175 réponses à ce sujet

[Wawos]

Nay to Protheans.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

OP, I agree, but I can't help but think we'll see them at some point.

[Dark Tlaloc]

corporal doody wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Problem is, this can be said of literally every kit in the game.

Why did people want Volus? No one cared about playing support; they just wanted to be Volus. While I'm glad they worked out, the Volus kits could've worked with any race. So if we look at that example, what's the problem surrounding Protheans?

extinction

Except what would be stopping Bioware from releasing this note before/after an operation:

"Thanks to our success at grabbing reaper intelligence during *insert operation name*, we have located a planet in a remote sector of the galaxy which appears to have another Prothean colony showing low levels of life support. We have obtained a few functioning stasis pods and are in the process of attempting revival of the protheans contained therein."

Sure, it takes a little impact from Javik's story in singleplayer (except not really; maybe these protheans will only fight in the outer reaches), but it's easy to write, and fits in fine.

Modifié par Dark Tlaloc, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:32 .

[Rudest]

@Rokayt:


If Protheans are added in such a way that doesn't cheapen Javik, or make him insignificant, I would be fine with it. Cloning is a bit of a cliche.

I'd prefer some single player DLC that makes the introduction of a small handful of Protheans tied to Javik and Shepard finding them---Something with intricacy, tied to Javik's growth as a character. Something personal. This would go a long way in changing people's attitude about Protheans in MP. Most of us don't want them because of the damage we feel it would do to Javik. If it impacted Javik in a positive way---and he grew as a character? That would be the best case scenario.

I doubt this will happen however! Single player and multiplayer content are two separate dev teams if I'm not mistaken!

If they devs add them, I'm sure they'll find a tasteful way to approach it. If you look at our DLC they do listen to what we want---And then they put their own twist on it to make it interesting and unexpected

(Examples: We wanted Ex-Cerberus? They gave us Pheonix Soldiers, we wanted Turian Mobility? We got Turian's with jet packs! We wanted Vorcha and Batarians? We got them, with amazing omni-weaponry and interesting abilities!)

On the other hand. It's pretty evident that Prothean stasis technology wasn't an isolated phenomenon. It was likely widely spread throughout the empire. The success rate is ridiculously low. During centuries of archeology, we found one Prothean. We'd need a good reason. Like a military or political sector feeding off civilian and slave pods to survive.

In short, to bring Protheans back and it to be acceptable is just a matter of good believable writing. A writer can write his way out of any situation in a tasteful manner if he/she puts his/her mind, creativity, and talent to it! Anyone who doesn't believe that is narrowmined and lacks faith in artistic ingenuity.

With Protheans, it's just a very narrow window. We either end up with baggage that cheapen's Javik's worth----or we get a masterpiece. There is hardly room for anything inbetween, which makes it a daunting dangerous endeavor for Bioware to even touch!

Modifié par Rudest, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:43 .

[corporal doody]

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Problem is, this can be said of literally every kit in the game.

Why did people want Volus? No one cared about playing support; they just wanted to be Volus. While I'm glad they worked out, the Volus kits could've worked with any race. So if we look at that example, what's the problem surrounding Protheans?

extinction

Except what would be stopping Bioware from releasing this note before/after an operation:

"Thanks to our success and grabbing reaper intelligence during *insert operation name*, we have located a planet in a remote sector of the galaxy which appears to have another Prothean colony showing low levels of life support. We have obtained a few functioning stasis pods and are in the process of attempting revival of the protheans contained therein."

Sure, it takes a little impact from Javik's story in singleplayer (except not really; maybe these protheans will only fight in the outer reaches), but it's easy to write, and fits in fine.

amatuerish, cliche', and fanficish ideas....like IT

.... there are thousands of similar threads to this one...all ways to bring them in are made....none of them mean anything because they arent official.

in the end it is BW's choice to make and there is nuthin we can say or do....but i for one do not want them in ME3MP

Modifié par corporal doody, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:32 .

[VaultingFrog]

The only way I could ever endure something like this would be if each species was given a passive, species related trait that only they can possess and only affects other species that they play with.

