40 réponses à ce sujet

[deuce985]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I would not expect it to return in the same way. The encounter design seemed rushed.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Not only waves of paratrooper enemies, but also teleport mages, those are annoying, we click on them to attack, then they just spoof, appear elsewhere then nuke us...

That I would expect back. As well as extremely dangerous backstabbing rogues.

Those were actually challenging to deal with due to their mechanics and not simply having more of them materialize from a different direction, or have a lot of health points.

I'm ok with them coming back. They just need to balance them better. Most notable, stop making the darn Rogues disappear every two seconds. To make matters worse, it seems like you can't knock them out of stealth no matter how much you AOE. That simple mechanic right there pissed me off to no end because I play on nightmare. It was an immediate one-shot to my weakest party member when they came out of stealth. I didn't have craploads of CC, they were hard to kill fast because of them constantly dipping back into stealth. It made nightmare feel artificially difficult and cheap to me. You shouldn't have to battle poor mechanics when you're looking for a challenge.

Now, Legacy, that's an entirely different beast. I LOVED that DLC. If Bioware designed all of DA2 like that DLC, I don't think you'd see half as many complaints about the game. Just the amount of tactical gameplay by itself was entirely different from the rest of DA2. You could use traps, chokepoints, and EVERY encounter was different. They had so much enemy variety and they mixed them up very well. It made every encounter feel unique and you had to plan for it. Wave combat was almost practically gone. I loved it. If Bioware stays in that direction in DA3, I can't wait to see what they do...

Modifié par deuce985, 19 octobre 2012 - 05:37 .

[deuce985]

Night Dreams wrote...

They did sort of fix this issue in Legacy and Mark of Assassin DLC. Although I think there was some sort of wave system, it was more natural and progressive, rather than just having flying bandits raining down upon us.
In other words they are aware of the complaints and already took steps to fix it, so I'd say that would be continued onto DA3:I

It was there but it was more...organic. Which is good. It was just very poorly implemented in DA2. The DLC did it right...

[Mr.House]

I was able to knock stealth rogues out of stealth with fireballs in DA2.

[FINE HERE]

Do you think Bioware made the enemies parachute down because "swooping is bad?"

[Sanunes]

There probably will be a wave system for enemies, but I vaguely remember that during the feedback stage of Dragon Age 2 there was a post indicating they understood the problem that we had with the waves of enemies in Dragon Age 2, but really nobody will really know until we see it for ourselves in Dragon Age 3.

[KiwiQuiche]

Mr.House wrote...

I was able to knock stealth rogues out of stealth with fireballs in DA2.

Mind Blast also works well.

[ioannisdenton]

Waves in Dragon age games...
KILL it with fire (or blood magic).
At least in ME3 (which borrowed ideas from the generally bad dragon age 2; what were they thinking?) waves are handed way better and have a point. Enemies have jetpacks!!!
DO not create wavy combat please.

[Wulfram]

IIRC you can knock rogues out of stealth with any AoE, but you need to wait a little. It won't work if they've just gone into stealth right this second. Just having your squishy guys run away can be a good strategy too. I think DA2 enemy rogues were basically pretty well done, but maybe too tough compared to everyone else. And they could have done with having a few variants.

I don't think the DA2 human mage enemies were very good. They mostly flit around or sat encased in a ball while their companions got slaughtered, then turned up after the battle was basically over and got obliterated. Their only real challenge was that they might wipe out your party before you realised they were there. They had absolutely nothing to do with the way PC mages worked. And they they were all exactly the same, apart from the blood mages, which is a bit tedious. Saarebas were less annoying and more effective because they lacked the protective ball spell, but I still wouldn't consider them a good model for future games.

The wave system in DA2 was grossly over applied, but I trust Bioware know that.

[Pcmag1]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Waves in Dragon age games...
KILL it with fire (or blood magic).
At least in ME3 (which borrowed ideas from the generally bad dragon age 2; what were they thinking?) waves are handed way better and have a point. Enemies have jetpacks!!!
DO not create wavy combat please.

