145 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

I would support this, it would be nice to hear from a Tevinter perspective for once. I am sure all the bad things you hear about Tevinter have some truth to them but there are two sides to everything.

[BouncyFrag]

Bioware has done a good job with building a sense of mystery and unknown in regards to the Tevinter Imperium. This must happen and their armor/robes need to be epic. As one who wasn't a big fan of Fenris, having both of them in the party would be really cool. The potential there would be off the charts.

[GodWood]

ImperatorMortis wrote...
Ugh. You're one of those people...

There is nothing inherently wrong with anything? Theres nothing inherently wrong with rape? Nothing inherently wrong with genocide? God I hate this line of thinking. Its nothing but cop outs, and excuses.

This philosophy is just a way for people to deny responsibility for the things they do.

Feel free to show that morality is objective.

Can you think of any examples of actions the PC can take that are 'inherently' evil?

Plaintiff wrote...
And as I've already said, Quentin was mentally ill, and not truly in control of his own actions.

How is he not in control his actions but you are?

This seems to be some strange logic where "people with mental handicaps don't have free will, but I do!".

[Vicious]

What made Ander's evil? The one "bad" thing he did was blow up the chantry, however his intentions weren't bad and I certainly wouldn't consider him evil because of it.

Anyone who thinks/says Anders was evil needs to jump off the friendship lap and rivalry him in Dragon Age 2.

Rival Anders and you realize that friendship just enables Justice to take over his mind. Rivalry, on the other hand, challenges Justice's single minded opinions to the point where Anders admits he is less and less in control of himself, to the point where you almost convince Anders to talk to the grand cleric for a peaceful solution and Justice comes out and basically says "I GOT A GOOD THING GOING HERE DONT MESS THIS UP!"

The kicker is, if you rivalry him, when the Chantry blows up he sides with you to try and 'contain' the situation. He knows what Justice did was wrong and horrible, and he's willing to fight against his own people in order to make it right.

Bioware needs to stop color coding the friendship/rival so people won't think 'rival = bad' next time.

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
And as I've already said, Quentin was mentally ill, and not truly in control of his own actions.

How is he not in control his actions but you are?

This seems to be some strange logic where "people with mental handicaps don't have free will, but I do!".

A mental handicap is not the same as a mental illness, although the two sometimes overlap.

I'm not a mental health professional, so obviously my diagnosis of Quentin should be taken with a pinch of salt. You are free to judge him as sane if you wish, though I don't see how one can.

Mental illness is defined by a combination of, among other things, cognitive and perceptual anomalies. Exercising free will means you have to be aware of your surroundings, actions, and the consequences thereof in a way that the mentally ill are not.

[Plaintiff]

Vicious wrote...

The kicker is, if you rivalry him, when the Chantry blows up he sides with you to try and 'contain' the situation. He knows what Justice did was wrong and horrible, and he's willing to fight against his own people in order to make it right.

Speaking as an Anders fan, that's not really a fantastic defense.

The mages have nothing to do with the attack on the Chantry. It was orchestrated by Anders and Anders alone. Slaughtering the mages isn't "containing" the situation because they had nothing to do with it. Meredith is the aggressor in this situation. She is the one that needs to be contained, if anyone does.
 
Participating in her crazy annulment only makes Anders a massive hypocrite and a traitor not only to his own people, but to his own beliefs.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:54 .

[GodWood]

Plaintiff wrote...
Mental illness is defined by a combination of, among other things, cognitive and perceptual anomalies. Exercising free will means you have to be aware of your surroundings, actions, and the consequences thereof in a way that the mentally ill are not.

A psychopath or a schizoid (in general) will be aware of their surroundings, actions, etc. Do they have free will?

And again, how is it that you do?

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Mental illness is defined by a combination of, among other things, cognitive and perceptual anomalies. Exercising free will means you have to be aware of your surroundings, actions, and the consequences thereof in a way that the mentally ill are not.

A psychopath or a schizoid (in general) will be aware of their surroundings, actions, etc. Do they have free will?

And again, how is it that you do?

Psychopathy and Schizoid Personality Disorder are personality disorders, which are not the same thing as mental disorders. They would not qualify for an insanity defense under our current laws, I'm fairly sure. 

The nature of free will itself is a whole other argument, and not one that I'm really prepared to have. At least not in this thread.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 16 octobre 2012 - 07:01 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Vicious wrote...
Anyone who thinks/says Anders was evil needs to jump off the friendship lap and rivalry him in Dragon Age 2.

Even on the friendship path he's aware to some extent that he's responsible for a lot of death and destruction, and that Justice is wrecking his mind.  It comes out most clearly in Act 2.

That being said, I'm currently doing a rivalry PT with Anders.  Christ, is it ever depressing, so much more so than rivalled Merrill.  But I do think he's a better person if Hawke calls him out on all his bull.

[Liyros]

He should twirl his mustache for humor/fan service to be ironic. Since he's not "evil", just a bit quirky is all.

[Todd23]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

My Warden.

Your Warden is from Ferelden. 

He may have been born there.  But he later became a citizen of Tevinter.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

plnero wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Uh, please don't make him evil. We already have every DA game with an "evil" mages. I'd like a DA game where the mages aren't the evil companion.

Wynne wasn't an evil companion. 