For instance:
Humans are the jack-of-all-trades so a 3% bonus to all tech, combat and biotic skills and 1% weapon damage bonus when having one involved in combat.

Asari: 4-5% bonus to recharge and damage of biotic powers with one in your squad

Salarians: 3% faster hack times and 2% tech damage with one in a squad

Krogan: 3% more health and 2% melee damage with one in a squad

Quarrians: 3% faster drone escorts and 2% tech recharge time with one in a squad

Vorcha: 0.5 health regen a second and 3% melee damage with one in a squad

Batarians: 3% shields and 2% health with one in squad

Turians: 3% weapon damage bonus and 2% weapon stability with one in squad

Volus (god I hate having them in there but I have to include them unfortunately): 4% extra credits per successful mission wave 1% shield recharge rate with one in squad

"Prothians": 3% shield recharge rate and 2% biotic recharge rate with one in squad

Mind you those species bonuses affect all players involved in each match but only from when they join so if a Volus (god forbid) joins at wave 10 you wont retroactively get 4% extra creds from waves 3 and 6. This is the only way I could see adding in the Prothians or any other species really. Elcor I am ok with as they do have a standing military and are quite powerful. Volus were a mistake plain and simple and I will leave it at that.

In any case this is the only argument I could come up with in answer to your quiry. Its rough but the idea is there I think.

[stefbomb]

Look, to a degree I agree with you Rokayt but taking your argument to its extreme, why don't we just have only human characters? Or even just stick figures. I mean, if they do the same things our characters do now why not just make them all look like they came from Minecraft?

It's because appearance matters. The look and feel of a character matters. Variety (even only visual/auditory) matters. And to some extent lore matters. I know that I'd be playing the Batarians a lot more if they weren't fugly slavers...

Modifié par stefbomb, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:36 .

[Dark Tlaloc]

corporal doody wrote...

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Problem is, this can be said of literally every kit in the game.

Why did people want Volus? No one cared about playing support; they just wanted to be Volus. While I'm glad they worked out, the Volus kits could've worked with any race. So if we look at that example, what's the problem surrounding Protheans?

extinction

Except what would be stopping Bioware from releasing this note before/after an operation:

"Thanks to our success and grabbing reaper intelligence during *insert operation name*, we have located a planet in a remote sector of the galaxy which appears to have another Prothean colony showing low levels of life support. We have obtained a few functioning stasis pods and are in the process of attempting revival of the protheans contained therein."

Sure, it takes a little impact from Javik's story in singleplayer (except not really; maybe these protheans will only fight in the outer reaches), but it's easy to write, and fits in fine.

amatuerish, cliche', and fanficish ideas....like IT

.... there are thousands of similar threads to this one...all ways to bring them in are made....none of them mean anything because they arent official.

in the end it is BW's choice to make and there is nuthin we can say or do....but i for one do not want them in ME3MP

While I don't disagree that it's a lazy fix, that's why the Bioware writers get paid to do the writing--So that the explantion is more fleshed-out than the message I typed up in less than a minue. 

The point was that there are easy ways to make them lore-friendly, so the lore issues aren't particularly daunting. And while I don't understand people being against Protheans in MP (just like I didn't really see the issue with the Volus), I certainly respect that some people want Javik to be the only Prothean left in the ME universe; I just don't really put multiplayer and single player in the same boat. If I did, I'd be a little annoyed that Shepard has a bunch of generic powers, while the N7 humans are all very unique and powerful. Having already completed the game a few times, I also don't really feel like my playing MP has an effect on the single player world (my Reaper war ended in SP already). Like I said, I get where the naysayers are coming from, I just don't agree.

[Saans Shadow]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Saans Shadow wrote...

I would actually like a more soldier oriented adept,

ahem, Krogan Shaman, anyone?

I honestly don't like playing as Krogan.  I know some people will freak at that but they are just not my cup of tea.  I like having them on teams if played properly, especially if they don't rambo on objective waves.

[Dark Tlaloc]

Saans Shadow wrote...

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Saans Shadow wrote...

I would actually like a more soldier oriented adept,

ahem, Krogan Shaman, anyone?

