251 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Cough*Eugenics*Cough

Eugenics can be positive too, you know.
also, you should get that cough checked out.

[Ieldra]

Synthesis....

(1) ....does not adversely affect "free will". There is zero evidence for that, and it cannot plausibly be inferred from the exposition or the epilogue without discarding significant parts of what is shown or said - so it doesn't happen.
(2) ....does not remove species diversity. Watch the epilogue. From the exposition, it appears to make changes or add in aspects all organics already have in common (DNA).
(3) ....deals with the Reapers based on the hypothesis that they are mind-controlled by the Catalyst. Why this is a very plausible hypothesis I have outlined in this pre-EC thread.

So...no, it is not bad. The only problematic aspect is that you're making these changes without consent.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:34 .

[Sauron001]

Haha while studying for philosophy I cam across Eugenics.... According to this it would be morally wrong which I agree I will elaborate it you wish.

[EnvyTB075]

Eugenics, reminds me of Immortal (Ad Vitam) every time....perhaps thats why i love Turians so much, the Blue haired chick is haaaaaaaaaaaawt

[Sauron001]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Cough*Eugenics*Cough

Eugenics can be positive too, you know.
also, you should get that cough checked out.

True but not when it comes to taking diversity and free will/choice away from a person....and this is an entire Galaxy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:41 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sauron001 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Cough*Eugenics*Cough

Eugenics can be positive too, you know.
also, you should get that cough checked out.

True but not when it comes to taking diversity and free will/choice away from a person....and this is an entire Galaxy.

Except it doesn't do that.

[EnvyTB075]

Before i go on, i'd just like to point out how incredibly funny it is to see two Geth avatars one after the other, "facing" each other, with green and red as the mood colours.

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

I doubt that the little 5 year old girl hiding from Reapers had any knowledge whatsoever about the Crucible, let alone what was going on in general.

The Galaxy didn't accept, Shepard (stupidly) accepted, and Hackett was doing his best to not act like an Admiral and actually draw up sound strategies to fight the Reapers instead of relying on a thing that no one knows anything about or what it would do.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:45 .

[Ieldra]

Sauron001 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Cough*Eugenics*Cough

Eugenics can be positive too, you know.
also, you should get that cough checked out.

True but not when it comes to taking diversity and free will/choice away from a person....and this is an entire Galaxy.

Just in case you didn't read the post two above yours:

Synthesis....

(1) ....does not adversely affect "free will". There is zero evidence for that, and it cannot plausibly be inferred from the exposition or the epilogue without discarding significant parts of what is shown or said - so it doesn't happen.
(2) ....does not remove species diversity. Watch the epilogue. From the exposition, it appears to make changes or add in aspects all organics already have in common (DNA).
(3) ....deals with the Reapers based on the hypothesis that they are mind-controlled by the Catalyst. Why this is a very plausible hypothesis I have outlined in this pre-EC thread.

So...no, it is not bad. The only problematic aspect is that you're making these changes without consent.

[Sauron001]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Sauron001 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Cough*Eugenics*Cough

Eugenics can be positive too, you know.
also, you should get that cough checked out.

True but not when it comes to taking diversity and free will/choice away from a person....and this is an entire Galaxy.

Except it doesn't do that.

Except your making a choice for the entire galaxy....ergo yes it does. Each individual would have to make that choice for it to be morally right.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

I doubt that the little 5 year old girl hiding from Reapers had any knowledge whatsoever about the Crucible, let alone what was going on in general.

The Galaxy didn't accept, Shepard (stupidly) accepted, and Hackett was doing his best to not act like an Admiral and actually draw up sound strategies to fight the Reapers instead of relying on a thing that no one knows anything about or what it would do.

But her government did. As for the rest, with conventional warfare not an option, you will go for whatever promises the hope of victory.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sauron001 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Sauron001 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Cough*Eugenics*Cough

Eugenics can be positive too, you know.
also, you should get that cough checked out.

True but not when it comes to taking diversity and free will/choice away from a person....and this is an entire Galaxy.

Except it doesn't do that.

Except your making a choice for the entire galaxy....ergo yes it does. Each individual would have to make that choice for it to be morally right.

Galactic governments accepted use of Crucible, therefore whatever the result, they consented to it.

[Sauron001]

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]Sauron001 wrote...

[quote]LDS Darth Revan wrote...

[quote]Finn the Jakey wrote...

 [/quote] The only problematic aspect is that you're making these changes without consent.


[/quote]

This is the basis; you take free will and diversity away not giving the people the chance to advance on their own

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sauron001 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Cough*Eugenics*Cough

Eugenics can be positive too, you know.
also, you should get that cough checked out.

True but not when it comes to taking diversity and free will/choice away from a person....and this is an entire Galaxy.

