251 réponses à ce sujet

[Village_Idiot]

Hey guys what's going on h...

Seival wrote...

I think that spontaneous Synthesis can cause a lot of social problems with some negative long-term consequences. So I believe that Synthesis and all its possible consequences (including social) should be studied much more. Maybe even simulated or tested on some large group of volunteers and/or terminally ill people.

[Hurbster]

Synthesis ? It was better in Deus Ex:Invisible War. And I hated that game.

[Bill Casey]

Seival wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Seival wrote...

There are also people who refuse the Synthesis anyway. They could be moved to some star cluster and wait till Synthesis is performed with Mass Relays turned off in that cluster. All who wanted Synthesis will be synthesized, and all who wanted to keep the old ways will stay in unsynthesized reservations. This is what only Catalyst-Shepard is able to do. 

So you are forcibly moving people from their homes and onto reservations to get away from your human experimentation...
Lovely...

Those people will not be forced, they will go for a compromise. It's much better than turning them into something they don't want to be. Synthesis is irreversible. And refusers can build new homes. They will be greatful for their opinion was noticed.

And where do I sign up for the resistance movement?
The one that does everything in its power to stop you...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 16 octobre 2012 - 12:17 .

[Quintega]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad? I know it's pretty radical, but is it actually evil? The most popular Synthesis interpretation suggests that all it does is the following:

1. Wraps special nanites around DNA that allow organics to more easily augment themselves with technology.

2. Grants synthetics the ability to experience emotions.

That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.

What is so bad about this? There are some ethical issues here, but nothing more troubling than becoming a god of the galaxy or causing the extinction of a specific type of life. It also fulfills Garrus' ironic statement that he makes to Shepard if quarian-geth peace is achieved:

"You're a peacemaker, Shepard. A rare thing these days. Now, if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

EDIT: Also, just look at the final choices:

Destroy - Pro-organic; the chaos of organic evolution is affirmed
Control - Pro-synthetic; the galaxy is controlled by a synthetic intelligence
Synthesis - Pro-organic/synthetic - unity and understanding for both types

Of course, you could interpret Synthesis as anti-organic/synthetic life...

"The strengths of both, With the Weakness of Neither." Saren before being killed or commiting Suicide in ME1. Yeah not only does it make you feel like an **** but it makes Bioware a hypocrite

[ZerebusPrime]

Synthesis continues to creep me out. My instincts decry it as an abomination of existence. My intellect tells me that no good has ever come from any solution offered by the Reapers. There is literally no example of the Reapers helping anyone without also subverting and/or enslaving them.

[CosmicGnosis]

Here is a question for those of you who so vehemently despise Synthesis:

What is your opinion of Synthesis supporters?

[justafan]

I've said it once, I'll say it again. The path to hell is paved with the best intentions.

Synthesis may look nice on the outside, but it is just too much in the name of the greater good. We don't know its full impact and what is given up, if anything. I for one would not be willing to take that risk, especially considering all life in the galaxy is on the line.

[Necrotron]

It's a fine choice, as long as you weren't playing Mass Effect for 100+ hours before you came to that conclusion.

[DrGunjah]

justafan wrote...
The path to hell is paved with the best intentions.

this

[Eterna]

DrGunjah wrote...

justafan wrote...
The path to hell is paved with the best intentions.

this

Tis logic can be applied to all the endings though. 

[dorktainian]

synthesis would work if (and only if) it were introduced as a gradual consequence of actions needed to defeat the reapers. As it is it is just lame. Wham bam. You just melded with your toaster. Congrats.

[Sable Rhapsody]

CosmicGnosis wrote...
Here is a question for those of you who so vehemently despise Synthesis:

What is your opinion of Synthesis supporters?

That's asking for a world of trouble.  Personally, every position has its ****s and its intelligent posters.  Synthesis is no different.

I hate Synthesis with the fury of a thousand suns, but it's because Synthesis for me elicits a powerful "ick" response, akin to sympathetic puking.  I know it's not a rational explanation for why I dislike it so intensely, but it's also not going to go away any time soon.  So I'll stick to my destroy, and let others argue more rationally about the endings.