I honestly don't like playing as Krogan.  I know some people will freak at that but they are just not my cup of tea.  I like having them on teams if played properly, especially if they don't rambo on objective waves.

I like playing as the Vanguard because I can replenish my shields, but i definitely prefer more manueverable classes in general; one of the main reasons I won't play a non-jetpack Turian as well.

[Giantdeathrobot]

SAY WHAT NOW??

the return of the collectors in no way changes anything about ME2.

Where do some of you folks get this stuff??!!! out the rear end thats where!!

First, the overruse of exclamation points and capslock does not make your point more relevant.

Second, the point of ME2, the suicide mission et all, was to destroy the Collectors. There still are Collectors around. So, mission failed. At this point, it's little more than Commander Shepard's summer vacation in the Terminus systems in preparation for the real war (ME3). Only thing that really matter lore-wise are your decision in Mordin, Tali and Legion's personnal quests. Hell ME2's DLCs have far more story and lore relevance than the main game's main quest, especially Arrival.

[ryanshowseason3]

I'll preface with this. I despise the thought of protheans in MP. Having a hundreds of thousands of 4 man prothean teams in multiplayer would seem like half the race survived.

But I am also a man dedicated to seeing logic and making a good argument for either side.

OP has a good argument that I've thought of as well. Protheans would just be a 3d model that could literally be anything. There is no good reason to make it a prothean. If you want a true biotic soldier then why not just make one out of the already available models?

So what is there to them that no one else can do? We only have a sample size of 1 to determine what they could do uniquely, which isn't good we don't know how javik stacked against other soldiers of his time.

There is one thing a prothean character could do though above other races: Their bio memory ability. Javik learns languages and knowledge through touch. He can sense the previous presence of biological creatures by touching things they have touched. These could be incorporated into powers. For instance...

An ability could be for the prothean character to use the dodging mechanics of his teamates so you could "touch" them by getting close and using the power to then adopt their roll/biotic slide/ teleport dodge.

Another ability might be to sense the previous presence of biological creatures by seeing ghost images of them moments prior so you can see where they went, and follow them to their current destination.

Perhaps a final ability could be to adopt a character's non racial power as your own for a limited time say an entire round. Perhaps even learn an "ability" of an enemy unit by touching it.

So yah there is something that only protheans could bring to the table. Even though I don't like the idea of them AT ALL.

[Ravenmyste]

Wawos wrote...

Nay to Protheans.

i have to agree nay to them as well

[Deucetipher]

Rokayt wrote...

How would playing a Prothean enhance your gameplay experience? If the class was made to play differently, it wouldn't really matter because bioware could have made a litterally identical character, and this radically new gameplay style would be totally independent from the fact tat you are playing a Prothean.

Ultimately, the only reason why we would have a Prothean is the lore surronding them. There is nothing about this prospective class that makes it any more fun then the exact same class, but human/asari/salarian instead.
However, adding Protheans to the character list totally ruins the point of having Protheans as a characters in the first place:
The coolness, rareness, and mysteriousness of the Protheans. The Lore that is quite frankly, the only reason that playing a Prothean would be a novelty.

Clones: You arn't really playing a Prothean, you are playing a Salarian experiment/Cerberus experiment/Okeer experiment/Reaper experiment who is genetically a Prothean by chance.
A cache of warriors discovered on planet X: Do you really want a Razor gaming accessory exclusive character class?


However, I will revoke this if you can name one way a Prothean could truely enhance gameplay in a way that only a Prothean could (In ways other then simply being a Prothean, which from current lore is cool.)
I ain't talking about the way they talk.
Noooo. I mean something that is fun, that only a Prothean can do.

Let me preface by saying that I am pro inclusion of protheans

OP, I think you actually set up a very interesting question: Since any actual appeal of Protheans comes from their lore and not their theoretical gameplay, advocates for Protheans are in their own way lorehounds.  

