258 réponses à ce sujet

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Arppis wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I think there was just a "ninja enemy buff" to how they're weapons work because they "weren't" working correctly before the patch/dlc. You still have health/shield gate. As said before multiple hits will always "look" like your shield doesn't work. The GPS situation makes sense. GPS shoots 3 rounds. You can actually be hit by 0~3 of them depending on how your moving. If 2 of them bring your down to your gates, they will activate, while the 3rd impacting will "look" like the gate isn't working at all. Same goes for burst fire enemies, multiple bullets are hitting you, your going down without the "look" of a gate.

Same goes for Brutes and Phantoms (which are now shooting faster btw, before patch/dlc seemed like they fired 0.75s, now its 0.5) which when they melee you, they hit you multiple times in a single melee.

No, all the damage should stop at the last bar of health.

The 3 shots hits together.

This was the case before patch/dlc, and I can remember on several occasions where I've been shot when I have just a sliver of health left and survived. Obviously there is a big difference now, but at the same time I know that bioware is trying to prevent people from gaining easy credits. People could hop from bronze~platinum and camp farm maps for credits they couldn't earn otherwise if they weren't "over" exploiting the AI.

The gates imo were "fixed" (which is why bioware says they are working properly, even though we thought they were before.) Multiple hits now deal damage even though your at that last sliver of shield/health, your no longer invincible for as long a duration.

To test this out, and everyone can do this, solo/friend your way through a ceberus G+ game until you end up with 1 nemesis remaining. Have her shoot you and notice ----- you get gated. I tested it out myself because instead of claiming they weren't working, I used what I know about the game and tryed things out. Same would apply with a rocket trooper as long as your hit with a single rocket and not the 2~3 hit combo.

What players are experiencing are a combanation of, as players said in other post,

-Gates being activated, then regained, then before the "4 second limit" shot again and not getting gates.
-Gates actually activating, but being useless because they are being hit by multiple enemies- multiple "bullets"
-Lag...
-Players simply not paying attention. ( I even still have my moments, especially with dragoons.)

Either way, I have learned that, hey, this game wont change from complaining overnight. What I choose to do is ADAPT. The game is still not hard, you just have to take the enemies more seriously now. I learned to actually play the game from playing as level 1 characters all the time in gold. Playing as a level 20 definetly makes people more "careless" than they need to be, and now bioware is punishing that due to credit farming.

I accept the new challenge. Btw... All 3 shots DO NOT always hit at once..

[rgeshevv]

Distilled Poison wrote...
Your video clearly shows the gates working, but the opposite may not be true. We can't see if you had just recovered from damage, and we can't see if a Trooper is shooting you alongside the Hunter. It's inconclusive.

It's really not like black and white picture, BUT he had 3 bars of health and full shields, which mean both gates were active. There is a posibility of he being shot by a trooper besides the hunter, but for me this video still raise some eyebrows. I'm experiencing some weird deaths too as many around here.

[birdland 1115]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Because the full vid is 20 minutes long. I could upload it if you like, but it won't be 60 FPS. And it will take me like 20 hours to upload.

If it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate seeing this part of the film in slow motion (maybe just the 1 second where you're downed at 1 frame per second).

Note: I'm not trying to call you a liar, I'm just curious as this isn't an issue I've noticed and would like to see the evidence with my own eyes.

[Descy_]

Oh, that's what healthgate is?

Yeah, I've been dying like that alot in my recent time playing. Thought I was just bad at the game, lol.

[Lord Chun]

Sirian you got three hrs till devs show up FYI

[NuclearTech76]

I've heard Bioware's response, I believe they're trying to pin down exactly what is going on but can't to this point. Video evidence will go a long way into helping them figure out what is going on.

[Eckswhyzed]

Razerath wrote...

Tried my Melee GI build last night since the DLC and I can confirm that the issue shown in the video happens exactly as Lord Sirian said.

No matter what the healthgate should be, it wasn't like this before the DLC.

My melee GI is fine post-patch. Then again, I am hosting most of my games. So lag problems with gating aren't an issue. 

[DJ Airsurfer]

Geth Hunters are the epitome of broken, not just a gate issue. Stunlock causing instant death right after revive, etc etc.

[count_4]

Anagorrax wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Ok, what level were you playing on? Were you hosting? Did you use any shield boosting gear? What spec did you have? Were both examples filmed in the same game?
 I've watched the video and it looks like you had the off host lag problem.

