258 réponses à ce sujet

[Rudest]

A very informative thread! Good read. Thanks Lord_Sirian!

Carry on! <.<

[regack]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Being a client can lead to situations like in the original video this since there is a delay between getting up to date health information from the host. There could have been a delay between receiving a health bar update from the host that would have put you in your health gate, before the next update which killed you. In my opinion, it is not possible to conclusively say that the health or shield gates are not working on a client with a video since clients only see a simulation of the game. On Gold, there is only a 0.1 second gate, which is often shorter than the ping time between players. Even if the client doesn't "see" the gate, it is still happening on the host since the host has full authority on all damage systems.

First, thanks Eric for responding in here, even when there was already the other stickied thread before. 

So we can boil this down to mean that unless you're the host, you might be at a severe disadvantage for actually knowing the state of your health/shields, as the GUI is the only representation we have, and our client may not even have the most up-to-date game data.  

I think the problem here is that people are percieving it as a 'Gate' problem, when, as it was described before, it really is lag related, causing the GUI (our only point of reference) to display misleading information.   The actual gate mechanics may not have changed, but if the host is now the de facto decision maker, then lag will play an even greater role in what the clients will perceive.  This would explain the inconsistencies as well as why it feels harder... you're playing without the latest information, making choices based on bad data.  

I (probably we, but I don't want to speak for everyone) appreciate that you're looking into it, and I hope there is a way to rebalance to account for this, because the bad-data-lag-induced-unreliable-visual-indicator-of-the-gates can be fustrating.  Thanks!

[Bleachrude]

Atlases and Scions both have DoT effects. ....probably something weird happening with that...

[JohnDoe]

N7Kopper wrote...

"Stop denying the existence"
Their tests turned up nothing.
Clearly, yours did. It doesn't mean they're taking lying paste through an emergency induction port.

local network test != online test.

most of the bugs happen online.
the whole vanguard glitching bug happens almost all the time when you're NOT the host.

[TheGoda]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
Scions in my experience do NOT have a DOT, but do have a persistent effect that stops your shields from regenerating. I could be wrong, but I personally have never died from a Scion shot after the initial damage was dealt, even when that shot took me to healthgate.

they may not have a dot but from how the game feels like it plays, if your shield isn't recharging you're taking damage, even if its 1/2 a point of hp or shields. Idk I was just trying to help, but there definitely is something that stops shield regen and that could effect shield gate somehow? I wish I knew more about programming for this game... Or at all actually lol

[N7-RedFox]

Chris Schanche wrote...

I don't want to derail this thread too much into talking about difficulty, Lord_Sirian created it primarily to talk about the health gates so lets try to keep it on topic.

For quick difficulty answers, our initial changes will probably target bronze and silver, from testing at work, playing at home, and assessing the information we've gotten back, it's pretty clear we've harmed the experience of the players who prefer to play on those difficulties, particularly with Cerberus.

We are all mostly happy with how gold is playing, and most of us play gold at home on our retail normal accounts, but are keeping an eye on things and haven't decided yet what if anything we are going to do there.

We have been looking out for this health/shield gate issue while playing live at home, we don't use special copies of the game, I play on 360 with a normal collectors edition on my normal cable internet connection. I havn't seen this issue happen yet and I'm playing a few hours every night right now. But again, there could still be something there, and when and if we find it, we'll report further.

We know this is a pretty big community concern right now so we're trying to stay very vocal about what the state of things is.

Could the Bug be PC exclusive? Maybe that's why u haven't seen it? Or are Xbox/PS3 players getting the same problem?

[PyroByte]

regack wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Being a client can lead to situations like in the original video this since there is a delay between getting up to date health information from the host. There could have been a delay between receiving a health bar update from the host that would have put you in your health gate, before the next update which killed you. In my opinion, it is not possible to conclusively say that the health or shield gates are not working on a client with a video since clients only see a simulation of the game. On Gold, there is only a 0.1 second gate, which is often shorter than the ping time between players. Even if the client doesn't "see" the gate, it is still happening on the host since the host has full authority on all damage systems.

First, thanks Eric for responding in here, even when there was already the other stickied thread before. 

So we can boil this down to mean that unless you're the host, you might be at a severe disadvantage for actually knowing the state of your health/shields, as the GUI is the only representation we have, and our client may not even have the most up-to-date game data.  

I think the problem here is that people are percieving it as a 'Gate' problem, when, as it was described before, it really is lag related, causing the GUI (our only point of reference) to display misleading information.   The actual gate mechanics may not have changed, but if the host is now the de facto decision maker, then lag will play an even greater role in what the clients will perceive.  This would explain the inconsistencies as well as why it feels harder... you're playing without the latest information, making choices based on bad data.  

