27 réponses à ce sujet

[ScytheKnightAU]

.... Or is archery drasticly underpowered? I've tried two seperate archer rogues, the second one I got to lvl 12 before I gave up in disgust.

This character had lvl 2 stealth, lvl 3 lockpicking, dirty fighting, summon wolf.... the rest of her skills where spent in archery, yet even through she had NO training in TWF, or any rogue melle special attacks in an extremely tough fight (such as the Carta boss) the only hope for the party to get through was for her to abandon her bow and start backstabbing with her daggers.


Now I have no problems with this if I where playing a split speciazation... but as I was going for a master sniper I found it EXTREMELY disappointing that I had to abandon my specialization because I simply wasn't doing enough even with a T7 lowbow.

[Ygolnac]

I think Archery is very underpowered, i had leliana speced for archery with 40+ dex missing a point blank target 5 times in a row. Also the usefull talents like the one to cripple the movement of your target take that long to activate that the target have already reached you in melee...

If you want to play an archer PC in the project page of social network there are a lot of mods that make archery as powerfull as close combat weapons.

[ScytheKnightAU]

Yeah that was another thing that really bugged me about archery... all the special abilities take almost as long as a tier 4 spell cast to activate.. and if your target runs behind you while you're trying to fire even though your character keeps tracking the target it cancels the shot.

[dkjestrup]

Archery isn't underpowered. Get Arrow of Slaying and Scattershot, then try tell me it's underpowered.

[Dragon Age1103]

Do you have the PC version? What patch are you running if so?

I run Leliana as a pure Archer no weapon but a bow & she is key for support. Regular damage she doesn't do so much but all her talents are good for slowing foes, pulling enemies, stunning a crowd to get the quick health pot or heal spell off or even taunt. Also Arrow of Slaying in my opinion is one of the best abilities. You can weaken bosses or just 1 shot every mage while stealth'd. The ranger specialization is key as well since damage or health of the animal i summon means little to me just the fact i can pull enemies or aggro in a boss fight.

You two are focusing on the negative too much & most likely are not running patch 1.02 b/c archery is far from underpowered if you know how to use it correctly. For a archer all you want to do is add 2 points into dex 1 into cunning every time you level. I think 30 cunning is enough to open anything if you care to pick locks that is, and you can take strength to 20 if you want to wear good light armor.

I hope everything I mention helps b/c archery is far from underpowered, the only thing under powered in this game in my opinion is melee for a S&S or 2H warrior. Even that is just a tad.

Anyways if you specialize in Ranger & Bard while distributing points as I suggested you'll have a deadly archer in no time.

[Dragon Age1103]

Also a archer is useless if you're not using your other party members correctly. Make sure your tank is in a defense stance(shield wall) & that he uses taunt to pull aggro to him & even threaten to keep it on him no matter how much damage other party members deal. Keep your archer at max range to use pinning shot or the other shot(i forget the name) to hold approaching enemies or knock them back then send a warrior, tank what ever over to finish him off & keep them away from that archer so you can wear down enemies your main warrior or tank are not fighting but they do have them aggro'd so when they turn to fight they are half dead or more.

[Eshme]

Ygolnac: Isnt it that Bows miss at point blank anyway? That is when i switch to melee anyway for the better deal.



Arrow of Slaying isnt all that good as people say thou, and descriptions are bugged alot. But overall it seems okish. Just not good for solo, as i have tried to rescue me with Leliane

[Dragon Age1103]

Eshme wrote...

Ygolnac: Isnt it that Bows miss at point blank anyway? That is when i switch to melee anyway for the better deal.

Arrow of Slaying isnt all that good as people say thou, and descriptions are bugged alot. But overall it seems okish. Just not good for solo, as i have tried to rescue me with Leliane

Arrow of slaying is 9/10 a one shot kill for any enemy. Almost all the archer tree talents are very useful YOU just have to know how to use them correctly, you shouldn't talk down about a skill set b/c of your ignorance with that skill.

[Eshme]

Why do you jump me now?

No i heard it makes a difference with difficulty ,and its not that good higher up. 9/10 shots of it are missing if you ask me.

[Dragon Age1103]

as I said you obviously can't comment accurately since your response involved "i heard" I have used it with 2 chars if you know how to correctly level a character & have RPG experience then Arrow of Slaying is very useful. It is almost always a 1 hit kill unless an elite or boss. Point being a ability that can do 100-1000 damage is pretty useful. I only play on Nightmare with a mod to make it even harder so I'm sure its useful.

