43 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

Kolgrim gives you a vial of blood to pour into the ashes... And rewards you by giving you another vial of blood to drink. Well, that's a waste. Why not just, I don't know... Drink the first vial and be done with it? I mean, think of it-

"Here's a vial, destroy the ashes with it, and I'll give you another one that you'll be allowed to drink. Don't drink the first one though, that would be cheating and breaking our deal. You're not allowed to drink this one, okay?"

"Sure."

*walks 10 feet away and chugs it behind his back=reaver acquired*

"Did he really think I was so dumb to do an extra middle step just to ultimately get another vial of the same stuff he wanted dumped on the ashes? Idiot. That's like telling me to pour a cup of ale on someones head so they'll give me a cup of ale."


Or even if not that, you know that dragon blood is how you get reaver, and you just killed about 50 dragons plus a high dragon, all of which have blood leaking all over the place from their injuries. Just put your mouth to a wound of the high dragon while making like a vampire bat, and your set. Sure the party will be a bit 'eww', but oh well.


Anyway, this is how I roleplay getting reaver without spoiling the ashes. I just pretend my character skips the step of using the vial to ruin the ashes to get another vial, and just drink the first one. Or just cut a nice raw piece of dragon meat and eat it blood and all (after all, how many people can honestly say they've gotten to eat honest-to-goodness dragon meat?). I don't have to foolishly do what Kolgrim wants just to get some dragon blood when he already gave it to me before even reaching the ashes, and I just left a path of bloody dead dragons throughout the entire cave network. I'm not exactly hurting for sources of dragon blood there.

Modifié par andy69156915, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:34 .

[sylvanaerie]

*Spits coffee all over her monitor screen* This has to be one of the funniest things I've read on the boards!

And I'm sad to say I didn't think of this first...

[andy6915]

The sad part is that stupidity is the only option. The only way to acquire it the first time is to fall for Kolgrim completely, actually wasting your first vial on the ashes to be rewarded with another just like it. In an attempt to make it a hard choice (not get reaver or lose 2 party members), Bioware just made it so your character's brain along with all party member's brains shut all critical thinking off and don't even think of doing what I said to do. It's like the all got hit with a stupid stick before talking to him. Roleplaying and pretending that my character and party just drink the first vial or drink some blood off a dragon corpse is much better seeing as it doesn't look like everyone just had their IQ drop 80+ points.

[Shadow Fox]

How do we know that just drinking dragon blood is all it takes*I'm under the belief that the reaverblood comes from "Andrastate"* it might have to be magically prepared so it doesn't just kill you*ala the Joining*

[andy6915]

Reason is the codex for dragon cults. It mentions how dragons blood alters you, and says nothing of any preparation method. Drinking the blood is the only thing it says is needed to become one.

http://dragonage.wik...y:_Dragon_Cults

"Members of a dragon cult live in the same lair as a high dragon, nurturing and protecting its defenseless young. In exchange, the high dragon seem to permit those cultists to kill a small number of those young in order to feast on draconic blood. That blood is said to have a number of strange long-term effects, including bestowing greater strength and endurance, as well as an increased desire to kill. It may breed insanity as well. Nevarran dragon-hunters have said these cultists are incredibly powerful opponents. The changes in the cultists are a form of blood magic, surely, but how did the symbiotic relationship between the cult and the high dragon form in the first place? How did the cultists know to drink the dragon's blood? How did the high dragon convince them to care for its young, or know that they would?"


Nothing about any preparation, merely ingesting it is all it takes, if the codex is actually true about this. Yes, it mentions that it's probably a form of blood magic, but it doesn't say any magic is involved with becoming a reaver, the dragons blood alone alters you.

Modifié par andy69156915, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:38 .

[Jordan]

Is the player made aware that they will receive the second vial as a reward if they defile the ashes?

[andy6915]

No, they aren't made aware. Which makes it even dumber to not drink the first vial when you have the chance, seeing as you have no guarantee Kolgrim will keep his word.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

andy69156915 wrote...