 

Gold
No I wasn't hosting
No I had a power amp on.
Full fitness in shields
Yes both examples were in the same game

Whether the problem is lag-related or not it does not change the fact that healthgate simply DID NOT WORK in the second example. The fact that it doesn't happen on-host or whatever is as irrelevant as the fact that the vanguard glitch did not happen on-host.

Its not that Healthgate/shield gate didn't work its thet you didn't SEE it work and that is LAG related. From what I have experienced the gates are not broken and are visible when you are hosting but there has been some significant change in how data is handled by the host and this at times seems to result in people appearing to be killed without things triggering.

The gates are triggering but the info about it is being communicated late and the game visuals don't correlate that properly. because of the delay.

Bioware is looking into the problems and while I agree its important to keep feed back like this coming in, after all the debate that occured in the thread (now unstickied I see) over the weekend, a more definite conclusion was reached that it is a lag issue that is related to the vanguard fix and how hosting games now handle player data.

Don't waste your time, OP clearly knows better what is happening here than everybody else. BioWare included. But I like that fact that the ultimate cause was lag and lag handling, since I've been saying this since day one. Even made a thread explaining it...that no-one cared about. <_<

[Silent Indignation]

edit... just read the posts above about lag, I had a feeling that was the cause.

Modifié par Silent Indignation, 16 octobre 2012 - 01:42 .

[Arppis]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I think there was just a "ninja enemy buff" to how they're weapons work because they "weren't" working correctly before the patch/dlc. You still have health/shield gate. As said before multiple hits will always "look" like your shield doesn't work. The GPS situation makes sense. GPS shoots 3 rounds. You can actually be hit by 0~3 of them depending on how your moving. If 2 of them bring your down to your gates, they will activate, while the 3rd impacting will "look" like the gate isn't working at all. Same goes for burst fire enemies, multiple bullets are hitting you, your going down without the "look" of a gate.

Same goes for Brutes and Phantoms (which are now shooting faster btw, before patch/dlc seemed like they fired 0.75s, now its 0.5) which when they melee you, they hit you multiple times in a single melee.

No, all the damage should stop at the last bar of health.

The 3 shots hits together.

This was the case before patch/dlc, and I can remember on several occasions where I've been shot when I have just a sliver of health left and survived. Obviously there is a big difference now, but at the same time I know that bioware is trying to prevent people from gaining easy credits. People could hop from bronze~platinum and camp farm maps for credits they couldn't earn otherwise if they weren't "over" exploiting the AI.

The gates imo were "fixed" (which is why bioware says they are working properly, even though we thought they were before.) Multiple hits now deal damage even though your at that last sliver of shield/health, your no longer invincible for as long a duration.

To test this out, and everyone can do this, solo/friend your way through a ceberus G+ game until you end up with 1 nemesis remaining. Have her shoot you and notice ----- you get gated. I tested it out myself because instead of claiming they weren't working, I used what I know about the game and tryed things out. Same would apply with a rocket trooper as long as your hit with a single rocket and not the 2~3 hit combo.

What players are experiencing are a combanation of, as players said in other post,

-Gates being activated, then regained, then before the "4 second limit" shot again and not getting gates.
-Gates actually activating, but being useless because they are being hit by multiple enemies- multiple "bullets"
-Lag...
-Players simply not paying attention. ( I even still have my moments, especially with dragoons.)

Either way, I have learned that, hey, this game wont change from complaining overnight. What I choose to do is ADAPT. The game is still not hard, you just have to take the enemies more seriously now. I learned to actually play the game from playing as level 1 characters all the time in gold. Playing as a level 20 definetly makes people more "careless" than they need to be, and now bioware is punishing that due to credit farming.

I accept the new challenge. Btw... All 3 shots DO NOT always hit at once..

Well, the thing is that if the gates are broken, there might be more about it than just simply testing it with Nemesis. It might be sittulational breakage.

And: complaining is what got people their precious new DLC ending, complaining got Vanguard glitch fixed finaly, complaining works.

Yes, yes, people might not like that vid, but whatever. It's how it is.

Modifié par Arppis, 16 octobre 2012 - 01:42 .

[Fox-snipe]

birdland 1115 wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Because the full vid is 20 minutes long. I could upload it if you like, but it won't be 60 FPS. And it will take me like 20 hours to upload.

If it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate seeing this part of the film in slow motion (maybe just the 1 second where you're downed at 1 frame per second).

Note: I'm not trying to call you a liar, I'm just curious as this isn't an issue I've noticed and would like to see the evidence with my own eyes.