[DraksisBG]

I'm gonna go with Dragon Age1103 on that one. People who complain about Archery being underpowered are people who generally have a problem swallowing the fact that archers in this game are not meant for one-shot-killing an enemy. Oops, my bad, Arrow of Slaying does the deal.



Listen, I don't mean to offend nobody. It's obvious though that people just don't get the basic concept of archery in the game. Yes, you're not going to do massive damage with just regular hits, but you don't have to, anyway. The abilities of the Archer are what counts. However, it seems to me that people are complaining about the Talent Tree simply because the three talents that do you good (Scattershot, Arrow of Slaying and Suppressing Fire (trust me, it's very useful)) come a little late in the game, and players just don't have the nerves to level up their characters to that point. Instead, they prefer to go on a hunt with two mages in the party. Which is all well, mind you.



Also, first post. Me rocks.

[ScytheKnightAU]

I've been playing on 1.02a.. and with a well developed archer, lvl 12 just shy of getting AoS/Scatter Shot/Sup Fire... in any sort massive battle, I.E. one or two really hard mobs with lots of weaker mobs swarming the party I was finding that my archery was completely useless.. I would wipe again and again using my well trained archery.. as soon as I went to my untrained duel-wield backstabbing I would win, usually without a single party member dropping.





Now i dare someone to say that there is nothing wrong with that situation... to go from hopeless wipes to easy victory by changing one character from using their most trained tactics to their least trained is something so messed up I can't find words for it that will get throught he filter....

[SusanStoHelit]

As I understand it (on pc, with the latest patch) the damage from using a longbow is calculated using both dexterity and strength (additionally dexterity effects defence, and strength effects chance to hit). Unless you go for Lethality, in which case it is dexterity and cunning that are used in calculating damage. Afaik, chance to hit is still strength though. This means that if you are low on strength you are not going to hit very often - and you are gimping your damage as well.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

ScytheKnightAU wrote...

I've been playing on 1.02a.. and with a well developed archer, lvl 12 just shy of getting AoS/Scatter Shot/Sup Fire... in any sort massive battle, I.E. one or two really hard mobs with lots of weaker mobs swarming the party I was finding that my archery was completely useless.. I would wipe again and again using my well trained archery.. as soon as I went to my untrained duel-wield backstabbing I would win, usually without a single party member dropping.


Now i dare someone to say that there is nothing wrong with that situation... to go from hopeless wipes to easy victory by changing one character from using their most trained tactics to their least trained is something so messed up I can't find words for it that will get throught he filter....

So basically you are saying only your character is doing anything?

Which is why the others have proven themselves right because basically what that means is that you haven't trained your other party members up properly. If you had read what the others have said, then you would realise that archery isn't useless it is just you who is because you can't organise a party

[castaftw]

As for archery talents, arrow of slaying and scattershot are very good.



You can improve your auto attack damage with Leliana or main char like this. Get 20 str for armor use, get 34 dex for the best bow and max cunning. Get the talent lethality as rogue to use cunning instead of str as damage modifier. Get song of courage to increase crit/dmg based on cunning. This one is optional, but it really helps if you are missing a lot, have a mage in the party with a maxed out magic cast heroic offense on you during combat, this will provide a huge attack bonus.

[Dragon Age1103]

ScytheKnightAU wrote...

I've been playing on 1.02a.. and with a well developed archer, lvl 12 just shy of getting AoS/Scatter Shot/Sup Fire... in any sort massive battle, I.E. one or two really hard mobs with lots of weaker mobs swarming the party I was finding that my archery was completely useless.. I would wipe again and again using my well trained archery.. as soon as I went to my untrained duel-wield backstabbing I would win, usually without a single party member dropping.


Now i dare someone to say that there is nothing wrong with that situation... to go from hopeless wipes to easy victory by changing one character from using their most trained tactics to their least trained is something so messed up I can't find words for it that will get throught he filter....

  Your flaw is most likely in your strategy. I send Alistair into battle in shield wall defensive stance, then taunt, he holds all targets while Leliana stands very far away using pinning shot to stop a target from attack my tank from behind then AoS to one shot a mage or another archer. All while my 2 tanks fight & keep aggro my mage casts heals & buffs in the background Leliana hits all the guys my 2 tanks are not currently engaging so when we do they are half dead or more. You can't call something underpowered if you really don't know.
   I am on PC & I only play on nightmare, I do not reload every five seconds but I also refuse to get any injuries on my main char. Which doesn't mean I have to reload often or pause often it means I have to use F1-4 effectively & know what I am doing. Which i do which is why i can safely reassure you Archery is not underpowered you are just overlooking something in your strategy which is your flaw not archery's. Or you just didn't level your archer properly.

