Javik download and therefore was not in possession of all game information. If you acknowledge that what it describes is possible, then essentially you are fundementally altering and thus destroying every organic lifeform in the galaxy, as opposed to one synthetic one.

When I initially chose Synthesis, going against my gut instincts because of the conviction that it wasn't possible to do what I had been told, I was freaked when I saw Joker's eyes and his skin. I realised that apparently what the AI was suggesting was possible and furthermore the results were even worse than I had envisaged. This was before downloading the EC but this hasn't change my opinion of synthesis. The first time I was hoodwinked into accepting it but it does not represent an "ideal" solution to anyone but the AI that suggested it. Which incidentally is still fully operational and in control of the Reapers.

[Purge the heathens]

I see it like this: Synthesis happens regardless of your choice.

Destroy - The species of the galaxy eventually achieve synthesis / a similar state on their own terms.

Control - Same as Destroy, except that necessary advancements in science and technology happen at a faster rate.

Synthesis - Obviously.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Purge the heathens wrote...
I see it like this: Synthesis happens regardless of your choice.

And thus, the run-up to ME4.

Blech. 

[Seival]

DrGunjah wrote...

Seival wrote...
I think that I've seen that before. This is speculation. Game doesn't lie about EDI and the Geth deaths. Those deaths were not shown in details, but we all know the real price for Destroy: at least EDI and the Geth. In the worst case scenario - even most people with vital sinthetic implants, which is logical, because EDI (non-reaper tech) and the Geth (with reaper code upgrades) died.

The only fact is, that we don't have evidence for one or the other. Though while The Twilight God uses logic in his post, you say stuff like "not shown in detail, but we all know...". You speculate about things and then call them fact. If you argue that things happen even if we don't clearly see them, then I can also argue that in sythesis all organics get transformed into little puppies, because you know, we don't see it but we all know it's true!!!!

 - All complicated enough synthetic devices were destroyed: VIs, and AIs. 
 - Ship's targeting computer was not affected, but ship's VI (if any) was destroyed.
 - Any vital synthetic implant can have a VI controlling it, and giving info and suggestions to the user.
 - We also know that some quarinas allowed geth inside their suits and implants. Geth destruction will cause critical system failure in this case. All those quarians will suffer.

I guess this is fact because you wrote it, hm?
You remember the database in the heretics base? What makes this database different from other databases?
Can you tell me how an already fired beam should detect a VI on a storage media? It's the same issue with "reaper code". Maybe it can be distinguished from other code but not by a beam that has already been fired.
Even the catalyst says something like "the crucible doesn't discriminate. all synthetics will die, even you are partly synthetic". But since we don't see evidence for this claim he either is just wrong (unlikely) or he lies (to make destroy look bad).

Are you trying to convince yourself that you can perform Destroy without paying the dire price? Looks like you are...

...You may believe in what you want of course. But tell me. If BioWare will release a DLC with detailed cutscene about EDI, all Geth, and some quarians deaths because of Destroy. What will you do in that case? Remain the true Destroyer "kill the enemy no matter the cost", or choose another ending?

I hope for a fair answer.

[Nightwriter]

fr33stylez wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I will never understand the sheer vehemence of people's response to it. They react to it more indignantly than even Teltin or Horizon, both of which showed actual evidence of acute and abominable human suffering. People are seriously asking me to be more upset about making people glow green against their will than about seeing evidence of a child vivisection lab? Really? Why? Because Synthesis happened on a larger scale? Pfft. Changing people's bodies makes me feel uneasy, not like the vilest monster ever to crawl from the Earth since Hitler.

For me, it's the sheer idiocy of the rationale used to justify such an option:

1) The need to stop a hypothetical conflict in which no evidence was ever presented in the trilogy (besides a new chatacter simply 'telling' you about it in the last 5 minutes)
2) Contradicts evidence presented throughoit the trilogy of synthetics not being hostile (the Geth could've remained synthetic enemies like in ME1, but BW choose to subvert this theme and make Geth and EDI cuddly)
3) Ultimately a theme of 'we can't work together unless we forcfully make everyone the same'. 
4) Reaching the Reaper's doorstep to just agree with the premise of the Reaping. Why did you fight for 3 games if a 5 minute convo was enough to justify Reaping?

