163 réponses à ce sujet

[Googleness]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Dragoons will generally not shoot you in cloak, though they will fire at the position you were last at.

yup. noitced that and it was a funny addition to the game as I can cloak in front of the mobs then quick roll aside and let them all rush to my last position while I shoot them from behind. 

[longgamma]

@ upinya. My pug gold success rate is pretty bad, 70 pc I guess unless I play a very strong build like claymore GI. I think what has changed is The health bar drops quickly - as evinced by Lord Sirians post earlier. It is on and off - as in two synced nemesis shots dropped me to the healtgate, but on other occasions I get dropped by centurions or assault troopers in a second. Believe it or not, I think collector captions have been my bane post the dlc. That seems like driving the difficulty not any new enemies like the bombers or dragoons. They only force you to move and you are thereby exposed to healthgate drops.

[Atheosis]

upinya slayin wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Other then the collectors being the most brutal faction, I didn't notice any change in the other 3?
What do they mean by spike in difficulty?

The shield gate change is a big part of it.  That and the outright murder of FBWGG.  Oh and Dragoons and Bombers generally creating more disruption to camping strategies.  For truly skilled players the difference in difficulty isn't huge, but for those who were using camping and shield gating to just barely get by it's pretty huge.

EditL: Oh and there's the fact that nearly everything executes now.  That's a big issue for those who tend to get downed a lot.

The shieldgate is a wierd gltich that BW cna't pinpoint. its nto an intentional thing taht was added so i don't count it. BW can't even locate the issue. It sucks sometimes but its not part fo teh difficulty. you cna't nerf a game around a glitch.
FBW is a million times better of a map right now. I actuall enjoy playing it again. If you could only do gold with FBW and Geth then you shouldn't have been playing it in the first place.
Dragoons are a joke. they die easy and can be dodged. I wish i was recording yesterday when on gold my MQE tok on 3 dragoons in a small area and dind't get shot or smashed once lol.you dodge them like you would a brute. there hornet is mroe of a threat at rnage then anything else they do.
If you get downd alot the difficulty isn't for you ro maybe try a new kit?
if you had to camp to get by then the difficulty wasn't for you. I'm not talking down to anyone but if you play a difficulty taht you can't win on w/o using a cheap tactic only for teh rewards then you have no reaosn to play becuas eit s a grind and not fun then

You seem to be suffering from a case of "unable to see things from the perspectives of others".  Personally I have no real issues with the slight bump in difficulty (and really don't even think Collectors are that bad), but I think it's obvious that the game got much harder for some people with the changes they've made.  Dragoons are obviously tougher than Guardians.  The farming of White is no longer viable.  Bombers and ungrabbable Pyros make camping against Geth much tougher.  The examples are there for you to see if you simply acknowledge that many people who don't have your skill have been regularly beating Gold for months and now can't.  Seriously dude, you need to develop the capacity to see things from other viewpoints.  If you can't do that then discussions become pointless, and generally devolve into little more than arguments. 

[Agueybana]

aryon69 wrote...

josehinojos wrote...

aryon69 wrote...

Get rid of or at least toning down stunlock would do wonders.

josehinojos wrote...

I love fighting Dragoons. Yes the cone out in mobs, I did recently find out that they are invincible when in the middle of smashing..

That isn't right.  I am able to BE them when they are using the yellow whips which will stagger them then all it takes is a few shots to the head to finish them off. 

When they first pull out the whips, yes they can be stunned.  But once they leap, my Ballistuc Blades couldn't stop them.

I will test it tonight but I want to swear I have stopped them mid jump when they are whipping with a biotic explosion.  I know just throw won't stop them.

It might be more an issue of the move taking them from their point of origin to their landing and not the space inbetween. I can shadow strike them while they leap and more often than not I'll go to where they where when they started the attack and hit them. If I kill them, they end up dead where they tried to leap from, I'm sure. It could just be the interaction between these two abilities, but it's the power I've used on them most often so far.

