A thought:
Perhaps it isn't that the health gate is not working. But that the GUI isn't updating for us to even see it. The perception being that it is gone.
This should be evaluated in terms of "Could I have died in the allotted period of time if gates were working"
ATTN: Bioware: Healthgate is NOT working fine. (Video proof again).
Débuté par
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
, oct. 16 2012 11:18
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#102
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:39
Yate
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Can we please get a dev response on whether this is intended behaviour or not?
I mean, if the devs say "yep, the game is supposed to be this hard, suck it", we can deal. It's the not knowing that's annoying.
I mean, if the devs say "yep, the game is supposed to be this hard, suck it", we can deal. It's the not knowing that's annoying.
#103
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:41
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
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Yate wrote...
Can we please get a dev response on whether this is intended behaviour or not?
I mean, if the devs say "yep, the game is supposed to be this hard, suck it", we can deal. It's the not knowing that's annoying.
Agreed. Communication with players is paramount. The inconsistency is what bothers me. Not the fact that it happens, just the fact that you never know if you're going to die instantly or actually get healthgate.
#104
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:42
Yate
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Yeah. Difficulty is fine, cheap difficulty through glitchy mechanics is just annoying.
#105
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:42
Homey C-Dawg
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This video perfectly demonstrates what I frequently experience as well.
I know Bioware denies it, but so many of us can feel and see the difference since the patch that there is obviously something up with the gates.
I know Bioware denies it, but so many of us can feel and see the difference since the patch that there is obviously something up with the gates.
#106
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:43
Emerald_Phoenix
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Don't forget the hunter is using the Geth plasma shotgun that fires multiple pellets. The second and third pellets could have negated your healthgate.
#107
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:43
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
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ryanshowseason3 wrote...
A thought:
Perhaps it isn't that the health gate is not working. But that the GUI isn't updating for us to even see it. The perception being that it is gone.
This should be evaluated in terms of "Could I have died in the allotted period of time if gates were working"
The answer to that question in this case is no. I was only under attack by a Hunter. (I did get hit by a Prime shot during the immunity period of the shieldgate cooldown (virtually hit at the same time as the Hunter shot) but the further shots were blocked by cover. (That's why I got into cover in the first place, reasoning that I could tank the next Hunter shot, throw an arc grenade and live on healthgate).
No such luck, the next hunter shot took me from 3 bars to dead instantly. There was no other fire that could hit me at the time.
#108
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:45
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*
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Emerald_Phoenix wrote...
Don't forget the hunter is using the Geth plasma shotgun that fires multiple pellets. The second and third pellets could have negated your healthgate.
Did you even read my post? That's the first point I covered.
#109
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:45
Emerald_Phoenix
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Lord_Sirian wrote...
Emerald_Phoenix wrote...
Don't forget the hunter is using the Geth plasma shotgun that fires multiple pellets. The second and third pellets could have negated your healthgate.
Did you even read my post? That's the first point I covered.
Sorry man - Hard to go through 5 pages of thread. I saw it now.
#110
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:46
IronRush
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My health gate is ok. I am gold player.
#111
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:47
Darthvero
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I've played more than enough to know that healthgate isn't working properly since Retaliation came out. BW says that they can't find anything wrong, but I think they have a single intern looking all the while ignoring what he finds. I believe it's the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "lalalalalalalala!"
#112
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:48
K9lArthur
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I think the issue is that health/shield gates work on one enemy only, so you're screwed if 2 are shooting at you at a time.
#113
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:50
EVILFLUFFMONSTER
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I have been dropping a lot more recently, but I put it down to combined fire. the other alternative I thought, mainly because I haven't looked into it and don't really pay much attention - is that the recent damage bleed through shield gate buff that all the snipers were crowing about not so long ago, actually might work sometimes the other way around..