I think all these points make Synthesis abhorrent.

Ah, well, idiocy is another matter entirely.

But Synthesis isn't hailed as stupid, it's hailed as evil.

Not very many people run around saying "but this assumes we can't work through our differences on our own!" They run around saying "how dare it force a vile, heinous ungodly change on the unwilling! it makes me sick!"

[InHarmsWay]

Seival wrote...

DrGunjah wrote...

Seival wrote...
I think that I've seen that before. This is speculation. Game doesn't lie about EDI and the Geth deaths. Those deaths were not shown in details, but we all know the real price for Destroy: at least EDI and the Geth. In the worst case scenario - even most people with vital sinthetic implants, which is logical, because EDI (non-reaper tech) and the Geth (with reaper code upgrades) died.

The only fact is, that we don't have evidence for one or the other. Though while The Twilight God uses logic in his post, you say stuff like "not shown in detail, but we all know...". You speculate about things and then call them fact. If you argue that things happen even if we don't clearly see them, then I can also argue that in sythesis all organics get transformed into little puppies, because you know, we don't see it but we all know it's true!!!!

 - All complicated enough synthetic devices were destroyed: VIs, and AIs. 
 - Ship's targeting computer was not affected, but ship's VI (if any) was destroyed.
 - Any vital synthetic implant can have a VI controlling it, and giving info and suggestions to the user.
 - We also know that some quarinas allowed geth inside their suits and implants. Geth destruction will cause critical system failure in this case. All those quarians will suffer.

I guess this is fact because you wrote it, hm?
You remember the database in the heretics base? What makes this database different from other databases?
Can you tell me how an already fired beam should detect a VI on a storage media? It's the same issue with "reaper code". Maybe it can be distinguished from other code but not by a beam that has already been fired.
Even the catalyst says something like "the crucible doesn't discriminate. all synthetics will die, even you are partly synthetic". But since we don't see evidence for this claim he either is just wrong (unlikely) or he lies (to make destroy look bad).

Are you trying to convince yourself that you can perform Destroy without paying the dire price? Looks like you are...

...You may believe in what you want of course. But tell me. If BioWare will release a DLC with detailed cutscene about EDI, all Geth, and some quarians deaths because of Destroy. What will you do in that case? Remain the true Destroyer "kill the enemy no matter the cost", or choose another ending?

I hope for a fair answer.

I would.

EDI and the geth both explicitly told me in ME3 and ME2 that the galaxy must be freed from the reapers at any costs, even if it means their lives. In Destroy the galaxy is freed from their tyranny, from their influence and now can set forth on choosing its own future. While the loss of the geth and EDI is tragic, it was necessary and the galaxy can learn from their sacrifice and learn to coexist with synthetic life.

[Tibbur]

You should listen to EDI in that ending she starts talking like reaper propaganda.

[Argolas]

Tibbur wrote...

You should listen to EDI in that ending she starts talking like reaper propaganda.

Yes... but the most alerting part is the main point: "I am alive".

She was alive before. She felt like alive. She should not talk like that.

[ATiBotka]

Argolas wrote...

Tibbur wrote...

You should listen to EDI in that ending she starts talking like reaper propaganda.

Yes... but the most alerting part is the main point: "I am alive".

She was alive before. She felt like alive. She should not talk like that.

Everyone's indoctrinated in Synthesis.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Nightwriter wrote...
But Synthesis isn't hailed as stupid, it's hailed as evil.

Not very many people run around saying "but this assumes we can't work through our differences on our own!" They run around saying "how dare it force a vile, heinous ungodly change on the unwilling! it makes me sick!"

To be fair I think a lot of people have that "blech" innate response to Synthesis.  I certainly do.  There's just something really gross and creepy about all the glowing green eyes and skin that hits the Uncanny Valley button like the fist of an angry god.  It's not a well-thought out reason to dislike Synthesis, but it's a personally powerful one.