Even just screenshots of the frames would be interesting I think.  I don't doubt the video one bit, I'm just really interested to what each step shows.

Someone mentioned how the animation lags behind the actual numbers.  That really only applies to Shields since they have a drain animation.  Health has always dropped off in chunks.  That's not to say that Host-Client lag doesn't play a role, but it's only the Shield UI that's misleading really.

[FlowCytometry]

I think hunter shots honestly can bypass the crit health gate but not the shield gate, and they always have been like that :/

[KiraTsukasa]

count_4 wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Ok, what level were you playing on? Were you hosting? Did you use any shield boosting gear? What spec did you have? Were both examples filmed in the same game?
 I've watched the video and it looks like you had the off host lag problem.

 

Gold
No I wasn't hosting
No I had a power amp on.
Full fitness in shields
Yes both examples were in the same game

Whether the problem is lag-related or not it does not change the fact that healthgate simply DID NOT WORK in the second example. The fact that it doesn't happen on-host or whatever is as irrelevant as the fact that the vanguard glitch did not happen on-host.

Its not that Healthgate/shield gate didn't work its thet you didn't SEE it work and that is LAG related. From what I have experienced the gates are not broken and are visible when you are hosting but there has been some significant change in how data is handled by the host and this at times seems to result in people appearing to be killed without things triggering.

The gates are triggering but the info about it is being communicated late and the game visuals don't correlate that properly. because of the delay.

Bioware is looking into the problems and while I agree its important to keep feed back like this coming in, after all the debate that occured in the thread (now unstickied I see) over the weekend, a more definite conclusion was reached that it is a lag issue that is related to the vanguard fix and how hosting games now handle player data.

Don't waste your time, OP clearly knows better what is happening here than everybody else. BioWare included. But I like that fact that the ultimate cause was lag and lag handling, since I've been saying this since day one. Even made a thread explaining it...that no-one cared about. <_<

Before DLC: On bronze and silver I could easily not go down once. Off host. Any race/class combo. Any weapon loadout. Any build. Any faction.

After DLC: Same computer, same internet connection, same everything except now it is post-DLC. I'm dying faster than William Hung's singing career, whether I'm host or not.

There is something wrong, and it isn't lag.

[C2Dre]

Regardless of their "findings"... there IS something terribly wrong. Doesn't matter if it's a glitch or an intentional change to the game mechanics, it needs to be fixed/changed.

[KiraTsukasa]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I think there was just a "ninja enemy buff" to how they're weapons work because they "weren't" working correctly before the patch/dlc. You still have health/shield gate. As said before multiple hits will always "look" like your shield doesn't work. The GPS situation makes sense. GPS shoots 3 rounds. You can actually be hit by 0~3 of them depending on how your moving. If 2 of them bring your down to your gates, they will activate, while the 3rd impacting will "look" like the gate isn't working at all. Same goes for burst fire enemies, multiple bullets are hitting you, your going down without the "look" of a gate.

Same goes for Brutes and Phantoms (which are now shooting faster btw, before patch/dlc seemed like they fired 0.75s, now its 0.5) which when they melee you, they hit you multiple times in a single melee.

No, all the damage should stop at the last bar of health.

The 3 shots hits together.

This was the case before patch/dlc, and I can remember on several occasions where I've been shot when I have just a sliver of health left and survived. Obviously there is a big difference now, but at the same time I know that bioware is trying to prevent people from gaining easy credits. People could hop from bronze~platinum and camp farm maps for credits they couldn't earn otherwise if they weren't "over" exploiting the AI.

The gates imo were "fixed" (which is why bioware says they are working properly, even though we thought they were before.) Multiple hits now deal damage even though your at that last sliver of shield/health, your no longer invincible for as long a duration.

To test this out, and everyone can do this, solo/friend your way through a ceberus G+ game until you end up with 1 nemesis remaining. Have her shoot you and notice ----- you get gated. I tested it out myself because instead of claiming they weren't working, I used what I know about the game and tryed things out. Same would apply with a rocket trooper as long as your hit with a single rocket and not the 2~3 hit combo.

What players are experiencing are a combanation of, as players said in other post,

-Gates being activated, then regained, then before the "4 second limit" shot again and not getting gates.
-Gates actually activating, but being useless because they are being hit by multiple enemies- multiple "bullets"
-Lag...
-Players simply not paying attention. ( I even still have my moments, especially with dragoons.)