[CosmicGnosis]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...
Here is a question for those of you who so vehemently despise Synthesis:

What is your opinion of Synthesis supporters?

That's asking for a world of trouble.  Personally, every position has its ****s and its intelligent posters.  Synthesis is no different.

I hate Synthesis with the fury of a thousand suns, but it's because Synthesis for me elicits a powerful "ick" response, akin to sympathetic puking.  I know it's not a rational explanation for why I dislike it so intensely, but it's also not going to go away any time soon.  So I'll stick to my destroy, and let others argue more rationally about the endings.

I also have that "ick" feeling for choosing Destroy and causing the extinction of synthetic life. For all the pro-organic sentiments of that choice, I can't help but feel that I'm making a horrible statement about synthetic life.

[Sable Rhapsody]

CosmicGnosis wrote...
I also have that "ick" feeling for choosing Destroy and causing the extinction of synthetic life. For all the pro-organic sentiments of that choice, I can't help but feel that I'm making a horrible statement about synthetic life.

Oh, I'm not saying I feel great about Destroy.  Killing allies and friends doesn't thrill me either.  

But your "ick" feeling for Destroy seems to still be predicated on some reasoning about the value of synthetic life.  For me with Synthesis, it really is just "UGH, that's gross." Creepy glowing green eyes and Reapers and all that, triggers the Uncanny Valley like nobody's business.

It's hardly a thought-out opinion, which is why I usually don't discuss Synthesis.  And TBH I think it's a reaction that at least some other folks around here had to Synthesis.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 16 octobre 2012 - 09:51 .

[PinkysPain]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice

It's hated because it's presented as sunshine and lollipops ... in the end any option offered by the starchild will be hated because the starchild is hated.

Alt-f4 is best ending by far.

[azerSheppard]

It's simple, people are stupid. They will gladly chose "refuse" and doom all life instead of getting a few green lines and a "utopia". Because everyone knows that living in a utopia is boring and unrealistic and blablablabla.

[Element_Zero]

Originally I wasn't going to write anymore about the endings but . . . I guess it's time to make a few exceptions.

CosmicGnosis wrote...
....
That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.
....

Partly OP that is the reason why I'm not so certain it's really going to change the attitudes of others so easily. Infact I hate to say it, but this solution may cause more problems than one realizes.

I still think chaos - war is still going to happen. By not changing those attitudes I was left with a bit of a WTF moment. After all dose anyone really think some are not going to hold a grudge?

Why did the Quarians seem so dam blood thirsty even though the Geth spared them? Did they even try sending a Envoy to resolve their differences? No? Why didn't they? So if you still have 'free will' how does it solve prejustices that will be held by those who've felt they have been wronged? And in some cases horribly so.

And how dose this stop anyone later from still making pure synthetics latter on? Or finding ways to remove the synthesis components? Or organic life from forming natually on it's own. Which begs another question. What if the 'organic's' bodies start rejecting these components?

Also fighting will continue on in the universe rather one likes it or not. At some point someone will start fighting over resources, societal pressures, as well as other things. So to me it didn't really solve anything despite the flowery ending.

I also have wondered a bit about the 'lighted' child / catylist / star child (er whatever folks are calling him,) logic. He said he's tried it before, but they were not ready. So he forced his 'solution' by litterally turning everything harvested into reapers. Which to me is a sort of inverse (perhapse perverse,) Synthesis rather anyone realizes it or not. In fact I almost laughed when Shepard had a line in there that went something like .  . . "We might as well be machines." when responding to the starchild's attempt to explain the harvesting. I was like um, hello? the bastard is trying to turn everyone into a organic machine. You fought in ME 2 trying to keep yourself from becoming a reaper!

Modifié par Element_Zero, 16 octobre 2012 - 10:42 .

