18 réponses à ce sujet

[Goph]

I've started a new BGT game with a vanilla ranger and I'm planning to use Imoen as my only other party member through the end of BG2.  I've started but never finished several ranger games, and I've never done a small party (<4) run before. So mostly I'm just looking for general tips, but I also have a couple of specific questions:

When should I dual class Imoen over to mage?

Is it worth it to keep my ranger in lower grade armor to allow him to backstab?

Any specific equipment advice would also be appreciated.  I'm jumping back in after several months off, so don't worry about insulting my intelligence . . .

EDIT: I guess this depends on when I dual class, but where should Imoen's thief points go?

Modifié par Goph, 15 octobre 2012 - 12:11 .

[Matuse]

How quickly is based on how much thief stuff you want Imoen to be doing. If all you want her for is locks and traps, then you can get both to 100 by level 6. The more you ask of her beyond that, the further along you will need to take her.

Your ranger cannot backstab unless you are a Stalker, and Stalkers are already restricted to thief-type armor (but won't be able to wear thief-exclusive armor like the one sold in beregost).

[Flamedance]

"When should I dual class Imoen over to mage?"

If you don't mind memorizing a few Knock spells, all you really need is to max her Find Traps skill. If you want her to have a high Open Locks skill too (which i find convenient), you can dual her to mage at level 7. With just the two of you, she'll have her thief levels back in no time.

Only the Ranger kit "Stalker" can backstab. Stalkers can't wear armor better than studded leather. Without item mods, the best armor you can find is White Dragonscale armor but you'll have to wait until ToB for that. Stalkers can use Shadowdragonscale armor, but you'll have to kill the Shadow Dragon in the Temple Ruins.

[Goph]

Thanks for the quick reply. Is there any advantage to advancing a thief skill past 100?

I'd think if she can defeat traps & locks that's all I'd need, but picking pockets is fun too. Where would you put her skills if you were running this game?

I thought any ranger could backstab. I've never really tried it much, obviously. If they can't backstab, what's the point in playing a ranger? The spells? Just curious here. I've always tended towards Berserking in the past . . .

[Flamedance]

"Is there any advantage to advancing a thief skill past 100?" Really only pickpocketing. Rest is from "completely pointless" (Traps and locks) to "rather pointless" (everything else)

With a party of just two, Immy will level up very fast. Find Traps first, Pickpocketing last (you can steal some very nice items in SoA).

"If they can't backstab, what's the point in playing a ranger?" Two free stars in Two Weapon fighting. And Stalkers are great fun to play.

[Goph]

I've already started and I'm playing a generic ranger, not a Stalker. I am planning to dual-wield, if that's the major advantage. It does seem a small advantage since any fighter kit would get the extra pips eventually . . .

I read you on thief skills, but I ask again what YOU would put them at if you were running this game. 100/100/100, then dual class? Or just dual her at 7 and get the best I can by then?

I also want to say that I really appreciate everyone on this board. I swing past here about once every six months or so when I get a chance to start a new game, and I always feel like I'm asking questions I used to know the answers to. So I certainly appreciate everyone's patience and input. Thank you.

[Flamedance]

I always dual Imoen at level 7, after maxing Find Traps and Open locks. That means i can get through the Baldur's Gate I part of the game without any hassle.

I never bother with the other skills, mainly because my game is heavily modded and i can recruit one hell of a thief (much, much, much better than either Jan or Yoshimo) in Irenicus' dungeon.

With a pickpocketing skill of 125% you can nick pretty much anything in the game without being forced to reload 50 times. If you don't mind reloading you can probably get by with 75% for most things.

Again: the only thing you really NEED is Find Traps and you should have that maxed (or very nearly so) by the time you enter Durlag's Tower.

100/100/100 enables you to spot and remove all traps, open any lock and successfully pickpocket 90% of the NPC's in the game.

[Jianson]

If it's only the two of you, I would wait with dualling Imoen until at least level 9, for better HP, thieving (you can get everything to useful levels (at least with potion help), including trap setting) and backstab multiplier. Of course, that leaves you quite some time without a thief, so I'd suggest a replacement thief, at least for trap-heavy areas.

A Ranger is of course not as good a warrior as a pure Fighter because of the limit of ** in weapon proficiencies, but they have a couple of minor perks:

- can use stealth (if wearing light armor)
- has a racial enemy (+4 to hit and damage against this enemy type)
- Charm Animal (1 every odd-numbered level)
- Can use priest scrolls (if INT is at least 9)
- Gets Druid spells at level 8 and up. Reaches only 3rd-level spells, though, and gets no bonus spells from high WIS

They are also a great starting point for dual-classing to Cleric. That character plays like a Cleric with slighly better fighting ability and access to all the priest spells.

Modifié par Jianson, 15 octobre 2012 - 02:58 .

[Gate70]

Attacking from the shadows (I think) reduces the THACO by 4, but for your planned approach a stalker sounds like a much better option, so a pity you're already underway.

