58 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

- Leviathans can indoctrinate organic minds.

- Keepers are organic.

Now, before you say. But Leviathans didn't have orbs to get onto Citadel!1!1

They had 50,000 years in between cycles to use these orbs to indoctrinate other organics into taking the orbs to the Citadel. Since, you know, the Reapers would be back in dark space and the Citadel would be sitting there for the taking.

Discuss.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 16 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How is this a plothole?

[Jvolikas]

Because space magic.

[Ticonderoga117]

Or just "Why didn't they indoctrinate their thralls to not make AI's?".

But nope, gotta make another AI to fight AI's I guess.

[AresKeith]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

How is this a plothole?

I think she means if the Leviathans wanted to stop the Reapers also, why didn't they take control of the Citadel with the Keeps all those cycles

[silentassassin264]

Because stopping the Keepers wouldn't stop the Reapers. The Vanguard would still turn the Citadel back on and failing that, Harbinger would come to town to see what was up. The Leviathans did not have the numbers to fight the Reapers straight up and still don't have the numbers. The last thing they would want was to draw attention to their existence when they couldn't put up a decent fight.

[Wayning_Star]

Maybe the keepers are only attachable from/by the catalyst, heck they might even BE the catalyst for all we know. The Levi's are probably paranoid about messing with any species directly associated with the intelligence. It might give them away. Apparently the Cat didn't know until lately of the Leviathan survival, we don't even know of the catalyst or the the levithan race until lately. Another thing is that the keepers seem simplistic, that is their duties are basically written. They only do stuff around the citadel and the relays. It wouldn't be much of an advantage to indoctrinated them, even if it were possible. I would think the Cat would just shut them off if they became a direct threat to it.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Not a plothole, try better next time

[Wayning_Star]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Or just "Why didn't they indoctrinate their thralls to not make AI's?".

But nope, gotta make another AI to fight AI's I guess.

Probably because Ai's are necessary for survival in the MEU. Thralls must run around and they need Ai's to do it.

[Wayning_Star]

Like other posters on different threads, why does Shep scan those keepers for no apparent reason, or revealed in the story? All I heard about it was one reference to it in a conversation in the game, that really didn't amount to anything...

[Forst1999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Or just "Why didn't they indoctrinate their thralls to not make AI's?".

But nope, gotta make another AI to fight AI's I guess.

ME1 told us that the more control you have over a subject, the less use it has. If the Leviathans permanently controlled every single thrall, they probably would have been useless as subjects.
As for the actual topic: The Reapers do leave behind a Vanguard. It stands to reason that either it or the Catalyst itself would have noticed a Leviathan coming to the Citadel (a giant squid flying to the Citadel gets more attention than some Prothean scientist using a secret backdoor). If the Vanguard wouldn't be foolish enough to fly right into some artifacts, it could just shoot any Leviathan that plays around. 
Especially as what you suggest would need the Leviathan to stay there, as their control isn't permanent.

[Forst1999]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Because stopping the Keepers wouldn't stop the Reapers. The Vanguard would still turn the Citadel back on and failing that, Harbinger would come to town to see what was up. The Leviathans did not have the numbers to fight the Reapers straight up and still don't have the numbers. The last thing they would want was to draw attention to their existence when they couldn't put up a decent fight.

Agreed. As we know, altering the Keepers just delays things. So the Leviathans would buy the galaxy some time by drawing attention to themselves. Doesn't sound like somehting they'd do.

[Mcfly616]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Like other posters on different threads, why does Shep scan those keepers for no apparent reason, or revealed in the story? All I heard about it was one reference to it in a conversation in the game, that really didn't amount to anything...

its nothing more than a side-quest. That Salarian already sends you the conclusions of his tests during ME2. A conclusion which Shepard already knew. Why would it amount to anything more than what it was?

Modifié par Mcfly616, 15 octobre 2012 - 11:10 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Forst1999 wrote...
ME1 told us that the more control you have over a subject, the less use it has. If the Leviathans permanently controlled every single thrall, they probably would have been useless as subjects.