    I have to admitt that I cringed quite a lot when I found out waves are in ME3 as well. Look I could understand of enemies were rushing from surrounding streets, but I just cant get over fact that EVERY brotherhood/sisterhood/ or random group of thugh seems to have reinforcements waiting on rooftops just waiting for a small army to pass by so they can jump down. 
    I seemed to me that by the end of the game, more NPC's jumped of the rooftops then were on ground to begin with. Which is just, strange.
   Same in mass effect, the idea of having jatpack company on evey second base just seemed so idiotic. "Sir this base is very important I suggest we build secure gates that we can lock in case of security breach" "No lets make three companies of jetpack troopers instead, so they can arrive just as our stationed guards die"

[Foolsfolly]

Waves need to be handled deftly.

Not every combat situation calls for three waves of enemies right on top of your head. Having them spawn away from you and thus forcing you to fight a newly arrived front of the battle (like in Legacy) works well.

The fact that ME3's single player uses a wave mechanic and I never thought about it until this thread tells me there's a way to do it right. And BioWare likely knows how to handle it now.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

I don't think the problem was the waves its that enemies just spawned out of nowhere. Like jumping from buildings. Whos idea was that?!

[deuce985]

Mr.House wrote...

I was able to knock stealth rogues out of stealth with fireballs in DA2.

I swear I use to pop AOEs constantly and it never seemed to work. Perhaps it's a mechanic on nightmare? Maybe it's not actually hitting them. I use to pop Firestorms or whatever I could around my party so Assassins wouldn't come in on them. That only seemed to work temporarily. It's like the AI knew to stay out of AOEs until it was over.

Anyways, I learned my lesson the second time through the game. I loaded up on CC and just stunlocked them until I killed them. Because if you didn't, they seemed to stealth every few seconds when you focused on them. Blood Mages hit ridiculously hard but they never gave me much trouble because I sliced through their HP like it was nothing. It was mainly those damn Assassins.

I'd like Bioware to rely less on beefing enemies up on insane HP on nightmare. I honestly think that's bad design, IMO. Boss fights end up being purely about endurance and not much else.

[Pcmag1]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I don't think the problem was the waves its that enemies just spawned out of nowhere. Like jumping from buildings. Whos idea was that?!

I agree, the out of nowhere arrival was the biggest issue. The second I think could be the obviousness, you aways knew when you were about to be ambushed by waves no element of surprise at all. In mass efect it was when you arrived to a spot where there was suspisiously lot of places to take cover behind and in DA2 almost exclusively on some sort of squares.

[deuce985]

Wave combat is only a problem when it's poorly done(captain obvious here).

If you've played the DA2 DLC, then you know that it had wave combat too. It's implemented better because it's more organic.

I'd much prefer DA3 use mechanics between both games. They need encounters like DAO where you could see every enemy available and prep for that. Then they could drop wave enemies(done like DA2 DLC) in obvious situations. Wave combat isn't necessarily terrible when it's done right. Many games use wave combat and it's seamless. You don't recognize it because it's not a glaring flaw that sticks out to you.

Modifié par deuce985, 19 octobre 2012 - 06:02 .

[Foolsfolly]

deuce985 wrote...

Wave combat is only a problem when it's poorly done(captain obvious here).

If you've played the DA2 DLC, then you know that it had wave combat too. It's implemented better because it's more organic.

I'd much prefer DA3 use mechanics between both games. They need encounters like DAO where you could see every enemy available and prep for that. Then they could drop wave enemies(done like DA2 DLC) in obvious situations. Wave combat isn't necessarily terrible when its done right. Many games use wave combat and it's seamless. You don't recognize it because it's not a glaring flaw that sticks out to you.

I really want non-combat stealth back so I can scout and lay traps then funnel enemies into ambushes. I'm fine with waves coming into play at times but I like being the guy ambushing too.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 19 octobre 2012 - 05:56 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

deuce985 wrote...

Wave combat is only a problem when it's poorly done(captain obvious here).

If you've played the DA2 DLC, then you know that it had wave combat too. It's implemented better because it's more organic.

I'd much prefer DA3 use mechanics between both games. They need encounters like DAO where you could see every enemy available and prep for that. Then they could drop wave enemies(done like DA2 DLC) in obvious situations. Wave combat isn't necessarily terrible when it's done right. Many games use wave combat and it's seamless. You don't recognize it because it's not a glaring flaw that sticks out to you.

This.