16 réponses à ce sujet

[scootermcgaffin]

 I really liked the unique Companion Skill Trees in DA2, and hope they make a return in DA3. But! I hope they're more like Varric and Aveline's and less like...almost everyone else's, really. Actually unique skill trees and not just a mish-mash of two of the MC's specialization trees shoved together. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Agree, Disagree, Scrap them alltogether? 

Modifié par scootermcgaffin, 16 octobre 2012 - 12:54 .

[Foolsfolly]

Agreed.

[sharkboy421]

Agree.  I thought it was a cool idea.  Also the Friendship/Rivalry passive bonus was an interesting twist.  And Aveline's passive was really good, just too bad I never used her ><.

[scootermcgaffin]

To add a thought I just had to the discussion: I guess the biggest complaint, and one I heard regarding Aveline and Varric, is that there's "no point" to making Hawke a Sword and Board Warrior or an Archer Rogue because Aveline and Varric will always be the best at those roles, whereas Isabela was just a dual dagger Rogue with Duelist, Fenris was just a 2H Warrior with Reaver and Templar, etc, so they didn't "overshadow" Hawke.

Personally, I think that's a ridiculous complaint. Sure, Varric is always going to be a better Archer Rogue than Hawke, but I almost always make Hawke an Archer Rogue anyway because I just think it's plain ol' fun. I don't think the MC needs to be the absolute best at everything.

[Foolsfolly]

I don't think Varric's a better archer than Hawke by sheer virtue that Varric doesn't get the Shadow and Assassin spec. Archer Hawke's a beast.

[scootermcgaffin]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't think Varric's a better archer than Hawke by sheer virtue that Varric doesn't get the Shadow and Assassin spec. Archer Hawke's a beast.

I tend to think he's slightly better ever since they patched it so a properly built Rogue Hawke can't one shot anything that looks at him funny. Before that, yeah, Archer Hawke blew him out of the water. Afterwards, it's a lot closer, IMO.

[Foolsfolly]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't think Varric's a better archer than Hawke by sheer virtue that Varric doesn't get the Shadow and Assassin spec. Archer Hawke's a beast.

I tend to think he's slightly better ever since they patched it so a properly built Rogue Hawke can't one shot anything that looks at him funny. Before that, yeah, Archer Hawke blew him out of the water. Afterwards, it's a lot closer, IMO.

They patched that out? I haven't played an Archer Hawke since before they fixed the Isabela and Sebastian passive bugs.

...

...well, ok. When I played Archer Hawke I was the best archer in Thedas.

[sharkboy421]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

To add a thought I just had to the discussion: I guess the biggest complaint, and one I heard regarding Aveline and Varric, is that there's "no point" to making Hawke a Sword and Board Warrior or an Archer Rogue because Aveline and Varric will always be the best at those roles, whereas Isabela was just a dual dagger Rogue with Duelist, Fenris was just a 2H Warrior with Reaver and Templar, etc, so they didn't "overshadow" Hawke.

Personally, I think that's a ridiculous complaint. Sure, Varric is always going to be a better Archer Rogue than Hawke, but I almost always make Hawke an Archer Rogue anyway because I just think it's plain ol' fun. I don't think the MC needs to be the absolute best at everything.

I suppose there is an arugement to be made about Varric.  His single target dps is insanely high.  However, I disagree about Aveline.  Yes, she will almost always be a better tank than Hawke, but with how DA2 ended up playing, SnS can be an incredible offensive juggernaut.  Arelex has a guide on here "Berserker Vanguard", it works for either SnS or 2h but it shows how powerful of an offensive force warrior Hawke is.

But I agree with your comment: spec Hawke how you want to because you enjoy it.

[hexaligned]

I agree in the sense that I liked some of the unique abilities. Lyrium Ghost, and... whatever Merrils keeper mode was called stand out.
However,
the removal of even more player choice, from what even in origins was a very restrictive (and in my eyes boring) class system? Not a fan.

[hexaligned]

sharkboy421 wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

To add a thought I just had to the discussion: I guess the biggest complaint, and one I heard regarding Aveline and Varric, is that there's "no point" to making Hawke a Sword and Board Warrior or an Archer Rogue because Aveline and Varric will always be the best at those roles, whereas Isabela was just a dual dagger Rogue with Duelist, Fenris was just a 2H Warrior with Reaver and Templar, etc, so they didn't "overshadow" Hawke.

Personally, I think that's a ridiculous complaint. Sure, Varric is always going to be a better Archer Rogue than Hawke, but I almost always make Hawke an Archer Rogue anyway because I just think it's plain ol' fun. I don't think the MC needs to be the absolute best at everything.

I suppose there is an arugement to be made about Varric.  His single target dps is insanely high.  However, I disagree about Aveline.  Yes, she will almost always be a better tank than Hawke, but with how DA2 ended up playing, SnS can be an incredible offensive juggernaut.  Arelex has a guide on here "Berserker Vanguard", it works for either SnS or 2h but it shows how powerful of an offensive force warrior Hawke is.

But I agree with your comment: spec Hawke how you want to because you enjoy it.

Yeah I always make my S/S hybrid dps/tanks, but I also refuse to use taunt , so it becomes somewhat necessary to kill things quickly.