DAO - Morrigan
DA Awakening- Velanna (Though she just likes to troll chantries and kill people for the lolz but she's still no angel)
DA2 - Anders

Morrigan was more cold then evil.

Velanna wasn't evil; she only killed those humans because she thought they killed her people. If you try to convince her that saving the city of Amaranthine is the right choice you persuade her by saying "Do you want the blood of more innocents on your hands?" meaning she obviously regrets it.

What made Ander's evil? The one "bad" thing he did was blow up the chantry, however his intentions weren't bad and I certainly wouldn't consider him evil because of it.

Uh, I don't consider any of them evil (hence the "evil" in quotation marks). I'm just saying there usually the least on the high moral zone and I rather have DA3 have a warrior/rogue do something more hugely morally questionable than mage after mage after mage in every game.

[ImperatorMortis]

[quote]GodWood wrote...

There is nothing inherently wrong with anything? Theres nothing inherently wrong with rape? Nothing inherently wrong with genocide? God I hate this line of thinking. Its nothing but cop outs, and excuses.

This philosophy is just a way for people to deny responsibility for the things they do.[/quote]Feel free to show that morality is objective.

Can you think of any examples of actions the PC can take that are 'inherently' evil?[/quote]

Sure, but they're mostly in DA:O since it gave more options for that stuff. '

Killing Conner when it was obvious there was a better solution. 

Sleeping with that Dalish Elf then telling the girl who liked him about it. 

Just off the top of my head. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
 I rather have DA3 have a warrior/rogue do something more hugely morally questionable than mage after mage after mage in every game.

How about Meredith? 

But I do agree with the sentiment.  Mages aren't the only ones capable of unsavory actions, it just usually turns out more dramatically when they're the "bad guys."  Again, with the possible exception of Meredith.

[DarthLaxian]

well...i would want both - meaning:

i would want an active magister (maybe the tevinter-ambassador to the country our game plays in?...or the foreign secretary of the empire (that wants to convince our PC to help his ailing empire and mages at large...which could be counter balanced by a seeker and/or a templar trying to get us to help the templars)) and a magister (or appretice to be a magister) that has fallen from grace, because then we have all perspectives on the empire (at least the mage ones)

would i want a "softy" magister, that is just a mage that comes from tevinter and is a liberal at heart?...well, probably not.

but more, i would want a teviter ORIGIN-Story ...i want to be a magister myself, powerfull (maybe shunned because i was betrayed and trying to regain my power, livestyle and position (not that i want to own slaves mind you), wealthy and not shunned for just being born with magic!

greetings LAX

[marshalleck]

If we get a Tevinter mage/magister in the party, I don't want sanitized version of it. He shouldn't be some "progressive reformer" on a personal crusade to restructure Tevinter society based on real modern world values and make the player feel good about themselves. He should be candid and absolutely unapologetic about Tevinter culture. While it is not as dominant as it once was, the Tevinter Imperium is one of the oldest civilizations on Thedas, and you don't achieve that kind of long term stability without a solid foundation. Their ways may not be pretty, but they work. And they're one of the few nations on Thedas holding a Qunari invasion at bay--mostly on their own.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 octobre 2012 - 01:51 .

[agonis]

Plaintiff wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
And as I've already said, Quentin was mentally ill, and not truly in control of his own actions.

How is he not in control his actions but you are?

This seems to be some strange logic where "people with mental handicaps don't have free will, but I do!".

A mental handicap is not the same as a mental illness, although the two sometimes overlap.

I'm not a mental health professional, so obviously my diagnosis of Quentin should be taken with a pinch of salt. You are free to judge him as sane if you wish, though I don't see how one can.

Mental illness is defined by a combination of, among other things, cognitive and perceptual anomalies. Exercising free will means you have to be aware of your surroundings, actions, and the consequences thereof in a way that the mentally ill are not.

Reading this I come to the conclusion that Plaintiff would make an excellent Tevinter companion. I think I would enjoy similar discussions between the Inquistor (in case we will play one) and an companion very much.

[Terrorize69]

An open supporter of the Tevinter is most unlikely, why would a Tevinter agent work FOR the White Divine and a Chantry that isn't their own? The Tevinter refuse to acknowledge the Andrastian Chantry.

Unless ofcourse it turns out one companion is a Tevinter spy in disguise later in the game, then that is likely, what better way to monitor the fall of your enemies.

[LobselVith8]

Face of Evil wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Despite the common view of Tevinter as a bastion for evil, Fenris mentioned there was a Magister who tried to abolish slavery.

And he was quickly assassinated, because the Imperium's economy would collapse without slavery.

He was assassinated, but I think the Imperium can survive without slavery.

Face of Evil wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's the only society where elves can climb the social ladder. 

Oh? How so? As far as I can tell, the only options open to the elves in Tevinter is to a) live in poverty, or sell themselves into slavery. 

Climbing the social ladder is limited to elven mages (as we see with Fenris' sister Varania), but this is impossible for any elves in Andrastian society.

[Medhia Nox]

I'll support this if I can turn a Tevinter Mage into my slave.

"Hey - you know - this IS fun!"

[septembervirgin]

I was actually hoping for a Fex mage. You know, someone I could actually talk to for a change.

[Xilizhra]

while Muslim women saying western people naked at the beach are not human, because human wear cloth...

Wait, what? I... assume you're not trying to foster bigotry against Muslims, are you?