[thearbiter1337]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Synthesis seems to be the most hated choice, but is it really that bad? I know it's pretty radical, but is it actually evil? The most popular Synthesis interpretation suggests that all it does is the following:

1. Wraps special nanites around DNA that allow organics to more easily augment themselves with technology.

2. Grants synthetics the ability to experience emotions.

That's it. Nothing else. Free will is maintained. In fact, organics have never before had so much free will. With Synthesis, the possibilities for advancement really are endless.

What is so bad about this? There are some ethical issues here, but nothing more troubling than becoming a god of the galaxy or causing the extinction of a specific type of life. It also fulfills Garrus' ironic statement that he makes to Shepard if quarian-geth peace is achieved:

"You're a peacemaker, Shepard. A rare thing these days. Now, if you can pacify the Reapers, we'll make you a saint."

EDIT: Also, just look at the final choices:

Destroy - Pro-organic; the chaos of organic evolution is affirmed
Control - Pro-synthetic; the galaxy is controlled by a synthetic intelligence
Synthesis - Pro-organic/synthetic - unity and understanding for both types

Of course, you could interpret Synthesis as anti-organic/synthetic life...

In sythesis it's pretty damn tyrannt to just make one dicision to change everything,everyone.

[dorktainian]

destroy. reapers lose.
control. reapers win.
synthesis. reapers win.

and this is complicated because?

[LilLino]

Synthesis can be interpreted 2 ways

1) Mind wash so there's no war and eternal peace. Reapers are all good and sunshine.
Still, it's a brain wash and it destroys self determination.

2) No brain wash, free will and just enhancements for everyone. But then, there's still no equality, they'll never be true peace between people and Shepard dies just to make everyone half robot half man.

I don't like Synthesis because it's the ending that agrees with the Catalyst the most. Organic life is flawed and needs to be altered or it'll destroy itself. This is such absolute it's ridiculous, especially from human perspective.
It's noone's decision to be made and Catalyst being the murderer he is has no right to judge ANYONE.

[DrGunjah]

Eterna5 wrote...

DrGunjah wrote...

justafan wrote...
The path to hell is paved with the best intentions.

this

Tis logic can be applied to all the endings though. 

Indeed, though with destroy you do exactly what you told the people you would do.
You use the crucible to defeat the reapers. And people knew that this was not going to be a war where you can save everyone. Some will die, some will live, but those that live can make their own future. If that's getting killed by synthetics one day, so be it. But we don't know.
With synthesis you not only affect every primitive race that doesn't know **** about the reaper threat and wasn't even to be harvested in this cycle. You potentially kill 50.000 years of evolution by synthesis! We don't even know what happens to lower lifeforms, will they ever evolve? What happens to a hamster that gets reaper implants?
Then, for the galactic civilization you either force peace through mindcontrol (often declined here) or by fear of the reaper overlords because by no means every organic race approves cyborg implants.
So uhm lets say you cured the genophage with wreav and eve died. Will the krogans spread all over the galaxy now or would the reapers destroy them? Likely the latter... "so you don't want peace? that's too bad, we will have to kill your race and then maybe harvest you, just for the case..."
You stop life from evolving because you force the galaxy to follow your path. That's a similar problem like with control, but control is far less intrusive.

[Argolas]

Hint:

There already are two synthesized races, the Reapers and the Collectors. Both can be controlled directly: Leviathans can control Reapers, Harbinger can ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL over Collectors as we know.

Coincidence?

Modifié par Argolas, 16 octobre 2012 - 10:55 .

[Seival]

dorktainian wrote...

destroy. reapers lose.
control. reapers win.
synthesis. reapers win.

...That was a pure emotional opinion. And here is the reasonable opinion:

Control
Leviathans win, Shepard's legacy is alive (Shepard-Catalyst). Casualties: the original Catalyst, Shepard.

Synthesis 
Leviathans win, Shepard's legacy is dead. Casualties: only Shepard.

Destory
Leviathans win, Shepard's legacy is alive (for a while). Casualties: Geth, EDI, people with vital synthetic implants. 

Refusal
Leviathans failed (for this time), Shepard's legacy is dead. Casualties: everyone except Leviathans.