""----------------------------------------------------------------------------
August 28, 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gold and Platinum Difficulties
- Enemy shield/barrier damage gates on weapon damage reduced from 90% to 75%, which means
25% of the remaining weapon damage will pass through to health.""
So the shield gate activates, but some damage has already passed through, making it look like it hasn't. I thought perhaps if the damage was great enough to reach the second health gate, after it has already passed through the first(shield gate) it might not apply the second(health gate). This may be totally unrealistic, due to the amount of damage needed to bypass both gates in one go could be huge, but I thought it might be potentially possible if already close to the shield gate and playing a character with lower health. With a weapon like the GPS which fires three projectiles - perhaps the other two projectiles pass the gate, and the bleed-though damage of the first shield gate somehow prevents the health gate from activating or kills them before it essentially activates, due to adding the damage AFTER the shield gate animation AFTER the other two projectiles have already hit..
Changing the enemy shield gates may have inadvertently changed ours in some way, perhaps only with certain difficulties, namely those mentioned, or with certain weapons or enemies, who knows..
Or I could just be blathering incoherently. I myself really wouldnt know.
""----------------------------------------------------------------------------
August 28, 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gold and Platinum Difficulties
- Enemy shield/barrier damage gates on weapon damage reduced from 90% to 75%, which means
25% of the remaining weapon damage will pass through to health.""
So the shield gate activates, but some damage has already passed through, making it look like it hasn't. I thought perhaps if the damage was great enough to reach the second health gate, after it has already passed through the first(shield gate) it might not apply the second(health gate). This may be totally unrealistic, due to the amount of damage needed to bypass both gates in one go could be huge, but I thought it might be potentially possible if already close to the shield gate and playing a character with lower health. With a weapon like the GPS which fires three projectiles - perhaps the other two projectiles pass the gate, and the bleed-though damage of the first shield gate somehow prevents the health gate from activating or kills them before it essentially activates, due to adding the damage AFTER the shield gate animation AFTER the other two projectiles have already hit..
Changing the enemy shield gates may have inadvertently changed ours in some way, perhaps only with certain difficulties, namely those mentioned, or with certain weapons or enemies, who knows..
Or I could just be blathering incoherently. I myself really wouldnt know.
#114
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:52
Yate
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Emerald_Phoenix wrote...
Don't forget the hunter is using the Geth plasma shotgun that fires multiple pellets. The second and third pellets could have negated your healthgate.
if that's the case why have healthgate at all?
#115
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:53
KiraTsukasa
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K1LL STREAK wrote...
I have been dropping a lot more recently, but I put it down to combined fire. the other alternative I thought, mainly because I haven't looked into it and don't really pay much attention - is that the recent damage bleed through shield gate buff that all the snipers were crowing about not so long ago, actually might work sometimes the other way around..
""----------------------------------------------------------------------------
August 28, 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gold and Platinum Difficulties
- Enemy shield/barrier damage gates on weapon damage reduced from 90% to 75%, which means
25% of the remaining weapon damage will pass through to health.""
So the shield gate activates, but some damage has already passed through, making it look like it hasn't. I thought perhaps if the damage was great enough to reach the second health gate, after it has already passed through the first(shield gate) it might not apply the second(health gate). This may be totally unrealistic, due to the amount of damage needed to bypass both gates in one go could be huge, but I thought it might be potentially possible if already close to the shield gate and playing a character with lower health. With a weapon like the GPS which fires three projectiles - perhaps the other two projectiles pass the gate, and the bleed-though damage of the first shield gate somehow prevents the health gate from activating or kills them before it essentially activates, due to adding the damage AFTER the shield gate animation AFTER the other two projectiles have already hit..
Changing the enemy shield gates may have inadvertently changed ours in some way, perhaps only with certain difficulties, namely those mentioned, or with certain weapons or enemies, who knows..
Or I could just be blathering incoherently. I myself really wouldnt know.
That balance change happened in August, long before the recent DLC. These problems we are experiencing have cropped up after the DLC.