However, your premise includes an assumption that needs to be addressed.  You posit that if Protheans came from a cache, they would be tied to Razor products.  AFAIK, there isn't any evidence to support this assertion.  From a lore POV, this would be the best way to include protheans.  It keeps their theoretical flavor while making them playable

Furthermore, you keep repeating the 1/50k figure.  I feel as this is misleading, because as Javik was being sealed in, the explanation was that damage from the battle would cause there to be insufficient energy.  On Ilos, the energy supply had to support a fancy VI.  If the protheans made multiple caches, which seems likely, only one cache making it through relatively unharmed would provide sufficient Protheans for MP.

[VaultingFrog]

Deucetipher wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

How would playing a Prothean enhance your gameplay experience? If the class was made to play differently, it wouldn't really matter because bioware could have made a litterally identical character, and this radically new gameplay style would be totally independent from the fact tat you are playing a Prothean.

Ultimately, the only reason why we would have a Prothean is the lore surronding them. There is nothing about this prospective class that makes it any more fun then the exact same class, but human/asari/salarian instead.
However, adding Protheans to the character list totally ruins the point of having Protheans as a characters in the first place:
The coolness, rareness, and mysteriousness of the Protheans. The Lore that is quite frankly, the only reason that playing a Prothean would be a novelty.

Clones: You arn't really playing a Prothean, you are playing a Salarian experiment/Cerberus experiment/Okeer experiment/Reaper experiment who is genetically a Prothean by chance.
A cache of warriors discovered on planet X: Do you really want a Razor gaming accessory exclusive character class?


However, I will revoke this if you can name one way a Prothean could truely enhance gameplay in a way that only a Prothean could (In ways other then simply being a Prothean, which from current lore is cool.)
I ain't talking about the way they talk.
Noooo. I mean something that is fun, that only a Prothean can do.

Let me preface by saying that I am pro inclusion of protheans

OP, I think you actually set up a very interesting question: Since any actual appeal of Protheans comes from their lore and not their theoretical gameplay, advocates for Protheans are in their own way lorehounds.  

However, your premise includes an assumption that needs to be addressed.  You posit that if Protheans came from a cache, they would be tied to Razor products.  AFAIK, there isn't any evidence to support this assertion.  From a lore POV, this would be the best way to include protheans.  It keeps their theoretical flavor while making them playable

Furthermore, you keep repeating the 1/50k figure.  I feel as this is misleading, because as Javik was being sealed in, the explanation was that damage from the battle would cause there to be insufficient energy.  On Ilos, the energy supply had to support a fancy VI.  If the protheans made multiple caches, which seems likely, only one cache making it through relatively unharmed would provide sufficient Protheans for MP.

Here is the real issue with the Prothians surviving into current times. None of the stasis pods were equiped with power sources to survive for 50,000 years. Javik survived because an AI diverted power from all systems to his individual pod due to protocals.

They were designed to awaken within a few hundred years, perhaps a thousand. Not 50,000. Even if there are other sites, which there probably are, odds are either they were destroyed by the Reapers before awakening, during the stasis process (IE planetary assault) or are so buried that the current races wouldnt have time to find them. More to the point because they were designed to open up within a few hundred if not a thousand years the Prothians themselves wouldnt be around in this time anyways. They would have woken up tens of thousands of years prior, so why didnt they move back out into the stars? They had the know how to do so. So why not?

Personally I think most ended up like Ilos. Nobody knew how long the Reapers would take and 300+ years is a long time. Most if not all probably ran low on power and had to shut off pods and kill the occupants before the Reapers left for Dark Space. Then after awakening they probably would have found an unviable amount of Prothians left alive to keep their species going. Being cut off from each other during the war they would have no way of knowing if anybody else survived. At that point they probably would have been dead within a few generations due to lack of genetic material.

Javik was a fluke survivor nothing more. While the possibility that more survivors exist it is about as far from probable as I could possibly get.

[NM_Che56]

The devs can give powers and characteristics to any type of kit they desire. There's nothing that's in the way cosmically stopping them from creating some kick ass Prothean powers that would just drop even the most jaded of jaws. There's nothing in the lore that would make anyone reasonably say, "hey, they can't do that". They are a veritable blank slate of development creativity. So I don't see the point of this thread unless you are aware of some limitations that I am not.

Personally, I would love to see the green wall smash from the Javik cut scene.