Seival wrote...
...You may believe in what you want of course. But tell me. If BioWare will release a DLC with detailed cutscene about EDI, all Geth, and some quarians deaths because of Destroy. What will you do in that case? Remain the true Destroyer "kill the enemy no matter the cost", or choose another ending?

Light 'em up! 

Though in a more meta sense, I get the distinct feeling that the deaths of EDI and the geth are in the Destroy ending to make it less palatable.  Let's face it--if we could just blow up the Reapers with few casualties, there'd be little reason to pick anything else.  You could apply that meta logic to the Catalyst and say it's lying through its teeth to make Destroy less appealing, but I think that's taking it a little far.

[Volc19]

ATiBotka wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Tibbur wrote...

You should listen to EDI in that ending she starts talking like reaper propaganda.

Yes... but the most alerting part is the main point: "I am alive".

She was alive before. She felt like alive. She should not talk like that.

Everyone's indoctrinated in Synthesis.

[citation needed]

[Ubergrog]

My biggest issue with synthesis is that it ends the story of the ME3 universe. There is no possible progress or antagonist that can be made in the galaxy once everyone and everything is unified in just that manner.

[Spectre Impersonator]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad?

Yes. 

[WheatleyHQ]

I pick Synthesis in every one of my playthroughs. I just like the originality of it.

[Spectre Impersonator]

WheatleyHQ wrote...

I pick Synthesis in every one of my playthroughs. I just like the originality of it.

But it was blatantly ripped from Deus Ex.

[WheatleyHQ]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

WheatleyHQ wrote...

I pick Synthesis in every one of my playthroughs. I just like the originality of it.

But it was blatantly ripped from Deus Ex.

I'm afraid I've never played that game (or games? not sure). I've heard of it, just never played it. But, you do have a point.

[jpraelster93]

Yes its that bad

[Shepard108278]

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

[Mr.House]

Shepard108278 wrote...

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

You violate everyone in the galaxy and change their dna against their will and let the Reapers go without so much as a slap on the hand despite the fact they have killed over trillions of people. This affects every living creature, even races that are not yet ready for technology, or did we forget what the salarian influence did to the krogans?

[TJBartlemus]

Shepard108278 wrote...

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

Poetic huh? Yeah...no. Here is another example of synthesis for ya. 

http://t3.gstatic.co...MPQCxCoDSYGdhdT

[Shepard108278]

Mr.House wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

You violate everyone in the galaxy and change their dna against their will and let the Reapers go without so much as a slap on the hand despite the fact they have killed over trillions of people. This affects every living creature, even races that are not yet ready for technology, or did we forget what the salarian influence did to the krogans?

It's a matter of the greater good IMO Sometimes you have to forgive even your worst enemy if it's the best choice. IMO it is. I see the moral and ethical implications however I see it as our true destiny.

[Shepard108278]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

Poetic huh? Yeah...no. Here is another example of synthesis for ya. 

http://t3.gstatic.co...MPQCxCoDSYGdhdT

Terrible game with a terrible ending ME does it right.

[ghost9191]

Shepard108278 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

Poetic huh? Yeah...no. Here is another example of synthesis for ya. 

http://t3.gstatic.co...MPQCxCoDSYGdhdT

Terrible game with a terrible ending ME does it right.

www.youtube.com/watch

[JBPBRC]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

Poetic huh? Yeah...no. Here is another example of synthesis for ya. 

http://t3.gstatic.co...MPQCxCoDSYGdhdT

I just remembered, they even melt you down into goo to achieve the Unity. Damn it Starchild...

[Shepard108278]

ghost9191 wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I tend to choose synthisis as a Paragon because IMO it's not an evil choice it's the best choice for all of us. We all become one quite poetic IMO.

Poetic huh? Yeah...no. Here is another example of synthesis for ya. 

http://t3.gstatic.co...MPQCxCoDSYGdhdT

Terrible game with a terrible ending ME does it right.

www.youtube.com/watch

I have the right to my opinion. I hate Dues Ex and think ME did it far better.