[Dragon Age1103]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

As I understand it (on pc, with the latest patch) the damage from using a longbow is calculated using both dexterity and strength (additionally dexterity effects defence, and strength effects chance to hit). Unless you go for Lethality, in which case it is dexterity and cunning that are used in calculating damage. Afaik, chance to hit is still strength though. This means that if you are low on strength you are not going to hit very often - and you are gimping your damage as well.

  I'm not sure how heavily it depends on strength b/c I never take Leliana's voer 20, right now its 11 & she has an average of 78%-86% hit rate bouncing back & forth which isn't so bad at all. I would have to experiment with strength to see how much it effects her but close to 90% is fine for me.

[Alphras]

I played both an archer and an dagger rogue with the exact same party setup. At the end of the game the archer dealt 48% of the party damage and had a hit rate of 89% and the dagger rogue dealt 52% damage with a hit rate of 93%. I wouldn't call that drastically underpowered.

[Zecele]

I've been playing on 1.02a.. and with a well developed archer, lvl 12 just shy of getting AoS/Scatter Shot/Sup Fire... in any sort massive battle, I.E. one or two really hard mobs with lots of weaker mobs swarming the party I was finding that my archery was completely useless.. I would wipe again and again using my well trained archery.. as soon as I went to my untrained duel-wield backstabbing I would win, usually without a single party member dropping.





Now i dare someone to say that there is nothing wrong with that situation

There is something wrong with that situation but it's not the effectiveness of archery. I underlined the relevant part. If you're level 12 and don't have arrow of slaying or scattershot you did something wrong with your build. If you build right you can get 1 of them around level 9/10 and the other after. Big trash packs like what you described are a joke with scattershot.

[bas273]

A well developed archer is one of the deadliest characters in the game. Arrow of Slaying can instantly kill some of the bosses and Scattershot allows you to stun multiple enemies at once.

With the Ranger specialization you can summon a creature to fight for you. Enemies will attack the creature instead of you and these creatures are actually quite powerful (and it's fun to have a wolf following you around ).

[saberaxe]

I must agree doing a second play-through on hard after my normal one and now that I'm actually using the abilities effectively its a joke shatter shot the mobs run in with shale have him bellow then have wynne mind blast while shale charges up a regenerating burst while sniping mages/archers in the back with leliana. You need top realize damage isn't the only thing that matters in a build yes backstab hurts more but doesn't have the utility of ranged.

[Ygolnac]

I have read with interest all the comments about archery, and i did not miss anything on that. I am on third walkthrough, first in hard difficulty, second on nightmare and third on nightmare plus (a mod) and in all of them i always found better thing to handle all the situation you are describing than an archer. And i am not talking only DPS wise, but also pulling, and CC.



Also in nightmare plus i assure you can't one shot anything with any talent/spell of any class, maybe you can just kill a regular mage with a single mana clash.



So maybe i was wrong to say that archery is useless or underpowered, but for my playstyle i have found more efficient ways to handle combats. Of course a rogue is a must have in a party: pull with pets, take care of traps and put your own in front of every enemy with invisibility, and open locks, but still when it comes to fight i prefear my rogue to backstab enemies with daggers.



And to conclude i still think that rolling an archer as PC may result in very frustrating experience in the first 10 lvls, later on with wise distribution of stats/talents thing are going to get a lot better for sure.

[Dragon Age1103]

  Well at least you admit it is not underpowered but i will have to disagree.
I have a mod that makes enemy physical, mental, & spell resistance much much higher. It also lessens the effects of pots & healing spells. Plus changes pots cooldowns to 30 seconds while making them all cooldown at once so no chain chugging.
   Anyways your mod must be very unbalanced b/c a rogue or archer deal just about the same party % for damage & hit rate. 1-5% away from each other. I would still have to say an archer is much more useful but back to the point your mod must be completely unbalanced b/c a talent that deals 100-1000 damage should 1 shot almost any enemy aside from elites & bosses & with crits it will come very close to killing them.

Modifié par Dragon Age1103, 31 décembre 2009 - 06:11 .

[saberaxe]

I don't know what you did to your archer character but I don't think arrow of slaying will come close to 1000 damage without a crit

[Dragon Age1103]

Your archer should be a rogue & with high Dex you have a very high crit chance. If you level your character correctly for an archer & for crits you'll be getting a crit 1 in 5 times or so it seems. Rarely does AoS fail to be a crit shot. 1000 was a bit of an exaggeration but I'm very sure it's possible with the right gear & talents. usually 500-800 damage 250 for a very low. when you first get it AoS starts at like 150 or more damage. Idk if you were the one with the mod perhaps your mod just breaks archery.