[VaultingFrog]

Master Che wrote...

The devs can give powers and characteristics to any type of kit they desire. There's nothing that's in the way cosmically stopping them from creating some kick ass Prothean powers that would just drop even the most jaded of jaws. There's nothing in the lore that would make anyone reasonably say, "hey, they can't do that". They are a veritable blank slate of development creativity. So I don't see the point of this thread unless you are aware of some limitations that I am not.

Personally, I would love to see the green wall smash from the Javik cut scene.

VaultingFrog wrote...

Here is the real issue with the Prothians surviving into current times. None of the stasis pods were equiped with power sources to survive for 50,000 years. Javik survived because an AI diverted power from all systems to his individual pod due to protocals.

They were designed to awaken within a few hundred years, perhaps a thousand. Not 50,000. Even if there are other sites, which there probably are, odds are either they were destroyed by the Reapers before awakening, during the stasis process (IE planetary assault) or are so buried that the current races wouldnt have time to find them. More to the point because they were designed to open up within a few hundred if not a thousand years the Prothians themselves wouldnt be around in this time anyways. They would have woken up tens of thousands of years prior, so why didnt they move back out into the stars? They had the know how to do so. So why not?

Personally I think most ended up like Ilos. Nobody knew how long the Reapers would take and 300+ years is a long time. Most if not all probably ran low on power and had to shut off pods and kill the occupants before the Reapers left for Dark Space. Then after awakening they probably would have found an unviable amount of Prothians left alive to keep their species going. Being cut off from each other during the war they would have no way of knowing if anybody else survived. At that point they probably would have been dead within a few generations due to lack of genetic material.

Javik was a fluke survivor nothing more. While the possibility that more survivors exist it is about as far from probable as I could possibly get.

So yes there is plenty in lore that excludes them. That aside I too would love to see different colored biotics out there. I would love to be able to change my AJA's reave to a pretty pink but sadly I cannot.

[Kuriiiiiii]

 If they wanted to really work to add them they could add a new map in a Salarian base where you can see Protheans being cloned.

[Deucetipher]

VaultingFrog wrote...


Here is the real issue with the Prothians surviving into current times. None of the stasis pods were equiped with power sources to survive for 50,000 years. Javik survived because an AI diverted power from all systems to his individual pod due to protocals.

They were designed to awaken within a few hundred years, perhaps a thousand. Not 50,000. Even if there are other sites, which there probably are, odds are either they were destroyed by the Reapers before awakening, during the stasis process (IE planetary assault) or are so buried that the current races wouldnt have time to find them. More to the point because they were designed to open up within a few hundred if not a thousand years the Prothians themselves wouldnt be around in this time anyways. They would have woken up tens of thousands of years prior, so why didnt they move back out into the stars? They had the know how to do so. So why not?

Personally I think most ended up like Ilos. Nobody knew how long the Reapers would take and 300+ years is a long time. Most if not all probably ran low on power and had to shut off pods and kill the occupants before the Reapers left for Dark Space. Then after awakening they probably would have found an unviable amount of Prothians left alive to keep their species going. Being cut off from each other during the war they would have no way of knowing if anybody else survived. At that point they probably would have been dead within a few generations due to lack of genetic material.

Javik was a fluke survivor nothing more. While the possibility that more survivors exist it is about as far from probable as I could possibly get.

I'm not saying it isn't problematic, but it creates at least a possibility.  I felt dismissing it as necessarily tied to Razor products was unfair. 

However, here is a hypothetical.  Protheans design a facility that taps into geothermal power to power their facility.  Due to strict controls, the indoctrinated are largely kep away from the project but manage to corrupt the wake-up protocols.  Protheans sleep till present day, found by task force looking for ways to combat reapers.

Sure, far fetched, but not any less far fetched than the eden prime facility failing in such a way that only one prothean survived for shepard and that pod was in immediate danger of failing when shepard arrived.

[Dark Tlaloc]

Master Che wrote...

The devs can give powers and characteristics to any type of kit they desire. There's nothing that's in the way cosmically stopping them from creating some kick ass Prothean powers that would just drop even the most jaded of jaws. There's nothing in the lore that would make anyone reasonably say, "hey, they can't do that". They are a veritable blank slate of development creativity. So I don't see the point of this thread unless you are aware of some limitations that I am not.