Reason is the codex for dragon cults. It mentions how dragons blood alters you, and says nothing of any preparation method. Drinking the blood is the only thing it says is needed to become one.

http://dragonage.wik...y:_Dragon_Cults

"Members of a dragon cult live in the same lair as a high dragon, nurturing and protecting its defenseless young. In exchange, the high dragon seem to permit those cultists to kill a small number of those young in order to feast on draconic blood. That blood is said to have a number of strange long-term effects, including bestowing greater strength and endurance, as well as an increased desire to kill. It may breed insanity as well. Nevarran dragon-hunters have said these cultists are incredibly powerful opponents. The changes in the cultists are a form of blood magic, surely, but how did the symbiotic relationship between the cult and the high dragon form in the first place? How did the cultists know to drink the dragon's blood? How did the high dragon convince them to care for its young, or know that they would?"


Nothing about any preparation, merely ingesting it is all it takes, if the codex is actually true about this. Yes, it mentions that it's probably a form of blood magic, but it doesn't say any magic is involved with becoming a reaver, the dragons blood alone alters you.

Just because it doesn't mention a preparation ritual doesn't mean there isn't one. For one thing, he wouldn't know. For another, he wouldn't help people become Reavers even if he did know how to do it.

[andy6915]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Just because it doesn't mention a preparation ritual doesn't mean there isn't one. For one thing, he wouldn't know. For another, he wouldn't help people become Reavers even if he did know how to do it.

So you think you know more then the in-game codex? Your own thoughts trump the canon? I don't think so.

Besides, is it so hard to believe that merely drinking the blood is enough to change you? Drinking raw darkspawn blood changes one into a ghoul, which is a bigger physical change then reavers get anyway.

[andy6915]

Because we know just drinking darkspawn blood merely makes you a ghoul. We also know that merely drinking dragon blood makes you a reaver. That's why.

[andy6915]

As opposed to you, who's just a gamer who temporarily visits the fictional world of Thedus and can at best guess about stuff? Right, you're much more credible. Why read the codex when we have you to tell us the in-game lore?

[Blazomancer]

Faerunner mentioned an important point regarding the nature of codex entries in the game. While codex entries detailing game mechanics come from bioware itself, the codex entries for the lore is mostly told from the viewpoint of historians, scholars, and other prominent personalities.

Since this information comes from some indivuduals in that universe itself who have their own morality and ideology, is it really possible to know what everyone jotted down in books are completely accurate? Many codex entries are excerpts from Brother Genitivi's works; so isn't it upto the warden if s/he believes or disbelieves him.

Andy69156915 also has a point when he says that the warden should rather drink dragon blood the first chance he gets after reading that book (codex in our universe) on dragon cults to become stronger and resilient. But then, in my opinion, it depends on the type of warden one is playing. Does s/he believe in the writer, does s/he willing to take any risk to become as powerful as possible?

Well, that's how I see it, & i may be wrong. As for unlocking of reaver, I actually forgot how i did that. May be I bought it in awakening or probably defiled the ashes, unlocked reaver, then reloaded the pre-defiling save, kicked kolgrim's butt, and everyone's happy. Lol

[frostajulie]

Well the one warden that did defile the ashes was an anti andraste maker chantry mage who defiled them because of her rage and hate at the institution that had imprisoned her for her entire life and then sentenced her to grey wardening. She was utterly devestated to kill her beloved in an unforseen battle afterward. That playthru was a very rewarding RP playthru.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The playthrough I unlocked Reaver for was a massive jerk who took every evil choice I could think of, with the exception of A: Letting Redcliffe be destroyed (I didn't have the heart) and B: Giving the throne of Orzammar to the massive jerk of a kinslayer. (Because I was metagaming for the least positive outcome, and I don't think he qualifies.)

The playthrough I played Reaver with was a Reaver-Berserker with armor made via blood magic, so he basically fits the Blackguard or Dark Knight character archetype in terms of his abilities. (One is D&D, the other is FF, in terms of abilities they are similar enough to be lumped together for this purpose.) As a touch of irony, I played him as kind of a nice guy.

@frostajulie: The unlocker was also a blood mage who asked that the Circle be free of the Chantry.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 19 octobre 2012 - 02:53 .

[Jordan]

Forgive me for asking, but is the Warden always made aware that he is carrying dragon blood? Does Kolgrim simply request that you pour the contents of the vial into the ashes, without specifying what the contents are?