I (probably we, but I don't want to speak for everyone) appreciate that you're looking into it, and I hope there is a way to rebalance to account for this, because the bad-data-lag-induced-unreliable-visual-indicator-of-the-gates can be fustrating.  Thanks!

The delayed damage input to the client player makes the game less controllable and deaths become a matter of randomness withouth the player being able to prevent them. The feeling for the game that developped the past 6 months is gone. Rushing spawn points or CQC classes are now a gamble because you can drop dead all of a sudden without much input. It also kills the fun and increases frustration due to the loss of control.

Not much fun in playing a vorcha when a Geth Hunter one shots you eventhough you had 3 bloodlust stacks and full health (on the client side).

[Anagorrax]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

While I understand this and I can see your point of view (I know how frustrating it is to look for a problem only to not find it or anything that should cause it). I did not experience this sort of thing at all before the patch which fixed the Vanguard glitch (which I am very grateful for BTW). I always got healthgate unless it was an autofire enemy like a trooper or geth turret etc.

Since the patch I have been getting one-shotted by single enemies with slow powerful weapons. (Like a hunter, Atlas etc.) Scions do it as well.

I know all about lag (play with it all the time) and I know what dying to lag looks/feels like. This was not a lag death. It was simply bam bam two shots, dead from health and shields.

This wouldn't have happened pre-patch, I hope you can understand why I feel the way I do. I promise I am not just trying to stir up trouble for you guys. :innocent: And believe me when I say I appreciate the work you guys put in, even if I don't always show it.

If course it didn't happen pre patch, it was the patch that has caused the problem....

[Shakespeare212]

Chris Schanche wrote...


We are all mostly happy with how gold is playing, and most of us play gold at home on our retail normal accounts, but are keeping an eye on things and haven't decided yet what if anything we are going to do there.

As primarily a Gold player, I have felt the change in experience as well.  Just my 2 cents.  As always, I appreciate Bioware's responsiveness.

[spudspot]

So the gates are there, but since the damage calculation has been moved to the host, playing off-host means you sometimes just don't see them but rather drop dead?

[cronshaw]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Being a client can lead to situations like in the original video this since there is a delay between getting up to date health information from the host. There could have been a delay between receiving a health bar update from the host that would have put you in your health gate, before the next update which killed you. In my opinion, it is not possible to conclusively say that the health or shield gates are not working on a client with a video since clients only see a simulation of the game. On Gold, there is only a 0.1 second gate, which is often shorter than the ping time between players. Even if the client doesn't "see" the gate, it is still happening on the host since the host has full authority on all damage systems.

Not to be a jerk or anything but what good is the gate if the client can't see it. You've got a mechanism that in a good portion of the games is not functioning practically for 3/4ths of the players. Perhaps the duration should be increased. 

[N7-RedFox]

There's one easy way to fix this - make shieldgate/healthgate duration last 0.3 secs on Gold and Platinum

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

I basically had put what Eric wrote in a reply earlier, and I was just about to post it when my computer chair neatly clicked off its power button as it rolled past..Why design a computer case with a smooth, easy to press button precisely at toe height?

The amount of times I have spent 10 mins writing detailed analysis's and in-depth counter arguments to heated debates only to have myself, or one of my sons, or my girlfriend accidentally turn it off on me!

Anyway - lag happens, and strangely enough in this game it can happen in spikes in games where I could have been playing for ten minutes easily with no lag, and then go back to normal. During these moments I have before had my health practically disappear without warning.

Lag theoretically could be more likely to happen after the new DLC, due to many things like having to load a new bunch of character models, powers, physics etc for each enemy faction on top of the ones that were already there, all the challenges and stats etc - the more info to process, the more chance of lag..perhaps that is why many have noticed it more after the patch?

[RileyCraven]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Being a client can lead to situations like in the original video this since there is a delay between getting up to date health information from the host. There could have been a delay between receiving a health bar update from the host that would have put you in your health gate, before the next update which killed you. In my opinion, it is not possible to conclusively say that the health or shield gates are not working on a client with a video since clients only see a simulation of the game. On Gold, there is only a 0.1 second gate, which is often shorter than the ping time between players. Even if the client doesn't "see" the gate, it is still happening on the host since the host has full authority on all damage systems.

What amazes me is that you guys don't see a problem with the simulation. If you know lag is an issue, why did you design a system that was not resilent to it? Seriously, this should be addressed regardless of whether the gates are working as intended or not.

Modifié par RileyCraven, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .

[OuterRim]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Being a client can lead to situations like in the original video this since there is a delay between getting up to date health information from the host. There could have been a delay between receiving a health bar update from the host that would have put you in your health gate, before the next update which killed you. In my opinion, it is not possible to conclusively say that the health or shield gates are not working on a client with a video since clients only see a simulation of the game. On Gold, there is only a 0.1 second gate, which is often shorter than the ping time between players. Even if the client doesn't "see" the gate, it is still happening on the host since the host has full authority on all damage systems.

Even if this is the case, and it is a lag issue, its happening way more often then it did pre-patch/dlc. And if only the host is going to consistently benefit from shield/healthgate then remove the mechanism entirely OR increase the gate time so this occurs only very rarely instead of consistently.

Is it possible there is more lag post DLC because of the extra traffic due to Challenge Point collection? If so, then increasing the gate time should help emensely.

[Zero132132]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Being a client can lead to situations like in the original video this since there is a delay between getting up to date health information from the host. There could have been a delay between receiving a health bar update from the host that would have put you in your health gate, before the next update which killed you. In my opinion, it is not possible to conclusively say that the health or shield gates are not working on a client with a video since clients only see a simulation of the game. On Gold, there is only a 0.1 second gate, which is often shorter than the ping time between players. Even if the client doesn't "see" the gate, it is still happening on the host since the host has full authority on all damage systems.

If that's the case, shouldn't the gate time be increased so that it actually shows up for players? If it's shorter than the ping time, that's kinda like taking a picture of something small enough that the camera's resolution can't capture it. It's basically functionally the same as not taking the picture, from the perspective of that object. I mean... if a game mechanic usually won't show up for 3/4 players, that seems like an issue, right? If it can't be increased without a patch, then I guess I can understand why it wouldn't be changed, but if the gate time is shorter than the ping time between host and off-host players, it's nearly the same as the mechanic not existing, at least some of the time.

[DiebytheSword]

I've noticed the health gate problem on PC, often. I couldn't understand why I was dying so often until I saw these threads popping up.

It drastically changes how the game is played, and something needs to be done.

Other than that, Bronze and Silver are costing me consumables, something that never happened before. I could play through a silver match, only using one or two items. That is no longer the case. I couldn't even extract on gold with Pubs for quite a while, only succeeding when every member of the team pulled their weight.

[xassantex]

^^ agree with RileyCraven .

If BW were hosting the games , maybe we wouldn't get that problem. We would only get disconnected ... but alive !

[Nitrocuban]

In the other (offficial) thread the devs stated the gates work fine but they are aware that something isn´t right and they have to investigate this further.

[count_4]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Being a client can lead to situations like in the original video this since there is a delay between getting up to date health information from the host. There could have been a delay between receiving a health bar update from the host that would have put you in your health gate, before the next update which killed you. In my opinion, it is not possible to conclusively say that the health or shield gates are not working on a client with a video since clients only see a simulation of the game. On Gold, there is only a 0.1 second gate, which is often shorter than the ping time between players. Even if the client doesn't "see" the gate, it is still happening on the host since the host has full authority on all damage systems.

Strange, when I said the exact same thing to OP, I got shouted at (as did others). Guess it has its benefits to have a BioWare sign below the avatar (apart from working at BioWare of course )...

Anyway, thanks for the post. Much appreciated.

Modifié par count_4, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .

[Anagorrax]

count_4 wrote...
Strange, when I said the exact same thing to OP, I got shouted at (as did others). Guess it has its benefits to have a BioWare sign below the avatar (apart from working at BioWare of course )...

Anyway, thanks for the post. Much appreciated.

Totally Agree.

and thanks to Eric as well

[DVS27t]

N7Kopper wrote...

"Stop denying the existence"
Their tests turned up nothing.
Clearly, yours did. It doesn't mean they're taking lying paste through an emergency induction port.

They test on LAN, on host, on, on, on.

REAL world testing is NEVER like testing INHOUSE.  I don't give a damn what they think with their testing.  I have been OHK'd by scions probably 10 times now with my GE.  Literally 100% health, 100% shields with NOTHING else shooting at me.  Straight to death.  IIRC, those deal 3000 damage so it could happen with no gates.

[Gamemako]

DVS27t wrote...

REAL world testing is NEVER like testing INHOUSE.  I don't give a damn what they think with their testing.  I have been OHK'd by scions probably 10 times now with my GE.  Literally 100% health, 100% shields with NOTHING else shooting at me.  Straight to death.  IIRC, those deal 3000 damage so it could happen with no gates.

And once I was running down the stairs on Glacier with my Kroguard -- pre-patch, mind you -- and just fell over dead, with nothing but a single Ravager to shoot at me (and he wasn't shooting at the time). Over 5000 damage in the blink of an eye. Strange things happen sometimes...

[Maker MEDA]

OP I love you man, this is the problem everybody is experiencing.

There is no way, no way health/ shield gate is working fine right now.