Personally, I would love to see the green wall smash from the Javik cut scene.

Or Javik's voice shouting "Pree-mah-tivs approaching!" (or something like that)

Right now I live for hearing "For TuchANKAAA" and "Big Machine!" -- I'd like some Javik-esque arrogance to add to it.

[NM_Che56]

VaultingFrog wrote...

*a bunch of stuff*

*snipped*

You seem to forget the evolution of codex.  There were no more Protheans before Javik.  There were no more Rachni, until Peak 15. We all thought Protheans were the squid mouthed things on Ilos.  Ever heard of Leviathans prior to the DLC? Nope.  But we have creatures that have been alive for over a billion years now... 

Top that off with what's in the codex regarding uncharted worlds.



Translation: There's greater than a 99% chance that there's a planet with more Protheans in stasis.

What's my point: Everything you wrote is entirely opinion, just like I have an opinion.  An opinion based on current "knowledge" and qualified by an ever evolving fictional galaxy with technological limits that exist within the developers' minds.  Considering that none of this is "fact", we both have an equal chance at being right or wrong.  So the "winner" of the Mass Effect Nerd-Off can only be decided by personal bias towards one argument or the other.

Modifié par Master Che, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:00 .

[VaultingFrog]

Deucetipher wrote...

I'm not saying it isn't problematic, but it creates at least a possibility.  I felt dismissing it as necessarily tied to Razor products was unfair. 

However, here is a hypothetical.  Protheans design a facility that taps into geothermal power to power their facility.  Due to strict controls, the indoctrinated are largely kep away from the project but manage to corrupt the wake-up protocols.  Protheans sleep till present day, found by task force looking for ways to combat reapers.

Sure, far fetched, but not any less far fetched than the eden prime facility failing in such a way that only one prothean survived for shepard and that pod was in immediate danger of failing when shepard arrived.

As I said the possibility is there as the current species are no where near as wide spread as the Prothians but the likelyhood of an event like this is so low I cant come up with a number for it. Something like 1 x 10 to the -9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999th.

And honestly there are a whole host of other issues to deal with. The Reapers probably would have pounded that planet flat and could have made it toxic to life due to atmospheric contamination or any other number of issues that could happen which could be factored in. To many variables (though most with extremely low probabilities including the original subject) to count leading into an idea which is unstable at best.

I just dont see it happening. Remember how people felt and still feel about alot of the things in ME3 where they though it was gimicy and stuff? They would be more than justified if this happend.

[NM_Che56]

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

Master Che wrote...

The devs can give powers and characteristics to any type of kit they desire. There's nothing that's in the way cosmically stopping them from creating some kick ass Prothean powers that would just drop even the most jaded of jaws. There's nothing in the lore that would make anyone reasonably say, "hey, they can't do that". They are a veritable blank slate of development creativity. So I don't see the point of this thread unless you are aware of some limitations that I am not.

Personally, I would love to see the green wall smash from the Javik cut scene.

Or Javik's voice shouting "Pree-mah-tivs approaching!" (or something like that)

Right now I live for hearing "For TuchANKAAA" and "Big Machine!" -- I'd like some Javik-esque arrogance to add to it.

Especially with revives!

"you're pathetic"

[ryanshowseason3]

Master Che wrote...

The devs can give powers and characteristics to any type of kit they desire. There's nothing that's in the way cosmically stopping them from creating some kick ass Prothean powers that would just drop even the most jaded of jaws. There's nothing in the lore that would make anyone reasonably say, "hey, they can't do that". They are a veritable blank slate of development creativity. So I don't see the point of this thread unless you are aware of some limitations that I am not.

Personally, I would love to see the green wall smash from the Javik cut scene.

OP is saying that blank slate already exists on any of the other races already. The only thing protheans add is a 3d model.

[StrawHatMoose]

Wouldn't from ashes have to be changed. And javiks appeal would be lowered. You'd get angry fans and bioware doesn't like angry fans.