In BG1 I'd say plain studded leather armour plus a ring of protection +1 then +2 is best. Boots of Stealth from the green-tunic hobgoblin south of Beregost (slightly south of a rocky outcrop to the west of the central path). I never bother with heavy armour for rangers as the Boots of Speed from Drasus plus hide in shadows is usually effective. The greenstone amulet is also highly useful against casters who can cast hold person, charm or confusion.

There are some good armour options in SoA/ToB, Without the fixpack and with certain stats you can use Valygar's armour, or Aegers Hide has some nice benefits. Flamedance is correct about the Shadow Dragon and White Scale armour being good options so plenty of choice. Alternately an offhand Flail of Easthaven (with Joluv the bonus merchant) could be an option to reduce damage taken.

Other BG2 items I found useful with a stalker were the ring of Spell Turning and similar spell from the Book of Infinite Spells. Ilbratha for mirror image.

[Matuse]

With a pickpocketing skill of 125% you can nick pretty much anything in the game without being forced to reload 50 times. If you don't mind reloading you can probably get by with 75% for most things.

My experience is that you don't get a really notable success rate until about 150. 100 would be fine for commoners and such, but when you try to pickpocket leveled targets, it needs to be higher. If you want to be stealing off targets with rogue levels (shadow thief guildhouse, brennan risling), then you need 200+.

Hide/Sneak benefit substantially from being over 100. With 150, you stop even needing shadows in order to hide. Do it in broad daylight in the middle of the street.

Imoen needs 7 levels in vanilla BG to hit 100 in locks and traps. With TuTu/Trilogy, she only needs level 6.

[Goph]

Thanks again for all replies. I'm leaning towards dualing her early rather than getting the pickpocketing and other skills up. One more question. Everyone seems to being saying to max find traps first. I get that finding/disarming traps is a thief's first responsibility, but I'm usually a fair bit into the game before I start encountering a lot of traps. I think the Firewine Ruins are the fist place where I really need my thief for that purpose. So I always max locks first, because I can use that all along and don't have to revisit areas just to pick chests. This is a mistake?

[Jianson]

One more question. Everyone seems to being saying to max find traps first. I get that finding/disarming traps is a thief's first responsibility, but I'm usually a fair bit into the game before I start encountering a lot of traps. I think the Firewine Ruins are the fist place where I really need my thief for that purpose. So I always max locks first, because I can use that all along and don't have to revisit areas just to pick chests. This is a mistake?

I'm with you there, trap detection isn't needed until later.

For her first three level-ups, I focus heavily on stealth and get Open Locks to 50-55%. For example, that's high enough for every lock in Beregost except one.

I tend to use Master Thievery potions for areas with several tough locks.

[Matuse]

It's true that you don't really need trapfinding until later, but most traps also have fairly high requirements. You need to build it up early so that when the traps do arrive, you actually have a shot at beating them.

Having 45 in your trapskill is basically the same thing as having 0.

Modifié par Matuse, 18 octobre 2012 - 11:25 .

[Grimwald the Wise]

For heavily trapped areas such as Durlag's Tower I use potions of perception, master thievery etc. plus oil of speed. I then deal with all the traps, running away from enemies before the potions wear off. The oil of speed really does cut down on the number of other potions that you need.

One potion of each should be enough to deal with all the upper areas.

[Goph]

Quick question: When someone says "dual her at x level" that means get her to level x then dual her over to mage, right? Not dual her over to mage with the xp she'd get for x level?

I ask because I was thinking of dualing her earlier, after she got to thief level 5, and just using buffs for the areas where she needs to detect traps, since they are so rare . . .

[Grond0]

Yes - so you would describe your plan as being to dual from thief to mage at 5th level.

[Goph]

Okay, thanks. I just wanted to make sure I understood the terminology. The reason I was thinking of doing it a little earlier is because I lose her so early in BG2, I wanted to have a lot of time with her as a dual-classed character in BG1 . . .

[Matuse]

Going solo, you can head off to Spellhold extremely quickly in BG2. Selling all the stuff you (and Imoen) can't/won't use means that paying off Gaelen/Bodhi takes almost no time at all.

[Goph]

A 'speed run' isn't really my goal this time, but it is something I've thought about and haven't seen a lot of threads on. Is there an active thread for people trying to make it through the game in a minimum of days or with minimum xp?

Right now, I'm more interested in getting through with max xp, still exploring the different classes, and I haven't even soloed yet. If I do get soloing down, the next step would seem to be the no reload challenge, but once I succeed at that one time I think the next natural path would be to get through the game using as little time or gaining as little xp as possible.

EDIT: Neither here nor there, but I decided to dual class at sixth level. Imoen made it to fifth level before I even entered the mines, and that was with a minimum of side questing. So I think it's safe to wait for sixth level and 80 points in find traps before I make the switch . . .

Modifié par Goph, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:10 .