Also, without investigation, is the Warden told about Reavers and how to become one?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yes, it is made obvious to him that he is carrying dragon blood. The Warden may also discover that dragon cults use dragon blood to power their abilities, and will probably put two and two together as soon as Kolgrim mentions it. Just in case they don't, Alistair comes right out and mentions that this is probably what will happen. Still, Kolgrim mentions that there is some knowledge to be gained, and a PC could interpret that to mean that there is something other than the blood that is needed. In fact, the knowledge comes right from the blood, but Kolgrim doesn't seem to mention that for some reason.

Having rewatched the scene, Kolgrim doesn't seem to mention anything else, but that's not to say that the blood is all there is to it. The fact is we don't really know for sure. That probably means the PC doesn't either.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 17 octobre 2012 - 11:30 .

[TEWR]

From DAII:

A true reaver has tasted the ritually prepared blood of a dragon. It is more than a state of mind. These fearsome warriors revel in death, regaining energy from the suffering of their foes.

And as we all know, both the Warden Joining and the Reaver Joining are forms of blood magic, as they follow the same criteria: gather the blood of what you're drinking (Darkspawn/Dragon) and prepare it in a ritualistic fashion. Never mind the fact that the two are linked together in more ways then that -- i.e Darkspawn worshipping the most powerful Dragons ever to exist, and the Old Gods/powerful Darkspawn having sway over lesser Dragons.

Indeed, there's more to these things then meets the eye. They are in fact very similar.

Also, this should be mentioned:

Collecting dragon's blood is extremely difficult, even for the most accomplished dragon hunter. First, one must locate the increasingly rare creatures. Second, one must bleed it. However, I believe that at the moment of death, the blood loses something special—a certain fiery essence, perhaps. Of course, bleeding a live dragon is quite tricky.

Dragon's blood has wide variety of uses, both magical and culinary. It's an important component of rune-crafting and those like my great-grandfather enjoy a sprinkling of the powdered stuff to their food at the dinner table. 

—From Discovering Dragon's Blood: Potions, Tinctures, and Spicy Sauces, by Ferdinand Pentaghast

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 octobre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maybe if I was roleplaying a character that thought she could manifest superpowers by drinking the blood of anything and couldn't say no to a quick vial.

Just call her Grey Warden Reaver Hallaspirit BleedingHeartofWitherfang Nugmuncher.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And then she wanted to gain Templar abilities.

Poor Alistair.

[Blazomancer]

Hahaha, i want Overwhelm ability.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

And then she wanted to gain Templar abilities.

Poor Alistair.

Alistair doesn't mind getting nommed. >.>

Blazomancer wrote...

Hahaha, i want Overwhelm ability.

Well, you kill any number of mabari during the game. Doesn't have to be Dog! D:

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 20 octobre 2012 - 06:39 .

[Jordan]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

From DAII:

A true reaver has tasted the ritually prepared blood of a dragon. It is more than a state of mind. These fearsome warriors revel in death, regaining energy from the suffering of their foes.

And as we all know, both the Warden Joining and the Reaver Joining are forms of blood magic, as they follow the same criteria: gather the blood of what you're drinking (Darkspawn/Dragon) and prepare it in a ritualistic fashion. Never mind the fact that the two are linked together in more ways then that -- i.e Darkspawn worshipping the most powerful Dragons ever to exist, and the Old Gods/powerful Darkspawn having sway over lesser Dragons.

Indeed, there's more to these things then meets the eye. They are in fact very similar.

Also, this should be mentioned:

Collecting dragon's blood is extremely difficult, even for the most accomplished dragon hunter. First, one must locate the increasingly rare creatures. Second, one must bleed it. However, I believe that at the moment of death, the blood loses something special—a certain fiery essence, perhaps. Of course, bleeding a live dragon is quite tricky.

Dragon's blood has wide variety of uses, both magical and culinary. It's an important component of rune-crafting and those like my great-grandfather enjoy a sprinkling of the powdered stuff to their food at the dinner table. 

—From Discovering Dragon's Blood: Potions, Tinctures, and Spicy Sauces, by Ferdinand Pentaghast

I can just imagine poor Andy confidently downing the vial of dragon's blood as he scrolls down this page, then reading your post.