Are ballistic blades a projectile? That small delay to reach the target could let them get to the end of their leap, so where you fired is not where they are anymore.

[Frozen Mind]

Chris Schanche wrote...

We haven't changed cloak behavior, there are other difficulty concerns but this isn't one of them.

Yeah. Man hiding behind wall, turning cloak on, then passing by 2 rocket troopers that place 4 rockets in his Infiltrator's ass, then joining "I have no medi-gel" pile of bodies that he wanted to aid... Fair enough.

[smilinpig]

All I know is I have rarely gone into a ' relaxing ' bronze with gear. Last nite, I was way too tired to play gold, so I did a couple solo bronzes. I put a 30% shield boost on my Destroyer dude after I was downed early on in the first match. He was already set up w/ max shields as well as the 40% bonus...and I was downed numerous times even w/ the boost, in what seemed like an instant from full shields/health to dead. Last time I did a silver w/ this guy I had no shield boost, and I went down maybe 1 or 2 times. He's gone from Destroyer to the Destroyed since the update.
There is definitely something wrong.

[cgj]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Dragoons will generally not shoot you in cloak, though they will fire at the position you were last at. They are however melee creatures and follow normal melee creature behavior which attempts to seek out cloaked players if they decide they want to try to whip you. This roughly breaks down to, a melee creature attempting to melee a cloaked player will always find them and hit them as long as they stand still. However as long as the cloaked player keeps moving the melee creatures will not be able to find them.

We haven't changed cloak behavior, there are other difficulty concerns but this isn't one of them.

count the times you said melee creature and tell me this apply to the dragoon with his McQueen Hornet lvl 9001

[Agueybana]

Frozen Mind wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

We haven't changed cloak behavior, there are other difficulty concerns but this isn't one of them.

Yeah. Man hiding behind wall, turning cloak on, then passing by 2 rocket troopers that place 4 rockets in his Infiltrator's ass, then joining "I have no medi-gel" pile of bodies that he wanted to aid... Fair enough.

If you're the last man standing they'll be "peaking" too often for cloak to give you any real benefit in that case. It's always been that way. Geth espacially seem to peak more often than the rest. Then you have the issue of the rocket troopers firering from cover, than leaving cover, reseting their "stance" to walking or standing, and allowing them to refire immediately. This is a combination of isues, that can make the game, geth especially, aggravating.

(edit): Just wanted to ask if anypone else is noticing the illogical acts of mooks ignoring active and attacking players to bee-line out to downed and inactive PCs just to stomp them. Even while under fire from the other teammates, they'll stop shooting, and run over. Ignoring the people fireing shots and powers at them. It just makes no sense for them to ignore active players like that. I'd understand a lone wolf getting the boot, but not the guy in the midle of cross-fire, with active targets to notice nearby.

Modifié par Agueybana, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:38 .

[Joran Anduril]

Master Che wrote...

Some other things you may want to watch for:

1) The "mob" effect.  Hackzones get overrun faster now. 
2) You get "jumped out/in" L.A. gang style by multiple enemies.  Used to be that upon rezzing, you could make a mad dash out of the beat down circle.  Now, you get stun locked and beat like Rodney King at an LAPD picnic.
3) The incredible accuracy of enemies.  I seem to get taken down by standard trooper units quicker now.

This. Number 2 happened to me several times today playing Firebase Hydra.  Once I even got insta-killed by a Pretorian the INSTANT I got rezzed.  Yeah, bosses camping over your dead body to insta-kill you once you revive is super-fair.  

[GriM_AoD]

What spike in difficulty?

[Kristen Schanche]

cgj wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Dragoons will generally not shoot you in cloak, though they will fire at the position you were last at. They are however melee creatures and follow normal melee creature behavior which attempts to seek out cloaked players if they decide they want to try to whip you. This roughly breaks down to, a melee creature attempting to melee a cloaked player will always find them and hit them as long as they stand still. However as long as the cloaked player keeps moving the melee creatures will not be able to find them.