Either way, I have learned that, hey, this game wont change from complaining overnight. What I choose to do is ADAPT. The game is still not hard, you just have to take the enemies more seriously now. I learned to actually play the game from playing as level 1 characters all the time in gold. Playing as a level 20 definetly makes people more "careless" than they need to be, and now bioware is punishing that due to credit farming.

I accept the new challenge. Btw... All 3 shots DO NOT always hit at once..

The bigget flaw with this is that BioWare doesn't care about farming. They care about camping, which is why White and Glacier got changes and geth bombers and dragoons were added to the game. And those new units could be a contributing factor to the game being a million times harder, but it doesn't explain why the reaper faction is also affected the same way.

[regack]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Either way, I have learned that, hey, this game wont change from complaining overnight. What I choose to do is ADAPT. The game is still not hard, you just have to take the enemies more seriously now.

Sure... I'm still playing... I've changed my play to compensate for the change... I've also had to adapt to new enemy types and movement patterns... but that doesn't mean I'm going to just be quiet about something that feels somewhat broken from how it was before.  If it's not broken and this is how it will be from now on, well, so be it, but if I don't ask for a closer look/fix/change then certainly nothing will be done.

[Zero132132]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Ok, what level were you playing on? Were you hosting? Did you use any shield boosting gear? What spec did you have? Were both examples filmed in the same game?
 I've watched the video and it looks like you had the off host lag problem.

 

Gold
No I wasn't hosting
No I had a power amp on.
Full fitness in shields
Yes both examples were in the same game

Whether the problem is lag-related or not it does not change the fact that healthgate simply DID NOT WORK in the second example. The fact that it doesn't happen on-host or whatever is as irrelevant as the fact that the vanguard glitch did not happen on-host.

I'm betting automatic fire from some damned place is what got you, not the hunter shot alone. 0.1 seconds is nearly imperceptible. What I want to see are videos from before the change, to see if the gates were previously bugged, with the invulnerability at 0.5 seconds for all difficulties.

[Slother93]

I started noticing this problem the Friday BEFORE the balance changes that were a week BEFORE the patch. I even had some friends comment that I was going down a lot which was unusual. So I'm not sure what was going on (was I being experimented with?) but it seems like the changes that caused this could have rolled out with the balance changes and not necessarily the patch. Is that even possible?

[ryanshowseason3]

You're assuming that the GUI is displayed in realtime with the engine and business logic as well though which isn't necessarily true. GUI threads in almost all cases are set to lower priority than engine and networking threads within the same process. Your bars are tied to those threads. If the threads are not scheduled and update the GUI you will never even see the health or shield gate. There are other latencies involved as well beyond the threads, screen updates, GFX call latencies etc.

The focus instead should be put on whether it was possible you could have died in the time frame in question. I assume we see you hitting the shield gate in the video. How much time elapses between that point and when you die? Can't tell very well with youtube since it only reports whole seconds. If a timespan greater than .1 occurred it is entirely possible for you to have died and the healthgate was in fact intact.

[ASmoothCriminalx]

**edit** nevermind

Modifié par ASmoothCriminalx, 16 octobre 2012 - 02:33 .

[count_4]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Ok, what level were you playing on? Were you hosting? Did you use any shield boosting gear? What spec did you have? Were both examples filmed in the same game?
 I've watched the video and it looks like you had the off host lag problem.

 

Gold
No I wasn't hosting
No I had a power amp on.
Full fitness in shields
Yes both examples were in the same game

Whether the problem is lag-related or not it does not change the fact that healthgate simply DID NOT WORK in the second example. The fact that it doesn't happen on-host or whatever is as irrelevant as the fact that the vanguard glitch did not happen on-host.

Its not that Healthgate/shield gate didn't work its thet you didn't SEE it work and that is LAG related. From what I have experienced the gates are not broken and are visible when you are hosting but there has been some significant change in how data is handled by the host and this at times seems to result in people appearing to be killed without things triggering.

The gates are triggering but the info about it is being communicated late and the game visuals don't correlate that properly. because of the delay.

Bioware is looking into the problems and while I agree its important to keep feed back like this coming in, after all the debate that occured in the thread (now unstickied I see) over the weekend, a more definite conclusion was reached that it is a lag issue that is related to the vanguard fix and how hosting games now handle player data.

 

Thanks for the brilliant explanation that I had not considered.

I guess lag didn't exist pre-DLC then.

/sarcasm

It's amusing to see you squirming so you don't have to admit that you have been wrong. Bioware stated that it is a lag issue related to a fix in the DLC and you still refuse to accept it. Boy, are you ridiculous.