But you don't need to do that. Just control the few who are developing it, and command them to stop. Done. They did something similiar to erase all knowledge and reference of themselves later, so there's no difference.

[Saint Op]

For the why didnt they just keep organics from making AIs ....I'd say that evidence points to them only being able to take over one organic at a time...

[Mcfly616]

Plothole?


Just another example of how people use that word in a completely wrong context....way too much lol

[Wayning_Star]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Like other posters on different threads, why does Shep scan those keepers for no apparent reason, or revealed in the story? All I heard about it was one reference to it in a conversation in the game, that really didn't amount to anything...

its nothing more than a side-quest. That Salarian already sends you the conclusions of his tests during ME2. A conclusion which Shepard already knew. Why would it amount to anything more than what it was?

More that what it was? What was the conclusion? Most I got was some sort of communication system thing, poorly explained. I was hoping someone else did better and found out for sure, maybe the actual purpose of the keepers besides being butlers.

[Quibii]

Jvolikas wrote...

Because space magic.

[MegaSovereign]

The Leviathans don't want to give themselves away...This is sort of explained in the narrative.

The Protheans who sabotaged the Keepers pretty much knew that it was a one way trip anyway, so it's not like they gave a sh*t if they got caught by the Reapers shortly after.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Plothole?


Just another example of how people use that word in a completely wrong context....way too much lol

\\yeah, I'm almost certain only a handful of people know what it means.

[Fedi.St]

Jade8aby88 wrote...


- Leviathans can indoctrinate organic minds.

- Keepers are organic.

Now, before you say. But Leviathans didn't have orbs to get onto Citadel!1!1

They had 50,000 years in between cycles to use these orbs to indoctrinate other organics into taking the orbs to the Citadel. Since, you know, the Reapers would be back in dark space and the Citadel would be sitting there for the taking.

Discuss.

organic which respond to digital signs and are bioengineered to self destruct if something goes wrong. and we don't know that there is not any kind of contigency plan for leviathans from the reapers part. 

[Mcfly616]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Like other posters on different threads, why does Shep scan those keepers for no apparent reason, or revealed in the story? All I heard about it was one reference to it in a conversation in the game, that really didn't amount to anything...

its nothing more than a side-quest. That Salarian already sends you the conclusions of his tests during ME2. A conclusion which Shepard already knew. Why would it amount to anything more than what it was?

More that what it was? What was the conclusion? Most I got was some sort of communication system thing, poorly explained. I was hoping someone else did better and found out for sure, maybe the actual purpose of the keepers besides being butlers.

he sends you a message that the Keepers were genetically engineered for some purpose and that they respond to "some signal every 50,000" years." All things Shepard already figured out lol they're up in the Citadel processing human remains to be processed into a Reaper at the end of ME3.


I'm pretty sure we know everything relevant there is to know about them. I don't see why we need to know their origins and how long ago they were turned into Reaper thralls.....just as we don't need to know how many millions of years ago the crucible was made. We know everything relevant to its purpose. Just as we wouldn't know those that first created the Crucible blueprints, we would not know who the Keepers were before they became "Keepers". They were a subserviant race millions of years ago.

[Kabooooom]

This is not a plothole, just like the other thread that is about plotholes which aren't plotholes.

But, it is an interesting question at least. My answer would be that doing so would reveal the Leviathan's presence to the Reapers. They appeared content to stay in the shadows, studying the cycles from the safety of their orbs.

[thearbiter1337]

If the leviathans even touched a Keeper the Catalyst would have hunted them down.

[Kabooooom]

thearbiter1337 wrote...

If the leviathans even touched a Keeper the Catalyst would have hunted them down.

I agree. They only get involved with the war after Shep convinces them by pointing out the numerous areas that the cycle was different from previous ones. They had a small population, comparatively weak to the Reapers. Exposing themselves like that would be complete suicide.