We haven't changed cloak behavior, there are other difficulty concerns but this isn't one of them.

count the times you said melee creature and tell me this apply to the dragoon with his McQueen Hornet lvl 9001

I stated pretty clearly that Dragoons only follow this behavior when attempting to perform their melee attack on you.  While firing their honet they behave with cloak the same way other ranged gun using characters do, which is firing at last known position.

Modifié par Chris Schanche, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:35 .

[JustinSonic]

YES! Thank you.

[SierraGHOSTN7]

To be honest, I jumped to Gold not long before release of Patch 1.04 and last DLC and now I can say that Gold is much harder now, than it has been before.
Not only because of adding Dragoon or Bomber.

[Nicegil2012]

Gold is fine where it is. Don't change it!!! noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... okay i'm good.

[Das Rouse]

aryon69 wrote...

josehinojos wrote...

aryon69 wrote...

Get rid of or at least toning down stunlock would do wonders.

josehinojos wrote...

I love fighting Dragoons. Yes the cone out in mobs, I did recently find out that they are invincible when in the middle of smashing..

That isn't right.  I am able to BE them when they are using the yellow whips which will stagger them then all it takes is a few shots to the head to finish them off. 

When they first pull out the whips, yes they can be stunned.  But once they leap, my Ballistuc Blades couldn't stop them.

I will test it tonight but I want to swear I have stopped them mid jump when they are whipping with a biotic explosion.  I know just throw won't stop them.

That could be the case though.  I am using ballistic blades only.  That could be why I can't stop them mid smash.  But then again, I can stop a Banshee SyncKill on a buddy with the BBs.  Let me know what you find. 

[mybudgee]

More challenge = more better

[hudder92]

Just a quick question.. Are enemies supposed to spawn inside the Hack Objective Circle? Had this happen yesterday on Rio. As fast as we could kill the enemies they just kept respawning inside the circle. It was insane. And this was on Bronze.

Something eslse I have noticed which is a decrease in difficulty is Bronze extraction wave. I thought the enemy budget was supposed to be endless for the extraction wave. It seems like lately we have been running out of enemies. It used to be you kill a banshee and another one would spawn.. This hasn't been the case lately. 

Modifié par hudder92, 16 octobre 2012 - 05:56 .

[Madeline Lightning]

Ever since the last update everything sees me when I'm cloaked and that was not the case before the last update. I have only played the shadow and female human infiltrator, so I don't know about other characters but definitely happens on those too. As well as the broken shadow strike vs atlas. Enemies track me cloaked before they ever see me, and its very precise not " firing from my last known position" stuff. I'm cloaked before I even make contact or they spawn in some cases. Definitely never, and I stress never, happened before the last update.

[upinya slayin]

hudder92 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Other then the collectors being the most brutal faction, I didn't notice any change in the other 3?
What do they mean by spike in difficulty?

So you haven't noticed enemies spawning right next to you then? I've not seen this prior to the last patch. Now it happens almost every game. And I'm not talking about one or two enemies.. I'm talking about whole mobs of them.

its always been there espicially during hacks and speed runs its most evident. i've killed liek 8 banshees on a wave 3 gold hac before cause they kept spawning in the hack. same on a wave 10 rio plaatinum when enemies were spawing in teh hack zone just as fast as we could nuike them. and this was all pre patch and pre DLC

[cgj]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Dragoons will generally not shoot you in cloak, though they will fire at the position you were last at. They are however melee creatures and follow normal melee creature behavior which attempts to seek out cloaked players if they decide they want to try to whip you. This roughly breaks down to, a melee creature attempting to melee a cloaked player will always find them and hit them as long as they stand still. However as long as the cloaked player keeps moving the melee creatures will not be able to find them.

We haven't changed cloak behavior, there are other difficulty concerns but this isn't one of them.

i wasn't talking about cloak

but about that !
they are melee creature yet they can snipe you from across the map and bring you to health gate in one burst
i'd like a definition of melee creature

Modifié par cgj, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:03 .

[upinya slayin]

longgamma wrote...