Just in case you didn't read the post two above yours:

Synthesis....

(1) ....does not adversely affect "free will". There is zero evidence for that, and it cannot plausibly be inferred from the exposition or the epilogue without discarding significant parts of what is shown or said - so it doesn't happen.
(2) ....does not remove species diversity. Watch the epilogue. From the exposition, it appears to make changes or add in aspects all organics already have in common (DNA).
(3) ....deals with the Reapers based on the hypothesis that they are mind-controlled by the Catalyst. Why this is a very plausible hypothesis I have outlined in this pre-EC thread.

So...no, it is not bad. The only problematic aspect is that you're making these changes without consent.

I saw it, and agree with your three points. As for last bit, this page has my answer on it.

[EnvyTB075]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

I doubt that the little 5 year old girl hiding from Reapers had any knowledge whatsoever about the Crucible, let alone what was going on in general.

The Galaxy didn't accept, Shepard (stupidly) accepted, and Hackett was doing his best to not act like an Admiral and actually draw up sound strategies to fight the Reapers instead of relying on a thing that no one knows anything about or what it would do.

But her government did. As for the rest, with conventional warfare not an option, you will go for whatever promises the hope of victory.

And her Government has what right to change, against her will, her genetic structure?

As for Conventional warfare....why is it all referred to as conventional? I'd hardly call teaming up all the races, Geth and Rachni included, along with the Leviathans with their shiny orbs of mindcontrolly-ness that can control Reapers themselves light years across the galaxy, conventional.

Also, we could get into that argument about whether it was possible (conventional warfare) or not, but there are a number of threads for that already.

[Sauron001]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

I doubt that the little 5 year old girl hiding from Reapers had any knowledge whatsoever about the Crucible, let alone what was going on in general.

The Galaxy didn't accept, Shepard (stupidly) accepted, and Hackett was doing his best to not act like an Admiral and actually draw up sound strategies to fight the Reapers instead of relying on a thing that no one knows anything about or what it would do.

But her government did. As for the rest, with conventional warfare not an option, you will go for whatever promises the hope of victory.

And her Government has what right to change, against her will, her genetic structure?

As for Conventional warfare....why is it all referred to as conventional? I'd hardly call teaming up all the races, Geth and Rachni included, along with the Leviathans with their shiny orbs of mindcontrolly-ness that can control Reapers themselves light years across the galaxy, conventional.

Also, we could get into that argument about whether it was possible (conventional warfare) or not, but there are a number of threads for that already.

We would lose a conventional warfare....which is why would move towards guerilla tactics hitting them hard and fast and maybe utilizing the reaper signal cerberus had made to confuse the ground troops. and yeah i could go on but nvm

[Hanako Ikezawa]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

I doubt that the little 5 year old girl hiding from Reapers had any knowledge whatsoever about the Crucible, let alone what was going on in general.

The Galaxy didn't accept, Shepard (stupidly) accepted, and Hackett was doing his best to not act like an Admiral and actually draw up sound strategies to fight the Reapers instead of relying on a thing that no one knows anything about or what it would do.

But her government did. As for the rest, with conventional warfare not an option, you will go for whatever promises the hope of victory.

And her Government has what right to change, against her will, her genetic structure?

As for Conventional warfare....why is it all referred to as conventional? I'd hardly call teaming up all the races, Geth and Rachni included, along with the Leviathans with their shiny orbs of mindcontrolly-ness that can control Reapers themselves light years across the galaxy, conventional.

Also, we could get into that argument about whether it was possible (conventional warfare) or not, but there are a number of threads for that already.

It's conventional in the sense that "two sides fight, stronger wins". The government is supposed to represent their species interests. Does this always happen with everybody, no. But the same can be said about all endings, so as I originally stated, the "against the galaxy's will" argument can't be used since it doesn't affect a certain ending

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:01 .

[Sauron001]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

I doubt that the little 5 year old girl hiding from Reapers had any knowledge whatsoever about the Crucible, let alone what was going on in general.

The Galaxy didn't accept, Shepard (stupidly) accepted, and Hackett was doing his best to not act like an Admiral and actually draw up sound strategies to fight the Reapers instead of relying on a thing that no one knows anything about or what it would do.

But her government did. As for the rest, with conventional warfare not an option, you will go for whatever promises the hope of victory.

And her Government has what right to change, against her will, her genetic structure?

As for Conventional warfare....why is it all referred to as conventional? I'd hardly call teaming up all the races, Geth and Rachni included, along with the Leviathans with their shiny orbs of mindcontrolly-ness that can control Reapers themselves light years across the galaxy, conventional.

Also, we could get into that argument about whether it was possible (conventional warfare) or not, but there are a number of threads for that already.