#116
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:55
LC-Manalishi
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You're right. I play Fury all the time. I learned how to deal with being seriously squishy before, but things are different now after the patch. The problem the OP is showing with video makes sense. In the past, I had a pretty good idea when I was going to die and could often do things to avoid it. Now, it seems, a lot of times I'm dead without any indication it's imminent. I'm adjusting to it, but I do die more often now and using a lot more medigels. I used to maintain about 25-30 medigels in my stockpile, which would get replenished naturally and periodically just buying SP and PSP. Lately, I've been running out of gels and having to buy JEP pretty often.Star fury wrote...
Playing drell and asari adepts is painful now. Any squishy charater dies a lot more than before. Even while using destroyer or krogan I drop dead while in the cover. Something is wrong with gates. All my friends experience same issues.
#117
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 02:59
KiraTsukasa
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count_4 wrote...
It's amusing to see you squirming so you don't have to admit that you have been wrong. Bioware stated that it is a lag issue related to a fix in the DLC and you still refuse to accept it. Boy, are you ridiculous.Lord_Sirian wrote...
Anagorrax wrote...
Lord_Sirian wrote...
Anagorrax wrote...
Ok, what level were you playing on? Were you hosting? Did you use any shield boosting gear? What spec did you have? Were both examples filmed in the same game?
I've watched the video and it looks like you had the off host lag problem.
Gold
No I wasn't hosting
No I had a power amp on.
Full fitness in shields
Yes both examples were in the same game
Whether the problem is lag-related or not it does not change the fact that healthgate simply DID NOT WORK in the second example. The fact that it doesn't happen on-host or whatever is as irrelevant as the fact that the vanguard glitch did not happen on-host.
Its not that Healthgate/shield gate didn't work its thet you didn't SEE it work and that is LAG related. From what I have experienced the gates are not broken and are visible when you are hosting but there has been some significant change in how data is handled by the host and this at times seems to result in people appearing to be killed without things triggering.
The gates are triggering but the info about it is being communicated late and the game visuals don't correlate that properly. because of the delay.
Bioware is looking into the problems and while I agree its important to keep feed back like this coming in, after all the debate that occured in the thread (now unstickied I see) over the weekend, a more definite conclusion was reached that it is a lag issue that is related to the vanguard fix and how hosting games now handle player data.
Thanks for the brilliant explanation that I had not considered.
I guess lag didn't exist pre-DLC then.
/sarcasm
That has nothing to do with shield/health gate and everything to do with the host controlling when off host players can use biotic charge.
It's amusing to see you take things out of context to try to make someone wrong.
#118
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:14
vlight
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Are you sure that the cover is safe there? You are on the lower ground and the enemy on the left can pottentialy shoot you. Just a thought....Lord_Sirian wrote...
The answer to that question in this case is no. I was only under attack by a Hunter. (I did get hit by a Prime shot during the immunity period of the shieldgate cooldown (virtually hit at the same time as the Hunter shot) but the further shots were blocked by cover. (That's why I got into cover in the first place, reasoning that I could tank the next Hunter shot, throw an arc grenade and live on healthgate).
No such luck, the next hunter shot took me from 3 bars to dead instantly. There was no other fire that could hit me at the time.
#119
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:15
Lives Must Die
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You guys understand that most of their team is probably just now getting into the office, right? This was posted like 4 hours ago.. meaning it was around 4am for the devs. Be patient!
But I do think you could do more to test. The only thing I wonder about is if it's hosting or non hosting. I notice I do still have a proper healthgate when I host, and have sometimes none when I am not hosting... especially if it's a bad connection or a laggy host. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this were the case.
I love to play as the Slayer for many of my matches, and since I use PD as his main source of damage, hosting is a must. I played as a Slayer without hosting though, and I did notice I died a lot more, not because I was being an arse and charging into battle, but because I had no healthgate, or at least it seemed like it. I want to say it is lag-based. Try doing another test... one as host, one as off-host.