@ upinya. My pug gold success rate is pretty bad, 70 pc I guess unless I play a very strong build like claymore GI. I think what has changed is The health bar drops quickly - as evinced by Lord Sirians post earlier. It is on and off - as in two synced nemesis shots dropped me to the healtgate, but on other occasions I get dropped by centurions or assault troopers in a second. Believe it or not, I think collector captions have been my bane post the dlc. That seems like driving the difficulty not any new enemies like the bombers or dragoons. They only force you to move and you are thereby exposed to healthgate drops.

If you are saying 70% is your sucess rate then i don't think tahts bad at all. If you can succedd 50% of teh times taht is good. If your dropping below 50 tehn you should drop a layer down n the difficulty notch

[Simbacca]

upinya slayin wrote...

...Dragoons are a joke. they die easy and can be dodged. I wish i was recording yesterday when on gold my MQE tok on 3 dragoons in a small area and dind't get shot or smashed once lol.you dodge them like you would a brute. there hornet is mroe of a threat at rnage then anything else they do...

This!  I don't understand how people have been complaining so much about Dragoons.  When I see 3 of them coming at me, I think "ooo, three easy kills".  When they want to melee or smash they run straight at you, making it really easy to land a couple headshots (which usually kills them, they really don't have that much armor).  Smash is very easy to sidestep, just about an ability staggers them (more abilites than what work on most armored targets), and they die quickly.

Pugs complain because they tend to go to one area on a map and never leave it.  With the recent changes it has gotten harder to hold-out in any one area the entire match (funny/sad thing is on most maps they end up always choosing the worst area for it, Giant and Hydra immediately come to mind), necessitating more flanking tactics as was the developers original intent with gameplay.  They get tunnel vision trying to squeeze as many kills/points as they can in that one big cluster before their teammates (who have been firing at the exact same cluster the whole time, all with the same tunnel vision out of desperate point chasing) so they don't see the 3 Dragoons coming from their flank, the only time they're really a danger.

Yes Dragoons move very fast, this makes up for just how fragile they truly are.  If you see them coming, they're nothing.  And that's why people complain about them, because they are not used to keeping their head on a swivel, they aren't checking their surroundings every couple seconds like they should.  They feel it's 'cheap' to be quickly killed but something they didn't yet see.  They never think 'oh maybe if I wasn't staring in the same direction for the last minute...'

Modifié par Simbacca, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:10 .

[NM_Che56]

Chris Schanche wrote...

cgj wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Dragoons will generally not shoot you in cloak, though they will fire at the position you were last at. They are however melee creatures and follow normal melee creature behavior which attempts to seek out cloaked players if they decide they want to try to whip you. This roughly breaks down to, a melee creature attempting to melee a cloaked player will always find them and hit them as long as they stand still. However as long as the cloaked player keeps moving the melee creatures will not be able to find them.

We haven't changed cloak behavior, there are other difficulty concerns but this isn't one of them.

count the times you said melee creature and tell me this apply to the dragoon with his McQueen Hornet lvl 9001

I stated pretty clearly that Dragoons only follow this behavior when attempting to perform their melee attack on you.  While firing their honet they behave with cloak the same way other ranged gun using characters do, which is firing at last known position.

I never noticed they had hornets.  All I can see is the jump ropes of death and they river dance lunge at me

could we at least get an 8 bit Mario *boing* as they leap? 

[Googleness]

mybudgee wrote...

More challenge = more better

but challenge need some logic, on silver you get 3 possesd scions spaming nades at same time (18 nades!) how you deal with it?

[JAMiAM]

Bioware, please do not overcorrect with reducing the difficulty. Yes, the game did get a little more difficult with the last patch, and the release of the Retaliation DLC, but that is a good thing.

People really should dial their pride back a notch or two, and realize that they might just need to dial down their difficulty levels if they can't play at the same levels they had gotten used to. New enemy types, new hazard conditions, and new map layouts require a learning curve. Suck it up, and learn the new tactics you might need to adopt, in order to consistently survive, at a lower level.