It's conventional in the sense that "two sides fight, stronger wins". The government is supposed to represent their species interests. Does this always happen with everybody, no. But the same can be said about all endings, so as I originally stated(maybe not in this thread), the "against galaxy's will" argument can't be used since it doesn't affect a certain ending

Conventional warfare (from a soldier): is when two opposing sides gather their forces and meet on the battlefield and the victor wins the battle/war by completely crushing the enemy..... guerilla warfare has no large moving force but breaks them down into strike teams that hit weak points/ vulnerabilites. Prevents heavy lose of casualties and allows for a pro-longed ability to fight

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sauron001 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The galaxy accepted using the Crucible, even though they didn't know what it would do. Therefore, they accepted whatever outcome occured. If it wasnt for this fact, I would agree on the "without galaxy's consent" argument.

I doubt that the little 5 year old girl hiding from Reapers had any knowledge whatsoever about the Crucible, let alone what was going on in general.

The Galaxy didn't accept, Shepard (stupidly) accepted, and Hackett was doing his best to not act like an Admiral and actually draw up sound strategies to fight the Reapers instead of relying on a thing that no one knows anything about or what it would do.

But her government did. As for the rest, with conventional warfare not an option, you will go for whatever promises the hope of victory.

And her Government has what right to change, against her will, her genetic structure?

As for Conventional warfare....why is it all referred to as conventional? I'd hardly call teaming up all the races, Geth and Rachni included, along with the Leviathans with their shiny orbs of mindcontrolly-ness that can control Reapers themselves light years across the galaxy, conventional.

Also, we could get into that argument about whether it was possible (conventional warfare) or not, but there are a number of threads for that already.

It's conventional in the sense that "two sides fight, stronger wins". The government is supposed to represent their species interests. Does this always happen with everybody, no. But the same can be said about all endings, so as I originally stated(maybe not in this thread), the "against galaxy's will" argument can't be used since it doesn't affect a certain ending

Conventional warfare (from a soldier): is when two opposing sides gather their forces and meet on the battlefield and the victor wins the battle/war by completely crushing the enemy..... guerilla warfare has no large moving force but breaks them down into strike teams that hit weak points/ vulnerabilites. Prevents heavy lose of casualties and allows for a pro-longed ability to fight

Doesn't disprove conventional warfare is impossible, and Reapers can wipe out guerilla warfare prowess just as easily.

[Applepie_Svk]

First level of wrong in common with synthesis are just these few sentences ....

Synthesis will occure...

Synthesis is inevitable...

It´s something which cannot be forced...

And yet when Catalyst by his own conclusion said that synthesis will occure, he is forcing it upon the galaxy thru his band of brothers in form of instant change of everything and everyone, so synthesis is not inevitable otherwise he wouldn´t force it.

Second level of what´s wrong is what about all those primitives ?

I don´t know how can be some poor caveman be prepared for such a change...

Third level of what´s wrong with synthesis ?

ofc eugenics....

---------------------------------

And some of you are deffending synthesis that is not mindwashing ... kay so synthesis is not mindwash, but then please explain me what will happen to all those violent species since the stone age which were instantly changed into cyborgs... ?

Look at the yaghs ? Or the krogans under the bannern of Wreav ? Do you honestly believe that with such a power and knowlendge they would stop ? No they wouldn´t, they would proceed in war as soon they would get their numbers...

Look at the krogans after what they were uplifted .... the technology have changed them, they killed each other only because of they get the technology which was beyond their understanding.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 15 octobre 2012 - 08:21 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

I think everyone would rather die than become abominations in the Synthesis ending.

They aren't abominations. Everyone is the same person as they were before.

[DrGunjah]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Just in case you didn't read the post two above yours:

Synthesis....

(1) ....does not adversely affect "free will". There is zero evidence for that, and it cannot plausibly be inferred from the exposition or the epilogue without discarding significant parts of what is shown or said - so it doesn't happen.
(2) ....does not remove species diversity. Watch the epilogue. From the exposition, it appears to make changes or add in aspects all organics already have in common (DNA).
(3) ....deals with the Reapers based on the hypothesis that they are mind-controlled by the Catalyst. Why this is a very plausible hypothesis I have outlined in this pre-EC thread.

So...no, it is not bad. The only problematic aspect is that you're making these changes without consent.

posting it twice doesn't make it true :innocent:

Even if you assume, that it's not a trap and that this hyper complex experiment actually works:
How does turning every organic race in the galaxy into cyborgs not affect free will? You even affect all the "primitives" that were not supposed to be harvested in this cycle. For the synthetics it's cool, of course. They get enlightment about organic life.
Maybe organic and synthetic life would already coexist in peace since ages if the reapers wouldn't stop evolution every 50.000 years? Bad logic is bad... and holoboy has lots of it.