But I do think you could do more to test. The only thing I wonder about is if it's hosting or non hosting. I notice I do still have a proper healthgate when I host, and have sometimes none when I am not hosting... especially if it's a bad connection or a laggy host. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this were the case.
I love to play as the Slayer for many of my matches, and since I use PD as his main source of damage, hosting is a must. I played as a Slayer without hosting though, and I did notice I died a lot more, not because I was being an arse and charging into battle, but because I had no healthgate, or at least it seemed like it. I want to say it is lag-based. Try doing another test... one as host, one as off-host.
#120
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:17
ryanshowseason3
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Lord_Sirian wrote...
ryanshowseason3 wrote...
A thought:
Perhaps it isn't that the health gate is not working. But that the GUI isn't updating for us to even see it. The perception being that it is gone.
This should be evaluated in terms of "Could I have died in the allotted period of time if gates were working"
The answer to that question in this case is no. I was only under attack by a Hunter. (I did get hit by a Prime shot during the immunity period of the shieldgate cooldown (virtually hit at the same time as the Hunter shot) but the further shots were blocked by cover. (That's why I got into cover in the first place, reasoning that I could tank the next Hunter shot, throw an arc grenade and live on healthgate).
No such luck, the next hunter shot took me from 3 bars to dead instantly. There was no other fire that could hit me at the time.
I'm not saying you're a bad player, but I meant in the timing period was it possible to have died. We are not and cannot be situationally aware at all times of everything. It isn't impossible an unseen enemy took a shot at you.
Also I notice when you go down a shot being fired from the upper left of the screen. but for it to have hit you would mean it went through the cover... And you are host in this game correct?
#121
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:17
capn233
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You should just say it outright.Lives Must Die wrote...
I want to say it is lag-based.
#122
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:18
kmmd60
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Dev response is seriously needed. Gate mechanic works on silver (most of the time, as long as the host isn't laggy). This vid clearly show that something isn't right about gate on gold.
#123
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:22
DHKany
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All my CQC classes have to pack a cyclonic IV now.
And I don't want to run a Cyclonic all the time. Seriously Devs, my experience with all my CQC classes have been.... pretty crap lately.
And I don't want to run a Cyclonic all the time. Seriously Devs, my experience with all my CQC classes have been.... pretty crap lately.
#124
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:24
Kristen Schanche
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We don't have anything additional to comment on this time that hasn't already been commented in the gate thread. Our response remains the same:
It is being investigated. Currently we have found no issues with the gates, and after heavy digging through the code, there is nothing that has been changed that would touch them, however we are not saying that there absolutely is no problem, just that we haven't located it at this time.
Our efforts have mostly shifted however to seeing what changes we'd like to make towards fixing the unintended spike in difficulty. After implementing some of those fixes we will see what effect that is having if any on this issue and then reassess.
It is being investigated. Currently we have found no issues with the gates, and after heavy digging through the code, there is nothing that has been changed that would touch them, however we are not saying that there absolutely is no problem, just that we haven't located it at this time.
Our efforts have mostly shifted however to seeing what changes we'd like to make towards fixing the unintended spike in difficulty. After implementing some of those fixes we will see what effect that is having if any on this issue and then reassess.
#125
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 03:26
IronRush
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Chris Schanche wrote...
We don't have anything additional to comment on this time that hasn't already been commented in the gate thread. Our response remains the same:
It is being investigated. Currently we have found no issues with the gates, and after heavy digging through the code, there is nothing that has been changed that would touch them, however we are not saying that there absolutely is no problem, just that we haven't located it at this time.
Our efforts have mostly shifted however to seeing what changes we'd like to make towards fixing the unintended spike in difficulty. After implementing some of those fixes we will see what effect that is having if any on this issue and then reassess.
Difficulty is ok Chris.