[Foolsfolly]

relhart wrote...

I agree in the sense that I liked some of the unique abilities. Lyrium Ghost, and... whatever Merrils keeper mode was called stand out.
However,
the removal of even more player choice, from what even in origins was a very restrictive (and in my eyes boring) class system? Not a fan.

See I'm of two minds on this.

On the one hand I can dig being able to completely build a team that you like with skills you want. Don't like Aveline make Fenris a tank. Don't like Wynne make Morrigan your big supporter.

On the other hand I can dig each character being their own unique asset. Each bringing their talents to the team. And even if you don't like Anders he's your only healer. So you gotta put up with him.

...

...I don't know. One's video game-y but these are video games. The other's about these pre-defined characters you meet and adventure with which is far more in-line for narrative purposes.

I don't think I have a preference here. And that's as a person who generally disliked Anders but was stuck with him for most of the game because who else is going to keep the team healthy?

[scootermcgaffin]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't think I have a preference here. And that's as a person who generally disliked Anders but was stuck with him for most of the game because who else is going to keep the team healthy?

Health Potions and Elfroot Potions, since they're better than healing spells in every way?

[sharkboy421]

relhart wrote...

sharkboy421 wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

To add a thought I just had to the discussion: I guess the biggest complaint, and one I heard regarding Aveline and Varric, is that there's "no point" to making Hawke a Sword and Board Warrior or an Archer Rogue because Aveline and Varric will always be the best at those roles, whereas Isabela was just a dual dagger Rogue with Duelist, Fenris was just a 2H Warrior with Reaver and Templar, etc, so they didn't "overshadow" Hawke.

Personally, I think that's a ridiculous complaint. Sure, Varric is always going to be a better Archer Rogue than Hawke, but I almost always make Hawke an Archer Rogue anyway because I just think it's plain ol' fun. I don't think the MC needs to be the absolute best at everything.

I suppose there is an arugement to be made about Varric.  His single target dps is insanely high.  However, I disagree about Aveline.  Yes, she will almost always be a better tank than Hawke, but with how DA2 ended up playing, SnS can be an incredible offensive juggernaut.  Arelex has a guide on here "Berserker Vanguard", it works for either SnS or 2h but it shows how powerful of an offensive force warrior Hawke is.

But I agree with your comment: spec Hawke how you want to because you enjoy it.

Yeah I always make my S/S hybrid dps/tanks, but I also refuse to use taunt , so it becomes somewhat necessary to kill things quickly.

Oh yeah definitely.  I never touch taunt.  I build both SnS and 2h as pure dps.  DA2 seems to favor the idiom "the best defense is a good offense."

[Foolsfolly]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't think I have a preference here. And that's as a person who generally disliked Anders but was stuck with him for most of the game because who else is going to keep the team healthy?

Health Potions and Elfroot Potions, since they're better than healing spells in every way?

Yeah, but I'm cheap. I only ever buy Mythal's Favor or Blessing or whatever it's called. And that's primarily right before a tough as **** battle like the Sky Horror.

[Todd23]

Foolsfolly wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't think I have a preference here. And that's as a person who generally disliked Anders but was stuck with him for most of the game because who else is going to keep the team healthy?

Health Potions and Elfroot Potions, since they're better than healing spells in every way?

Yeah, but I'm cheap. I only ever buy Mythal's Favor or Blessing or whatever it's called. And that's primarily right before a tough as **** battle like the Sky Horror.

Yeah.  That thing was a juggernaut.

[rwaporter]

Personally I liked the idea of the unique skill trees for companions, even though I missed being able to give companions specialties game-play wise.

It makes sense that companions will have some skills of their own, for example it never really made sense that although Alistair had been training to be a Templar all his life, an elven street kid, or dwarven thug, or any origin could be a better Templar with only his training, similarly being a spirit healer versus Wynne (an experienced mage with a spirit backing her). It made more sense in DA2, especially where Fenris had powers related to his unique past, similarly with Merrill (lifetime of training to be a keeper and demonic tutoring), Anders (Abomination), and Varric (Bianca).

If Cassandra for example is in DA3 her tree could relate to her past as a Seeker, or as a Dragon Hunter, or a Qunari could have powers related to a lifetime of military service and immense size strength, the companions should have unique skill trees, related to their unique story, but it would be nice if you could choose a secondary specialization for game-play reasons.

[scootermcgaffin]

Foolsfolly wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't think Varric's a better archer than Hawke by sheer virtue that Varric doesn't get the Shadow and Assassin spec. Archer Hawke's a beast.

I tend to think he's slightly better ever since they patched it so a properly built Rogue Hawke can't one shot anything that looks at him funny. Before that, yeah, Archer Hawke blew him out of the water. Afterwards, it's a lot closer, IMO.

They patched that out? I haven't played an Archer Hawke since before they fixed the Isabela and Sebastian passive bugs.

...

...well, ok. When I played Archer Hawke I was the best archer in Thedas.

Yeah they patched it so the max you can do is, I believe 1/4 of a boss's health bar in one attack. No more one shotting through Mark of Death/Assassinate on a Brittle target.